U.S. Wings...fLying LoW, sadLy...

[johnnyjohnny]

being the rah rah guy of buying U.S., and liking uswings cuts and general craftsmanship, i was rather saddened by how my transaction to buy a g-1 milspec jacket there ended...

coming off of having purchased a uswings a-2 milspec, very beautiful in cut and craftsmanship, except for the end seam thread that was untied and sticking up like an unshaven whisker, i had purchased a g-1 milspec about a month ago

the first jacket i got was chronicled here, having had some inexperienced person at the factory punch the plastic tag attacher through the leather on the sleeve (not between the seam as uswings normally does)

the jacket was quickly exchanged with numerous apologies, no charge for sending it back...

i then decided i needed a size up...strangely, uswings g-1 sizes are the equivalent of being one entire size smaller than their a-2 sizes (milspec in both)...so i sent the second jacket back for a size up

the g-1 i got back didn't have a hole punched through the leather, but the pockets were slightly different lengths from the ribbing, and when inspecting this i noticed a 1/4" tear in the leather between one of the pocket bottoms and the ribbing...of course i sent it back...and while this was strike two on factory defects, i was willing to go for an exchange...i just asked them to inspect the jacket they sent so this would not happen again...

today i was informed uswings had refunded my purchase price, only of the jacket, NoT the shipping, and refused to do another exchange given MY history of purchasing

kind of blown away since i had paid not only for the original shipping on this final jacket (second one with defects) but had paid to send it back...both adding up to $40 out of pocket...their excuse was that i had removed the tags from the jacket, even though i had included them back with the jacket when returning it...they warned me that they COULd have charged me their 15percent restocking fee for daring to remove the tags (even though they were included on the return)...

despite being the guy who believes onLy u.s. manufacturers should be patronized when making current production military spec jackets, i think that uswings has crash landed on this...even with their recent 'sale' price on the g-1 of $300, and their pricey $20 shipping, their jackets are not enough of a deal to accept tears, label tag punctures, and then be nicked for the shipping both ways on returning a defected jacket

u.s. wings, though i love you for being one of the few u.s. manufacturers of milspec gear, i take you off my list of suppliers...if this is how you operate when dealing with your own factory defects, i'm happy to go to gibson and barnes (flightsuits.com), or the seller of the u.s. govt authorized supplier of current a-2 and g-1 jackets, excelled, at leathercoatsetc.com...and, even though usings.com sells cockpitusa, i'd buy cockpitusa at legendarusa.com, acejackets.com, or the least expensive, flyingtigerssurplus.com...all supplying cockpitusa jackets much less than uswings...cockpitusa has, in my experience, great quality and the most superb customer service, having had issues dealt with personally by the head of the company

sorry uswings.com, i was rooting for you...spending my own bucks to do so, but i got hit by some rather ugLy friendLy fire from you guys and i ain't comin' back

still a supporter of u.s. made, just a fan now of discretion,
johnnyjohnny

 

[Senicko_Spain]

Sorry to hear that story Johnny, but they are the fast food of the jacket industry, one step away from a mall jacket in my opinion. This is the crap that burns my a$$.

The same thing happens here in Spain but on a smaller scale. I try to buy local (her in town) to support the local vendors instead of going to the big stores in the city. Well, the same BS happens when I go to exchange an item for whatever reason. I get excuse after excuse and then in the end they don't want to issue me a refund. Now, I shop at the larger chain stores, at least I know I can take something back if need be without receiving the 3rd degree.

You get what you pay for Johnny, and a 300 buck USW G-1 IMO is about 250 bucks more than it's worth. Get yourself a good jacket, Eastman, Aero, RM, GW, etc. GW is US made, it'll take awhile from what I hear but they are very well made. Stay away from these so called authentic jacket makers, they are anything but authentic. I hate to say this as well, but G&B falls in this same category, they just don't cut the mustard.[huh]

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

U.S. Wings has really gone down hill it's true. I went there in early May,...a 40 mile drive one way, to pick up a jacket for a friend who lives in Montana to do some nose art it on for her. Naturally I print up my brochure and business card to leave with them. They were in the process of moving, but I talked with the manager about the possibility of perhaps promoting each other. I can recommend them for jackets, they recommend me for nose art, and it's all good. The manager seemed agreeable enough and assured me that he would run it by the owner and the owner would of course think it a great idea.
Not.
A few months and a few emails later it looks as though I will recommend another manufacturer and not have to drive all that way for jackets of flagging quality. The jacket I picked up was goat skin with no obvious defects, but for the price the leather was quite thin. Nothing like jackets I got there only a few years ago. The employee turnover seems high there also, as every time I go there, there is someone new behind the counter. Customer service of course will suffer if employees don't last.

 

[Mojave Jack]

Ah! I see it's time for my regular anti-US Wings rant!

Don't buy from them! Ever! They're customer service is one of the worst in the business, and that includes the curmudgeons and grouches that we all know and love from certain re-enactor suppliers.

The thing that chaps my behind is exactly what you mention, JohnnyJohnny. they claim to be All American, support the troops, and all that. Yay! And yet they screwed me on a return while I was deployed in support of Iraqi Freedom! Yeah, some support there, Sgt Hack. Thanks.

As a result of one of my worst customer experiences ever with US Wings, they will never, ever, get my business back again. And, as I promised them when they screwed me, I will never miss a chance to knock them, either.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

u.s. wings, though i love you for being one of the few u.s. manufacturers of milspec gear, i take you off my list of suppliers...if this is how you operate when dealing with your own factory defects, i'm happy to go to gibson and barnes (flightsuits.com),

I can't speak from experience on US Wings service (I got mine second hand), but I feel one word in there defense is needed. You should have noticed the size issue with the first jacket, requiring only one exchange. :eusa_doh:

That does not excuse them refusing to do an exchange, especially on a defective jacket. However, it is becoming common business practice for customers to foot the bill on return shipping, even on defects. It's not right, but Wings is not alone in doing this.

Also, there was a recent occurrence with a member of another board dealing with Gibson and Barnes. They may make a better jacket, but "your history" would inspire similar problems, it seems.

Simple fact is, the customer generally does not get the respect he/she once commanded. Your decision to walk away and publicize you experience is the only way to fight back.

 

[bobjones]

I can't speak from experience on US Wings service (I got mine second hand), but I feel one word in there defense is needed. You should have noticed the size issue with the first jacket, requiring only one exchange. :eusa_doh:

That does not excuse them refusing to do an exchange, especially on a defective jacket. However, it is becoming common business practice for customers to foot the bill on return shipping, even on defects. It's not right, but Wings is not alone in doing this.

Also, there was a recent occurrence with a member of another board dealing with Gibson and Barnes. They may make a better jacket, but "your history" would inspire similar problems, it seems.

Simple fact is, the customer generally does not get the respect he/she once commanded. Your decision to walk away and publicize you experience is the only way to fight back.

Are we allowed to reference other web forums? I can post a link to the thread at the webforum referred to by Not-Bogart13, but don't want to violate the rules here.

I did recently get a G&B Expedition, and found their customer service to be excellent, particularly the salesperson I worked with, Jessica Wood.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

customer service...

thanks for all the feedback on uswings and other experiences...

i'll say this, i don't like knocking anyone...especially someone with sgt. hack's background as a soldier, and building his business, uswings...yes, i read his cowritten bio that was included with one of my jackets awhile back, and i think a lot of the guy

but as a consumer, i have to react to downright bad service, rude service, and other problems with the product...the sizing issue is really notable with them...their size 44 milspec a-2 (which one would expect to be trimmer sizewise as is usually the case) is 26.5" armpit to armpit...that's basically a size 50 to 52...and bizarrely their size 44 milspec g-1 is 24 inches armpit to armpit...that's 5" less around the chest for the same milspec size...

so just buying their product sizewise is like going into Wonderland (alice of)...

so hence my need to return their product one time on size alone...

but the last time i returned the jacket it had a rip in the leather from the factory, so i don't see any reason to have me pay shipping insured back to them, and the original shipping charges...it's very rude, especially when i was willing to try one more exchange to see if they could get it right, or fail and get me 3 defected jackets on the same order

i won't go into again the differences between uswings and cockpitusa, just to say it's enormous (any problems i've ever had with cockpitusa, whether i bought from them or a website reseller, have been more than graciously corrected...including giving me a 20percent discount on a $430 jacket i got that had leather cracks, and then simply exchanging the jacket for me and never asking for the discount back even though i brought it to their attention...it may not be de rigeur for them to handle exchanges that way, but it shows the customer is what's on their mind...the owner of the company handled that one for me)

as mentioned, i've never gotten a uswings product that didn't at least have misaligned pockets, or at least a seam thread that was left untied off...but i had liked the product enough to at least overlook the minor defects...but rips in leather, sales tags punched through the leather, and then charging double shipping for having to return something like that, is wrong

sgt. hack is a very impressive individual from what i know about him...what he's built as a business is impressive...it would be sad to see his legacy be that he built a company that is the epitomy of a bad producer/supplier of an iconic American product

i hope he gets rid of the management that made the decision to rip me for shipping on the second defected jacket i got on the same order...and i hope he can clear up the production problems with his mainstream jackets, the milspec a-2 and g-1, so that it's rare to get one without some sort of problem

he's succeeded, mostly selling to people who are not that schooled (if at all) on mil jackets...if he can change what that company is becoming, he might get back the people as customers who know what a military jacket is really supposed to be like...and the customer service to go along with it...

sad thing is, as this discussion has shown, a lot of times in business you don't get a second chance...i've purchased from uswings a number of times despite problems with previous orders...for me, this last treatment burned the bridges for me as a customer...i do hope things change over there though

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Are we allowed to reference other web forums? I can post a link to the thread at the webforum referred to by Not-Bogart13, but don't want to violate the rules here.

I don't think there's a policy against it. I just didn't think that rather long thread was necessary to my intent. But I've seen links to other forums before.

 

[Spitfire]

Sgt. Hack has a history. Big deal - so what?
It's not his history you are buying - you are buying products.
And if they are not good, the service is no good - his military past doesn't help one bit.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

maKes me wonDer.......

It's not his history you are buying - you are buying products.
And if they are not good, the service is no good - his military past doesn't help one bit.

Keep political statements out please

(couldn't resist...and that's not necessarily my point of view)

as for uswings, i think what is happening is the military jacket industry is stratifying even more and more...you have your top echelon, purist/luxury purveyors, goodwear, eastman, lostworld, and others (not stating approval or disapproval of any, i believe that is their category)

then you have the middle ground at an affordable price which has broken into two groups...first, those that offer a well-made and militarily authentic product with customer service to back it up (tho they may also offer some civi models of jackets, etc), and they often are or have been suppliers to govt personnel either through the military, px system, or authorized as a govt contractor...i'd definitely put cockpitusa there, gibson barnes, uswings, excelled (available through leathercoatsetc), what was cooper (now out of existence)

however, from the second group you have producers who risk falling into a third category, which are mass producers of bubble gum for those who don't know a difference...it seems uswings is straddling that category...they produce a lot of stuff that is basically bubble gum, such as a-2 jackets with mall/full fit and side pockets not even hidden, but slashed into the jacket next to the patch pocket...they make indy jackets, and they make a g-2 jacket that i actually purchased, and it didn't even have a windflap to correspond to the specs of what these jackets were...

uswings does offer the milspec jackets, but as i've stated, they always seem to have flaws, and the customer service is superficially good, but caves when there's a real issue...so they are at high risk of being the leader of a third tier of military jacket suppliers that take advantage of the history, the status of such apparel, but lower it to the lowest denominator

as cockpitusa showed after their descent into the latter portion of avirex's run ('producing' a-2 jackets made in korea with 2-piece backs, etc), they can come back and be very impressive

 

[bobjones]

G&B's Expedition (Indy jacket) is the best in the business, IMHO.

 

[PADDY]

Sorry to hear about this Johnny.

None of us here who love a good classic jacket like it when either the jacket doesn't live up to our expectations as a customer nor when the customer service fails us at some point [huh]

I empathise with what you are going through, as the law of averages will tell you that the more jackets you buy, the greater the likelihood of something going wrong at some point.

You'd be surprised just 'who' in the vintage/classic jacket industry reads the 'feed back' from consumers in here (currently as of writing, 9000+ members is a fair amount of buying power). So the points you raise will no doubt filter through.

It's also as important to sing the praises of companies when they deserve it, which I'm glad to see happens in here too.

But the point of dissatisfaction has been made pretty clear 'here' now on this issue to USW. And I'm sure you've dropped them a line to the same effect.

Christmas/Thanksgiving is around the corner now. Why not start saving for the treat of a nice condition second-hand, broken-in premium maker jacket? some nice ones coming up on other vintage jacket sites and on Edward Bays Now there's an idea

 

[Senicko_Spain]

Why not start saving for the treat of a nice condition second-hand, broken-in premium maker jacket? some nice ones coming up on other vintage jacket sites and on Edward Bays Now there's an idea

Like my $200 ELC RW