two worlds collide...update!

[havershaw]

It's not often, when one has multiple hobbies, that they cross into one another. but stranger things have happened. Examine, if you will:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8109325597&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT

For those not in the know, the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles is probably a bigger obsession for me than hats, even. I have looked long and far for a hat which has come from the Ambassador. It claims to be wool felt- but it's called a Disney 25, which makes me pretty skeptical of it being wool. Any thoughts?

Now, the trick is to actually win the bloody thing.

 

[jamespowers]

Go for it and good luck. I wish I could cover your back but that just doesn't work online---only in Film Noir movies.
Did you have him send you a picture of the inside and the writing theron? I don't know what to make of the wool/felt argument because the picture is fuzzy. I do not know what to think of the Twenty Five notation either. It has sort of a Stetson shape to it. Sort of like the playboy and stratoliner. I would have to see more pictures of the side view and the underside to really say something definite about it. The hat looks to be in nice shape. It could use a blocking to even out the crown but that is doable. I think you do that stuff, don't you? Have the seller send it to the neighbor's address so the wife doesn't see a new box that is suspiciously hat shaped. Works for me.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Fedora]

I would think that any vintage hat with a 25 on it would not be wool. Of course, you could ask if the word "wool" appears on the hat. Go fot it. Fedora

 

[Zane]

I personally think the hat is a very fine wool felt from the appearance. I also firmly believe that wool felt has a undue bad name for hats. Good wool can make a fine hat.

Can it make a fine fur felt hat ? NO it cannot . Can it make a good serviceable hat ? Yes it can. I know I usually do not call a wool hat a good hat and its true they usually are not good. Most wool hats of now adays are made with the same workmanship and materials
( other than body as a Borsalino is made from ) .

If you do find a substantial wool body or start with one, and add good sweat , liner and ribbon to it then it will turn out a pretty good hat. Obviously it will not last nor wear like a beaver felt nor will it appear same in looks nor feel.

I have stretched out some old wool hats for the big head people of the world before and put in good parts and made them a hat they were extremely satisfied with.
I recommend if you want the hat do not look at the appearance of wool but of the inner beauty of the name on the logos.

 

[Imahomer]

Well the guy has excellent feedback, so ask him some questions. Plus it's only $9.00, so that isn't much of a "chance". At least for right now.

 

[havershaw]

Well, to be honest, the hat could be made out of duck feathers and I'd still probably buy it - I buy pretty much anything on eBay that's from the Ambassador. I just think it would be supremely cool if it turned out to be a really nice hat as well. And it's my size!

I am going to email the seller, though, and try to find out some more about the hat. I have on evintage wool hat, and it's actually kind of nice. I don't wear it on a daily basis, but it's not bad.

But I have to admit that it seems hard to believe that it would be wool felt and still be called a Twenty-Five.

 

[Zane]

Havershaw, I do not think the number is significant except for very old and well established companies or ones still in existence as an identifier for their paticuar trade and internal purposes and to let the public know particular rating system. Like Fedora posted the xes from the Stetson book and I am sure they were in reference to a specific hat of the times. Back in the hills and hollers and small town America new traveled slowly and hatters were on every corner so to speak and they usually developed a rating system that made sense to them. It was really just used to identify one group of hats from another they made and many times and to do with overall hat as compared to the type or % of any particular fur or fleece.

Another point I would like to make is that I have seen wool and furfelt mixed many times and it typically was called Dynafelt or the like and it made a really nice finished hat. I never owned one and do not know how they hold up but they finished out nicely.

I know Luther Johnson had a whole passel of fur bodies that he bought off some old hater out in New Mexico , I think and they was them old mercury treated bodies. He never would make a hat from them except for some folks he never liked as he thought they were partly poison. I never could understand how wearing a hat would kill you and figured the sun would do you worse than any mercury you would get from a hat.

I have seen hats that were said to be from Muskrat, Mink, Sable, Nutria and various other critters but I never could hardly tell one from another if I was more than a hand shake away.

I would jump on that hat if it fancied you at all. You know the saying one mans trash is another's treasure.

I have seen millions of dollars worth of PA tins tossed by the way side and now adays they are fetching upwards to 25.00 and more if they are still fill of tobacco and folks don't even smoke it just collect he tins where they quit making it.

I was across the mountain other day and I seen Charlie pay over a 1000.00 for 4 old brass foot tollikers that used to sell for 5- 10 dollars a piece. He says all of the old hat making tools are hat away now adays and was happy to find them at that price.

I reckon where him an Luther spilt up now that he is a learning what value there is in such things as a friendship. Some times friends are worth more than money but this time is an example of their value in hard cash. He said it will cost him 40,000.00 for just a basic shop now and if he gets any of them fancy tools he wants it can run into half a million. I guess Luther is not willing to part with near that much for the stuff he took with him.

All said and done if you are a collecting stuff from there , you may fair better to just flat out make that man an offer for that hat of 20.00 including shipping and he may just part with it. I am not a avid eBay person but I have had folks bid on stuff for me before and some times that bidding goes crazy and drives prices through the roof.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm off to the post office to see if I got any mail. Does anybody else need any feathers?

 

[Fedora]

I know Luther Johnson had a whole passel of fur bodies that he bought off some old hater out in New Mexico , I think and they was them old mercury treated bodies. He never would make a hat from them except for some folks he never liked as he thought they were partly poison. I never could understand how wearing a hat would kill you and figured the sun would do you worse than any mercury you would get from a hat.

Wonder if he has any left to sale? I wouldn't mind a couple of those hat bodies if he was cheaper than Peters Bros. I sure would not be afraid to wear mercury felt. Also, thanks Zane. I now know what they mean by Dynafelt. Had nary clue that it was a wool and fur mixture like Cury currently makes down in South America. I would love to hear you share what you know about hat making and felt and such.

He never would make a hat from them except for some folks he never liked as he thought they were partly poison.

Now that one there had me practically rolling on the floor. That line of thought reminds me of some fellers I grew up around. Certified Alabama hill folks. Still plowed with mules when everyone else had John Deere tractors. One of those fellers was my dad's first cousin. His name was Mulce(pronounced Mull-see) His claim to fame was that during WW1, he would make pocket change from his fellow soldiers by standing on the back of a mule, and kick his own hat off his head. I knew him when he was pretty old, and he could still do it, but it would cost you to see it. When he was found dead, in bed, by his brother Narl, he had an old worn out fedora pulled down over his eyes. He and Narl both wore fedoras, the broad brim sort, full of holes and stained from years of wear. And bib overalls. They were a sight. Fedora

 

[Zane]

Fedora, I reckon we all would like to think we know some thing about something but what I know about hat making is fairly primitive and could be carried in a thimble. Oh sure I can block, pounce and finish a hat out as good as any one I have seen.

I can even sew in the sweatband correctly and do 50 more steps in-between all that right down to getting it ready to style. I was hand trained by masters of the art. Luther Johnson can make hats with the best of them when he wanted to and his partner may be a bit cantankerous and he said he made a real ass of himself on this forum but I can tell you he is the feller to learn it all from. It is where I learned what little I know.

I never could style a hat was my problem, you know make them creases just perfect and do that tender stuff like sew on a ribbon perfectly. Charlie Swindall was the best finisher I ever seen on a body but he never could do the fine stitching much good either. Old Luther was fine as a woman on sewing and such but he was like me and never had any business sense. Charlie could always meet and greet the folks and could find stuff when no body else could get anything to make good hats from. They was the perfect team.

I have seen your finishing and you style a hat ever bit as good as old Luther could on his best day so do not take nothing from your self.

Fedora, there may be some correct ways to do a hat but finding the right bodies is the most of it. I have made them with the best of tools available to a country hat maker and I have made them with almost no tools at all and it just takes 10 times as long if you ain't got nothing to work with but can turn out a very passable hat.

About them bodies, Charlie said Luther took them all with him and they ain't fell out at all I reckon just parting on friendly terms and still may work some together. I do not have any long distance calling here and do not have Luther's phone number neither one. I will see Charlie this week end or next or sooner if he brings me any work like he is promising to do and I will ask him more about what they had. He was more skittish that Luther about turning lose of them old felts but I thought they worked fine. Most of them had a little too much shellac in them for a real soft hat unless you boiled it out first but they made better hats than the new stuff in regular felt I thought.

I tell you one thing for durn sure, the bodies they use in store bought hats now is about a poor an excuse as I ever seen. It is just about useless for any good hat. I do not know what them fellers you mentioned are charging for a hat body now but I am more than sure Charlie or Luther either one will treat you more than fair on pricing if they agree to sell any of them at all. They ain't neither one glued to money and I think they both work more for the good it does them than they do for a paycheck.

Charlie was always more of a business man that Luther but the both of them was really inspired to try to make the finest hats possible. I have honestly seen them both dump perfectly passable hats in the trash many times just cause It had a little blemish. They would sell or give a bad hat to a family member but they never complained about trashing a really expensive body and starting over if it was for a customer.

Them Folks down in Pike County had so much money they could afford the very best and them fellers sure did give it to them. Now the Coal business is dead and the really rich most have died or moved I guess and They just was not enough local business for them both and Luther supposedly is doing the Rodeo circuit now and trying to get that western business and Charlie went to what he calls a dotcom business.

I can see how that you could make a living on teh computer if you do it right . heck this is like having every super Wal-Mart and other store all put together. I was amazed to ask for that Stetson book and Sharptoyes knew right where to get it right off. folks that know this computer stuff could be zillionaires.

Now I been noticing that I write a lot more and more often than most folks on here and I hope I ain't hogging up all the space. I don't know if there is proper manners about not writing so much or what but I sure have found my passion to talk to a whole lot of people that love hats as much as me.

 

[MK]

I thought of you today Bob. I found the call sheet from when I did a TV movie back in 1992......and the location shoot was at The Ambassador. I still have the video footage I shot of the kitchen. I may have shoot some other rooms too....but I don't recall.

 

[Zane]

MK, are you like the camera man or what do you do if I am not being rude to ask . Andddddddddd what hat is that you are wearing? It sure has a nice clean creasing to it?

 

[havershaw]

whoa!

I would love to see that footage some time, MK. That would have been three years after the hotel closed...but only two years before they sold all of its furnishings, etc. (that was in '95).

You are a lucky man to have been able to spend time there. I have not seen the actual RFK site, as that section of the kitchen is now boarded up, though I was in the rest of the kitchen.

 

[havershaw]

Well, it arrived...it's not wool felt, as the auction claimed. It's a Disney Twenty-Five, and the felt quality is probably one of the highest of any I own. It's fantastic! It's a little roomy (I can usually wear a 7 1/8, but I suspect someone stretched this a bit), but it's a beuatiful hats. A couple of nibbles, but nothing I'm losing sleep over. Both the liner and the sweatband read

Tom Preissman
Ambassador Hotel
Los Angeles

in the 1940s font used for the Ambassador. So I guess that's one way to date a hat. Anyway, really smooth finish. I wouldn't have cared too much if it had been wool, as it would have just been another part of my Ambassador Hotel collection...now I have a daily wearer from the Ambassador herself...and for nine bucks, to boot.

all hail the eBay.

 

[Zane]

Congrats Havershall ..

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by havershaw
Well, it arrived...it's not wool felt, as the auction claimed. It's a Disney Twenty-Five, and the felt quality is probably one of the highest of any I own. It's fantastic! It's a little roomy (I can usually wear a 7 1/8, but I suspect someone stretched this a bit), but it's a beuatiful hats. A couple of nibbles, but nothing I'm losing sleep over. Both the liner and the sweatband read

Tom Preissman
Ambassador Hotel
Los Angeles

in the 1940s font used for the Ambassador. So I guess that's one way to date a hat. Anyway, really smooth finish. I wouldn't have cared too much if it had been wool, as it would have just been another part of my Ambassador Hotel collection...now I have a daily wearer from the Ambassador herself...and for nine bucks, to boot.

all hail the eBay.

Glad to hear it. Lets see some pictures. I am happy that my guess about it being something other than wool was correct. Roomy is ok. :cool2: Enjoy the hat. You took the chance and it paid off.
Did anyone ever check out the other disney hat that I pointed out? Did it sell? Was it a 7 5/8? LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[Canadave]

Originally posted by jamespowers
...Did anyone ever check out the other disney hat that I pointed out? Did it sell? Was it a 7 5/8? LOL

Regards to all,

J

3 hours left...it's still $9.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2998&item=8113441491&rd=1

David