Uniform query

[matei]

Hi all,

Would any of you know what kind of uniforms B-29 and B-24 crew wore during missions? I'm trying to do a bit of research, as my grandfather flew in both during WWII.

I don't think that the B-29 crew were issued leather jackets received by other types of bomber crew (or even fighter pilots), as the cabins on the 29 were pressurised.

I remember my grandfather telling me that he had a kind of boiler suit when he flew in the 29, but it was a long time ago and I was a little kid... regarding the B-24, he wasn't in that for very long, as he was initially a tail gunner and didn't like the assignment at all. I don't know how he managed to get assigned to the B-29, but he was a clever guy.

Both were a step up from his first job, he was the guy who carried the baseplate of a mortar.

 

[H.Johnson]

Matei,

If you PM me your address I will send you a good book on the B-29 in and after WW2, with photographs of the crews, etc.

 

[MPicciotto]

Most common I've seen is the khaki flight suit similar to this one:

http://whatpriceglory.com/pic/ans31.jpg

Matt

 

[olkev]

I did a Google search for "B-29 crews" and then went to the "Images" tab. There were a lot of pics of crews in khakis standing in front of their planes.

There was one pic of a co-pilot pulling a lever in the center console, apparently while in taxiing I think, and he was wearing khaki and a green crush cap.

It looks like they had khaki flightsuits, the usual survival equipment, i.e. parachutes, vest, etc. but none of the cold weather, shearling pants and coats like you would find with B-17 crews.

 

[matei]

Thanks guys for the helpful info.

I remember that he said he gave his flight suit away after the war, he didn't think anyone would ever want it.

I never thought to ask him about his B-24 experience, if he had a flight jacket or not.

I do have his dog tags, some of his medals and his dress uniform jacket.

He started off carrying the base plate of a mortar, which must've been difficult for a small man like him. After seeing combat first hand, and having to crawl over corpses, he looked for a way to get out of the trenches.

He took a few exams and was selected to be a tail gunner in a B-24. I don't know how long that was for, as shortly after this he started training as a pilot. (I didn't know that enlisted men could make this jump). Until recently I didn't even know that he did this, it wasn't until I spoke to my grandmother that I found out.

The gov't changed their mind and said that they no longer needed pilots, they needed aerial gunners... and he was was sent to Cuba, where he trained as the top turret gunner on a B-29... and then on to the Pacific, where he finished the war in that role.

 

[Cigarband]

I remember that he said he gave his flight suit away after the war, he didn't think anyone would ever want it.

Years ago I worked with a former WWII US Navy Pilot. (F4U Corsairs) He told me some great stories about his service. I asked him what had become of his old uniforms. He said that when he returned to San Diego for mustering out, the pilots were allowed to keep their Class A and duty uniforms, but were ordered to turn in their Leather Jackets and the watches the Navy had issued them, as they were considered NAVY PROPERTY! He said the pilots in his Squadron refused to do so, and in a reaction to the "never-ending Navy Bullshit," made a bonfire out of their jackets and smashed their watches. The War being over, the Navy let it go.:eusa_doh:

 

[cco23i]

Seems all the shots of 29 crews they are in khaki shirt and trousers with either their overseas cap or khaki "50 mission crusher". With their mae west and comm headset and seems that's it.

scott

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Hi Matei, Welcome! Keep in mind that the B-24 was 1930's technology and unpressurized. For any mission at altitude, the crew had to wear heated electric suits, flight suits, parachute harness, flak vest and flight jacket. Add to that the leather flying helmet, goggles and oxygen mask and, most probably, a flak helmet.

All that changed with the 1940's technology of the B-29 Super Fortress. The B-29 was pressurized and the requirements for high altitude flight changed. Primarily due to heated compartments and the oxygen pressurizing those compartments. Couple that with Gen. LeMay's decision to abandon high altitude bombing against Japan and the dynamics changed considerably. Those PTO crews then flew in shirt sleeves and ball caps - thus the pictures of some pretty casual looking airmen photographed with their big 'Super Forts'.

-dixon cannon

 

[MPicciotto]

I don't know about the B-24. But in the Pacific and then in the CBI also the B-25 was often flown low level. Like Treetop level. The B-25 wasn't pressurized or heated either but I have seen lots of pictures of aircrew in short sleeves. Of course the B-25 was a smaller bird and with the "Porcupine Nose" variant with a half dozen forward facing .50 cals or with the forward facing cannon was used as one BIG close air support platform.

Matt

 

[matei]

Very interesting info indeed.

Thanks guys!

 

[Lone_Ranger]

Hi Matei, Welcome! Keep in mind that the B-24 was 1930's technology and unpressurized. For any mission at altitude, the crew had to wear heated electric suits, flight suits, parachute harness, flak vest and flight jacket. Add to that the leather flying helmet, goggles and oxygen mask and, most probably, a flak helmet.

All that changed with the 1940's technology of the B-29 Super Fortress. The B-29 was pressurized and the requirements for high altitude flight changed. Primarily due to heated compartments and the oxygen pressurizing those compartments. Couple that with Gen. LeMay's decision to abandon high altitude bombing against Japan and the dynamics changed considerably. Those PTO crews then flew in shirt sleeves and ball caps - thus the pictures of some pretty casual looking airmen photographed with their big 'Super Forts'.

-dixon cannon

Ditto.

B-24 gear, would be similar, if not the same as what the B-17 crews would be wearing. Aft of the radio compartment, would be not only unpressurized, but unheated, as well. Requiring bulky electrically heated flight suits.

B-29's would not require the same gear. Also, remember the Army stopped purchasing leather A-2's around mid-1943. So, by the time the B-29's were being deployed the crews would probably have been issued the cloth B-15's, unless they got lucky enough to get an A-2.

 

[p51]

People seriously misunderstand the difference between standing on the ground at Guam in the summer time and flying at over 20,000 feet. It can get darned cold that high up, no matter how close to the equator you are. Most bomber crewmen carried plenty of warm clothes for those flights. Just because a B-29 was pressurized, it didn’t mean it was warm up there or that things were pleasant if it depressurized (which happened all the time for all kinds of reasons). You wouldn’t dare get caught that high up of the plane lost pressure and you then got hit with freezing temperatures wearing only cotton pants and a shirt! No, they carried much of the same cold weather gear that the crews flying elsewhere did. By 1945, you would have started seeing B-10 and B-15 jackets being carried by them as they’d been around for a while by then and most of those crews had come from the states where they could have obtained them.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

People seriously misunderstand the difference between standing on the ground at Guam in the summer time and flying at over 20,000 feet. It can get darned cold that high up, no matter how close to the equator you are. Most bomber crewmen carried plenty of warm clothes for those flights. Just because a B-29 was pressurized, it didn’t mean it was warm up there or that things were pleasant if it depressurized (which happened all the time for all kinds of reasons). You wouldn’t dare get caught that high up of the plane lost pressure and you then got hit with freezing temperatures wearing only cotton pants and a shirt! No, they carried much of the same cold weather gear that the crews flying elsewhere did. By 1945, you would have started seeing B-10 and B-15 jackets being carried by them as they’d been around for a while by then and most of those crews had come from the states where they could have obtained them.

Hi P-51, In January 1945 Gen. Curtis Lemay took over the 21st Bomber Command against Japan using the B-29 Super Fortress. He immediately switched tactics to low altitude fire bombing as the previous high altitude bombing efforts were ineffective and costly. From that point forward the B-29 crews were relieved of high altitude (ie, 20,000 feet) flight levels and the need for high altitude gear. The South Pacific being what it is, shirt-sleeved khaki's and light weight caps were the order of the day from then to the end of hostilities.

A good reference is the footage of 'Enola Gay' and Col. Tibbet's crews (as well as 'Bock's Car") during the run up to the Hiroshima (Nagasaki) missions. Granted the A-Bomb drop itself was from 30,000 feet.

-dixon cannon

 

[olkev]

Here is something that may be helpful:

Combat Flying Clothing: Army Air Forces Clothing During World War II

The USAAF Airman: Service & Survival 1941-45

 

[p51]

From that point forward the B-29 crews were relieved of high altitude (ie, 20,000 feet) flight levels and the need for high altitude gear. The South Pacific being what it is, shirt-sleeved khaki's and light weight caps were the order of the day from then to the end of hostilities.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I’ve talked with dozens of B-29 crew vets over the years and have plenty of photos and original jackets from the time period. While I do agree that they weren’t bundled up like they were in Europe, even at low levels it can get awfully chilly even in tropic temperatures (been there myself in several WW2 aircraft in Florida). While not all crewmen did it, plenty of them brought on warmer clothing just in case it got a little cold up there. But yes, once they were very close to the ground or off the planes, they wore very light stuff.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

P51, Disagree if you will; I just did a Google image search of B-29 crews and found lots of shirt sleeved khaki guys but nary a high-altitude kit amongst them. Again, in the LeMay era at low altitude the warmer flying gear was no longer necessary for routine missions. That's not to say that there weren't other missions that called for high-altitude flight, but the Super Fortress being a heated pressurized cabin, did not require high altitude flying gear, and certainly nothing like was necessary in the Fortress and Liberator at altitude. That fact of pressurized heated compartments in the new SuperFort was a welcome relief to the crews that flew them.

-dixon cannon

 

[olkev]

Per Wikipedia -
The crew enjoyed, for the first time in a bomber, full-pressurization comfort. This first-ever cabin pressure system for an Allied production bomber was developed for the B-29 by Garrett AiResearch. The nose and the cockpit were pressurized, but the designers were faced with deciding whether to have bomb bays that were not pressurized, between fore and aft pressurized sections, or a fully pressurized fuselage with the need to de-pressurize to drop their loads. The decision was taken to have a long tunnel over the two bomb bays so that crews could crawl back and forth between the fore and aft sections, with both areas and the tunnel pressurized. The bomb bays were not pressurized.

http://www.pwam.org/b29peach.htm
A favorite with crews, due to pressurized and heated crew compartments.

Let's Look Inside a B-29 - Popular Science, March 1945

Nuclear Files. ORG
PRESSURIZED CREW COMPARTMENTS

For the first time on a combat aircraft, heated, pressurized compartments allowed crewmen to fly at high altitude without bulky clothing and oxygen masks. A pressurized tunnel ran above the aircraft's two bomb bays and connected the fore and aft compartments. The tail gunner's pressurized position remained isolated from the rest of the aircraft.

I did a Google search on the B-29 related pressurization failure and did not come up with anything other than a related structural failure. Perhaps gunfire.

It seems, based on what I've read, the need for high altitude clothing was the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Wink, wink! Nod, nod! Say no more! (LOL)

 

[cco23i]

Also with the pressurization air coming from off a stage of the motor you had a "mixing valve" on the airplane in order to "warm up" the airplane, very simular to what we have now.

Scott

 

[p51]

P51, Disagree if you will; I just did a Google image search of B-29 crews and found lots of shirt sleeved khaki guys but nary a high-altitude kit amongst them. Again, in the LeMay era at low altitude the warmer flying gear was no longer necessary for routine missions. That's not to say that there weren't other missions that called for high-altitude flight, but the Super Fortress being a heated pressurized cabin, did not require high altitude flying gear, and certainly nothing like was necessary in the Fortress and Liberator at altitude. That fact of pressurized heated compartments in the new SuperFort was a welcome relief to the crews that flew them.

-dixon cannon

You can go with Wikipedia. I’ll go with what the vets who were there had to say and their photos which back them up.