Turn of the Century Sack Suit

[volvomeister13]

I realize that this forum is mostly dedicated to 1920s-40s fashions, but I wonder if anyone can help me. I've always loved the various forms of the "sack suit" from the late 19th to early 20th century, particularly the 3-or-4-button black jacket with black or gray vest and trousers look. Of all the Victorian men's fashions, that look seems the most like something one could pull off today. But I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. All the modern stuff available now seems just not quite right, even modern four-button jackets as the buttons are set for a much lower "gorge" these days. The suits from that time also seem to be made of more "wool-ish" wool rather than some modern suits which are more of a sleek-finished wool which I've never much liked. I don't know what the proper terms are for that.

I'm looking for a legit outfit, so the polyester costume nonsense from the likes of Gentlemen's Emporium is no good, and I love old-town.co.uk, but their clothes are more in the workwear style and, although the cuts are perfect- especially their "lounge" jacket, the fabrics are thus more casual than the business attire look I'm going for. Good examples of what I'm into are the daytime business attire you might see on shows like Jeremy Brett's "Sherlock Holmes" or BBC's "Ripper Street" or "Mr. Selfridge," speaking of which how do the film and TV studios get such a plethora of quality period wear? At this point I'm more concerned with finding the damn stuff so I'll worry about financing it later, but assuming money were no object if someone is churning out so much of those clothes for the film studios is there any way to order it from the same source? Or if the studios have all that clothing floating around is there ever any way to buy some from them either used or new?

I guess there's the option of going to a bespoke tailor and having them work from a period photo, but can they even do something other than contemporary styles? Will they get all weird and try to insist on their own orthodox ways?

I don't really care about "period construction" as long as the look is right. If anyone has any advice at all I would REALLLLLY appreciate it and you'd be helping me towards a fashion dream! THANK YOU!!!!!

Here are some examples of what I like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Giovanni_Boldini_(1842-1931)_-John_Singer_Sargent(Standing).jpg

http://www.walternelson.com/dr/1910-sack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H_G_Wells_-_Sandgate_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_13715.png

 

[Two Types]

Have you tried speaking to 'Old Town' - maybe they would make a suit using an alternative fabric of your choice?

 

[herringbonekid]

a competent theatrical tailor could make that sort of suit. if you can't afford bespoke i would keep looking on ebay for a vintage one.

 

[Qirrel]

speaking of which how do the film and TV studios get such a plethora of quality period wear?

They either have a well stocked costume department or get new clothes made by theatrical/costume tailors.

if someone is churning out so much of those clothes for the film studios is there any way to order it from the same source?

If anyone is churning anything out, it is the polyester rag factories that supply for example, Gentlemen's Emporium. Usually you can only buy in bulk from costume providers, and most theatrical tailors would have too much work on their hands to cater for private customers.

Or if the studios have all that clothing floating around is there ever any way to buy some from them either used or new?

Seldom, and when they do sell, some other studio/costume specialists etc. will often buy all of it.

I guess there's the option of going to a bespoke tailor and having them work from a period photo, but can they even do something other than contemporary styles? Will they get all weird and try to insist on their own orthodox ways?

Most will not be able to/want to make period garments, as the amount of experimentation needed is not worth it for the price they charge. If you went to an older tailor or indeed any tailor whose prices are, say, somewhere in the region $3000 and up, they may be able to accommodate you.

I don't really care about "period construction" as long as the look is right.

The period needs to be taken into account when cutting and making, otherwise the look will never be right. That being said, if a modern tailor doing full canvassed suits were to narrow the shoulders, omit shoulder padding, omit the front dart, add some flare to the skirt, add a gorge/under lapel dart, use a suitably heavy fabric, and get the width of the lapel and the height of the buttoning right, the result would be a good reproduction of the style you seek.

There are people out there, for example those catering for the reenactment crowd, who can make an edwardian suit, but I don't think you will get it for less than $1000

 

[Qirrel]

a competent theatrical tailor could make that sort of suit. if you can't afford bespoke i would keep looking on ebay for a vintage one.

The downside is that unless the suit is black, you will most likely find yourself in a bidding war with the japanese, and then it will end up costing the same as a bespoke suit.

 

[herringbonekid]

Q, you could do it !

volvomeister13 check out the link at the bottom of Qirrel's posts.

 

[volvomeister13]

Wow thanks you guys! Really good suggestions. I should probably add that I came across Duchess Clothier, which is in SF and Portland and at www.duchessclothier.com. They looked like they could do some cool "Golden Age" styles as well, so might be up your guys' alley as well.

 

[volvomeister13]

Wow thanks you guys! Really good suggestions. I should probably add that I came across Duchess Clothier, which is in SF and Portland and at www.duchessclothier.com. They looked like they could do some cool "Golden Age" styles as well, so might be up your guys' alley as well.

Just thought I'd revisit this old thread to note that after giving Duchess Clothier more than just a cursory glance, their stuff does not look at all up to snuff. Wouldn't want to steer anyone towards them.

 

[Papperskatt]

Jeez, how have I missed this thread!? I'm a big fan of the style myself (although, no black suit for me please) and have done a lot of research over the years. Here are some makers that I think that you'll find interesting:

Walton & Taylor Mercantile: http://www.waltontaylor.com/welcome.html
History in the making: http://www.historyinthemaking.org/catalogue/mencost1885-1910.html
The Sutlers store: http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/town.html

I don't have any personal experience with the clothes from any of those, although I have experience with their customer service, and based on that I think that I can recommend them. They all seem to make really nice clothes.

I have experience with Old Town, and their stuff are truly superb. The only problem I have with them are that the jackets are fussed rather than canvassed, but that's something that I can live with as this style are so rare.

And then there's Dandy's which are the latest company that I've found. Their clothes look quite nice on the photographs, but I doubt their quality for some reason. I don't know why... http://dandysuit.com/

 

[Papperskatt]

Volvo, have you seen this Edwardian jacket on eBay? Not exactly cheap but maybe the seller is open for more reasonable offers?

It's too big (and expensive) for me, otherwise I might've bought it, even though it's black.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-20s...pt=Vintage_Men_s_Clothing&hash=item258807caf9

 

[volvomeister13]

NICE! Love the high button stance. I'm roughly a size 40, so it would be more like a sleeping bag on me. Otherwise I'd be sorely tempted to relieve myself of $600.

 

[DamianM]

That is a dream price.

 

[CONELRAD]

There's a 1904 dated dark brown sack suit from Germany on eBay. Seems to be about a size 38 to 40, with a 36 inch waist on the pants.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Suit-vintage-German-dated-1904-AG09-/281207700223

They're asking a small fortune at approximately $825 (or best offer), but it seems to fit the bill for a turn of the century sack suit, and I thought it might be of some interest to you, Volvomeister.

 

[volvomeister13]

I saw that! It's awesome! Unfortunately, the price is a bit crazy for me, and it's not a suit I'd buy without trying it on in person as it may be a bit small for me.

Nonetheless, that suit will make someone very happy.

 

[Picard1138]

I understand that Brooks Brothers has brought back their original sac suit. Has anyone seen these yet?

 

[Patrick Hall]

I understand that Brooks Brothers has brought back their original sac suit. Has anyone seen these yet?

I would be HIGHLY surprised if that is true. I'd guess "brought back sack suit" means the Ivy League/Trad dartless/ 3-roll-2 plain front slacked standard from mid century.

They have, however, revived the practice of making their own garments under the "Our Own Make" banner. The pieces are expensive, but don't appear to be sourced from Southwick like the rest of their high end sport coat/suit offerings.

 

[Tomasso]

They have, however, revived the practice of making their own garments under the "Our Own Make" banner. The pieces are expensive, but don't appear to be sourced from Southwick like the rest of their high end sport coat/suit offerings.

If they are US made they are probably from Martin Greenfield who have done lots of work for BB over the years.

http://greenfieldclothiers.com/aboutus.html

 

[Patrick Hall]

They are US made - and Greenfield already does all their MTM trade. But, given that they already use Greenfield for that, it seems like they wouldn't herald clothes made by Greenfield under a new "Our Own Make" marketing push - but who knows. Wouldn't be the first time such obfuscation was used in a catalog campaign.

 

[Tomasso]

it seems like they wouldn't herald clothes made by Greenfield under a new "Our Own Make" marketing push - but who knows. Wouldn't be the first time such obfuscation was used in a catalog campaign.

Just remember, BB are now owned by the Italians, master manipulators of smoke and mirrors.

 

[Papperskatt]

There's a nice blue linen three piece from Old Town in size 40 on UK eBay right now. Unfortunately it's too big for me.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Town-...=UK_Men_s_Suits_Tailoring&hash=item3cdc577a0a

It uses their old label so it's at least pre 2011 (that's when I bought my first garment from them).

Apparently the seller have three more suits that he's soon going to sell, too.



EDIT: By the way, was it someone from here that bought this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151207524527?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I hesitated for too long and then it was gone.