U.S. Fedoras, Circa 1919

[Marc Chevalier]

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For the historically-minded among you, a trip back to 1919.

Note the pinches in the crowns. Do I see a "Rough Rider crease" in no. 15?

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I was watching one of those company movies produced by Eastern Air Lines starring Arthur Godfrey and a Lockheed Constellation, and WWI ace Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker was in it, and he wore a hat that looked exactly like #13, top left hand corner.

The movie was dated 1953, and they showed Capt. Rickenbacker getting out of a WWI Spad fighter.

 

[DOUGLAS]

Beautiful hats, I would take all of them but I really like #22, #17 and # 18. Do you think that they were sold with the pinches already in place or advertized them like that just to show possibilities? Personally I think they had to be open crowned.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I agree that they weren't sold with the pinches already in place. Most of those pinches (especially nos. 17, 20 and 22) look too "relaxed" to have been set in professionally.

In 1919, at least, fedoras were meant to look slouchy and hand-molded.

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[DOUGLAS]

I can almost feel the felt being pinched with my hand. I was born in the wrong time. Number 22 looks very similar to the type of hat offered by Dirty Billys Hats.

 

[Joel Tunnah]

If you bashed them differently, these hats look like they could be right out of the early 60's - same brim and ribbon widths. Funny.
Thanks for posting it.

Joel

 

[deanglen]

Love the hats! Love the time period! Convinced it confirms a theory I have about fedoras and their origins. Great post! Much appreciated, Marc!

dean

 

[Marc Chevalier]

My pleasure! But now you have me really curious about your theory ...


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[deanglen]

My pleasure! But now you have me really curious about your theory ...


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It's no great thing as theories go! I just think that fedoras represent a developement of turn of the century, 19th to 20th, headgear that brought some of the western/campaign hat features to civilian wear, considering that the Spanish-American War, and the Indian Wars previously had involved Americans in some uniquely domestic developements, and the campaign hat style provided a distinctive American image to men's wear, provided by those who served in the military, and those that liked the aura of heroism that the look presented. Rough Riders indeed! Wrong, probably, but I see ads like the hats you presented in your post, and even you detected a "Rough Rider" crease to #15. And the slight "montana peak" to #13. It's speculative, of me, but I wonder. Of course, to know what was going on in Europe for men's hats of the same period would probably show the deficiency of the theory. But even there, the defeat of Spain in 1898, the Great White Fleet of 1905 promoted American influence. And other projections of American presence might have had an influence on style. I don't really know. Does anyone in the lounge? If they were even interested, I suppose.

dean

 

[lenj]

No 13

One of our members posted a pic of James Dean wearing a style of hat he had never seen before - a fedora with a double bash.

No. 13 seems to be the model for that style - one unfamiliar to me as well, and I am no teen.

lenj

 

[astaire]

A very fascinating theory

It's no great thing as theories go! I just think that fedoras represent a developement of turn of the century, 19th to 20th, headgear that brought some of the western/campaign hat features to civilian wear, considering that the Spanish-American War, and the Indian Wars previously had involved Americans in some uniquely domestic developements, and the campaign hat style provided a distinctive American image to men's wear, provided by those who served in the military, and those that liked the aura of heroism that the look presented. Rough Riders indeed! Wrong, probably, but I see ads like the hats you presented in your post, and even you detected a "Rough Rider" crease to #15. And the slight "montana peak" to #13. It's speculative, of me, but I wonder. Of course, to know what was going on in Europe for men's hats of the same period would probably show the deficiency of the theory. But even there, the defeat of Spain in 1898, the Great White Fleet of 1905 promoted American influence. And other projections of American presence might have had an influence on style. I don't really know. Does anyone in the lounge? If they were even interested, I suppose.

dean

I read this twice since i was so fascinated by your interesting theory. I think there are many in the lounge who would like to hear your theory develop.

I think you should keep sharing it with the rest of us!

I know you are suggesting american influence, but can you make a parallel theory in men's hat development in europe, starting with the top hat?

 

[Wolfmanjack]

I just think that fedoras represent a developement of turn of the century, 19th to 20th, headgear that brought some of the western/campaign hat features to civilian wear, considering that the Spanish-American War, and the Indian Wars previously had involved Americans in some uniquely domestic developements, and the campaign hat style provided a distinctive American image to men's wear, provided by those who served in the military, and those that liked the aura of heroism that the look presented. Rough Riders indeed! Wrong, probably, but I see ads like the hats you presented in your post, and even you detected a "Rough Rider" crease to #15. And the slight "montana peak" to #13. It's speculative, of me, but I wonder.

Dean, here is a bit of 'evidence' to support your theory: Look at this pic of John Wayne in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. Doesn't that look a good deal like No. 13?

Have a look at this other pic from She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and you'll see several of the shapes in Marc's post.

Dean, your postings have really whet my appetite for a hat with a "Rough Rider" crease that I could wear in the field for my wildlife research.

 

[Lauren]

Oh my gosh, I love hat #15!

 

[deanglen]

Oh my gosh, I love hat #15!

Me, too!

dean

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

Hi everyone!

It's no great thing as theories go! I just think that fedoras represent a developement of turn of the century, 19th to 20th, headgear that brought some of the western/campaign hat features to civilian wear, considering that the Spanish-American War, and the Indian Wars previously had involved Americans in some uniquely domestic developements, and the campaign hat style provided a distinctive American image to men's wear, provided by those who served in the military, and those that liked the aura of heroism that the look presented. Rough Riders indeed! Wrong, probably, but I see ads like the hats you presented in your post, and even you detected a "Rough Rider" crease to #15. And the slight "montana peak" to #13. It's speculative, of me, but I wonder. Of course, to know what was going on in Europe for men's hats of the same period would probably show the deficiency of the theory. But even there, the defeat of Spain in 1898, the Great White Fleet of 1905 promoted American influence. And other projections of American presence might have had an influence on style. I don't really know. Does anyone in the lounge? If they were even interested, I suppose.

dean

If I may introduce myself, I'm an italian guy who has been lurking for some time in this GREAT board.
I really appreciate old, solid, classic style, and I was pleasantly astonished in seeing how many people seems to share my tastes.

I really hope my italian perspetive on the arguments will be of use; and in turn, I'd ask you to be patient of my imperfect use of the english language!

If I can tell my opinon about Dean's theory, I've personally see some, and I'm almost sure I own one or tow, old photographs of italians wearing fedoras at the end of the XIXth century;
some of these for sure were on the heads of farmers and cow-hands (we have them in Italy as well... ) and, though having noticed a certain trend toward wide brims, I'd say they were more or less in the same shapes of "family" hats I currently own.

So I'd personally tend to exclude Fedora's popularity as derived from an american influence, but for sure I think their diffusion was the result of the spreading of a more popular, informal, "rough boy" style, a phenomenon probably happening in parallels in the two sides of the Atlantic.

Ciao!!

 

[Dinerman]

hi, welcome to the lounge!

 

[deanglen]

Hey! Thank you for your cross-atlantic input! I knew my theory was thin, and of course dissolved like toilet paper in the rain. Yet, vainly, is it possible that the creases, the bash styles of American fedoras could reflect the influence of the late XIXth century, albeit that in Europe paralell styles were present? See, the theory doesn't really matter. I just like to explore things like that. If they come up dead-ends, the chase was its own reward. And while I'm at it, nice to meet you Italian-Wiseguy, and welcome to a community of people who you'll never regret getting to know. And another thing, if you could post any pictures of the people wearing fedoras as you mentioned we'd loveto see them. Oh and another thing. Did Borsalino make hats for the Alpini in during the war? Great to be a friend to you!

dean

 

[Baggers]

Italian-wiseguy's argument makes sense. Think of all the European immigrants that came over during the 1800s. Perhaps that's where these hat bashes really originated?

Cheers!

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Captain Eddie Rickenbacker, America's top ace of the Great War, from a movie that his airline, Eastern Air Lines, produced in 1953 with Arthur Godfrey. Godfrey owned a DC-3 and held a Constellation type certificate.

Rickenbacker climbed out of that Spad XIII in the scene prior to this one, and the Spad was shown flying. The film implied Rickenbacker was flying the Spad, but I'm not sure.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Holy Toledo! His hat's crown is a #13 / #15 hybrid!

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