Training a goat

[Hornet35]

Just bought what could be the last goat Indy from Wested and got it at a nice discount too (thank you Peter). I guess it wouldn't pass muster with the screen accurate brigade but thats not why I bought it - just wanted a 'vintage' style jacket, so don't ask me what type Indy it is.

A couple of questions for those with more experience in the leather jacket world:

1.The collar needs training to make it stand a little more; any advice as to the best way of doing this - is misting appropriate? Does it work on goat?
2. Given that goat doesn't 'break-in' as such is there any way of slightly accelerating the 'wearing-in' process without resorting to the brutal methods I've read about elsewhere?

Thanks.

H35

 

[Doug C]

Hornet - I alway try to get my new jackets wet as soon as possible, if nothing else it takes away that brand new look. I prefer to just wear them in the rain but have also been known to used the kitchen sink. If you don't want to do that then I say just mist the collar only and work the collar into the shape you want and let it dry that way - may take a couple of tries.

Doug C

 

[Hornet35]

Thanks Doug.

Had a go today at misting the collar and other bits and am beginning to achieve what I want, so will keep at it. Found some large stones to take the flatness out of the pockets.

Is there a cure for this?!

Cheers
H35

 

[John in Covina]

Is there a cure for this?! Cheers H35

*******
Sure seems that once you start collecting things like jackets and such, there is no cure, just personal restraint and good choice skills.
Hope you'll be able to post some pictures!

 

[fedoralover]

Hornet, this is a B&W of my Aero A-2 horsehide after only 5 days of wearing. I misted all of the jacket numerous times, stuffed my wallet and cell phone in the front pockets and drove my car around town a lot, keeping my hands at 10:00 and 2:00, this kept the arms wrinkled up in a natural position. Doing all the steering, doing as many turns as possible made the shoulder creases set in. Soon the pockets had a 3 dimensional look from being stretched out some and the jacket looked like I had been wearing it for many months. It made a huge difference in the comfort level in wearing. It seems that this would work on goat just as it did on horse.

fedoralover

 

[Kt Templar]

The Wested goatskin jackets from that batch have a 'glazed' shiny look to them. One way you can try to get rid of that and get some quick aging is to shower them with hot water (easier if you have one of those hand held shower heads). You don't have to soak it through. Just enough to get it wet and to get the waxy top layer off. Then dry it as scrunched up (or not) as you want.

 

[Hornet35]

Thanks All.

John - I'll think about photos! I'm not really into all that stuff but I realise the interest generated!!

Fedoralover - I saw your earlier posts on the accelerated break-in of your jacket. Its a peach and I can't believe its only taken a few days to get that appearance. I hope goat responds as well. I'm in Scotland in a week so may have another attempt at an Aero. Had a disappointing experience with them last year.

Kt. T. - Sounds like 'that batch' of Wested goat has a bit of a history; what are you not telling me? The jacket had a bloom on it which Peter removed without a problem and there are a couple of (out of sight) areas where the stitching is not as perfect as you'd like, but then from what I gather thats Wested isn't it? And the Aero Long Half-belt I bought last year wasn't completely imperfection-free, in a number of areas. Will try the hot water trick during ablutions later!!

H35

 

[tonyb]

You may wish to check out fishmeok's entry in the "U.S. Wings sale" thread in the FL Classifieds. On Page 5 (it's a long thread) are photos of him in his bargain goatskin Indy jacket and an explanation of his accelerated breaking-in and "customizing" process.

 

[Kt Templar]

Kt. T. - Sounds like 'that batch' of Wested goat has a bit of a history; what are you not telling me? The jacket had a bloom on it which Peter removed without a problem and there are a couple of (out of sight) areas where the stitching is not as perfect as you'd like, but then from what I gather thats Wested isn't it? And the Aero Long Half-belt I bought last year wasn't completely imperfection-free, in a number of areas. Will try the hot water trick during ablutions later!!

No history at all, there are a couple that showed the bloom after they got really cold during the winter and that may be one of the reasons he discontinued it as soon as he found out. Along with the fact they couldn't supply big enough skins for our huskier jacket fans. If he gave you a can of letap it removes it without any problem. The shine is the coating that tannery gave it and it looks a little plasticy, the hot water should dull it down quite a lot. If not next step is a gentle surgical spirit wipe.

 

[Hornet35]

Just a couple(ish) of pics (I hope!).
A word of warning - they are not a detailed, clinical examination of the jacket's construction and appearance from every angle!
Just me, the jacket and the mistress - who looks pretty good for her 72 years doncha think?
I like the loose fit of this jacket, at least with only a shirt (and there is room for layering), the way the pockets are shaping up (notice the cellphone, Fedoralover?) and the way it's responding to occasional misting. Yes I did have the press stud fitted to the bottom of the storm flap - I knew I'd be irritated by the thing curling back.

All in all, for the money (a bit less than a third of the average Aero in Sterling) I'm pleased.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w195/Hornet35/P4240012web.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w195/Hornet35/P4240014web.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w195/Hornet35/P4240015web.jpg

Thanks, one and all, for the good advice.

H35

 

[Kt Templar]

Now, doesn't that look great! If one of those had fitted me I would have snapped it up straight away! I am debating with myself aboutgetting one of his horsehides. The horse he has right now is really nice and about as supple the goat.

 

[Hornet35]

Thanks Kt.T. - your comments in my original thread were right.
I should've looked more closely at the horsehide jacket when I visited Peter's place. He showed me one, which seemed quite lightweight compared to what I've seen of Aero and ELC. As you say, it was as supple as the goat so probably would require little breaking-in to achieve more character than the goat is likely to. The fit wasn't good however. Weight is a consideration believe it or not as the aeroplane was designed with 10 stone '30s bodies in mind and I don't fall into that category by a long way:cry:

Tootlepip,

H35.

 

[patterson]

I have used several methods with goatskin jackets. One problem is that goatskins can vary so much - light weight veg tanned Indian goatskin vs. the almost rubberized feel of some of the US Wings and Wested goatskins. It is the later that presents more challenges. Getting it wet is really the key, though. In my capacity - and because I tend to try a lot of different methods because it is not as big a deal if I actually destroy one here or there - I actually put a US Wings goatskin Indy in the washing machine. I used warm water and a little liquid detergent. It was the vulcanized-rubber variety and honestly I hate this kind of goatskin. I have to tell you though, after hanging it to dry at room temperature it really looked and felt terrific. The sheen was gone, the rubbery texture was gone and it actually looked and felt like leather. It also had a nice patina and began draping and gathering like you want it to.

I let it dry 95% on the hanger, and then wore it on a hot day to finish it off. It was torture wearing it, but it really made a huge difference. Looked like I had been wearing it everyday for 20 years.

I am not guaranteeing any other jacket would hold up to this - especially a Wested. I have problems with them falling apart all by themselves...

 

[Hornet35]

Thanks Patterson. The washing machine does sound a bit extreme but I guess can't really be any worse than wetting with warm water as has been suggested by Kt. T. and as I've already done once. Fishmeok of course followed your example with his 'cardboard' US Wings and seems to have achieved similar results to you.
The only 'problem' with this jacket, if there is one, is that the finish does tend to mask the character of the leather somewhat, although it remains beautifully supple. I wouldn't call it rubbery exactly.
I know there are issues with Wested jacket durability - only time will tell, I guess, as far as this one is concerned and at the price I can afford another couple before I hit the Aero or ELC level.

BTW, what is your capacity - being new here I don't know.

Tootlepip,

H35

 

[patterson]

Sorry - "My capacity" refers to another site... I am the resident jacket abuser of record, if you will, on IndyGear... I've done "test drives" on somewhere north of 30 indy jackets, and have had more than that number of A2's flow through the collection, plus a few M422a's and G1's... I'll buy them, document them, sometimes try different distressing techniques on some, sell most to fund furture acquisitions (they deserve to be worn) and have kept more than I can wear... Right now there are 8 A2's, 5 Indy Jackets, one M422a, one G1... Yep, I think that is it... Oh, my wife has 2 indy jackets and an A2 as well...

Something that is gentler, will take several if not a few dozen times to get the effect, but is effective with the Westeds? Use 70% rubbing alcohol and an old sock turned inside-out. Drench the sock and rub it into the jacket supported with an ironing board. Work it all around. Wear the jacket and work it into the arms with the jacket creasing. Eventually, this will wear away the surface pigment. It is gradual, safe, and will give a very nice patina...

 

[Hornet35]

OK, thanks for that. We have surgical spirit over here which is a mix of ethanol and methanol and which I presume is the same as, or close to, rubbing alcohol?

H35

 

[silhouette53]

Sorry - "My capacity" refers to another site... I am the resident jacket abuser of record, if you will, on IndyGear... I've done "test drives" on somewhere north of 30 indy jackets, and have had more than that number of A2's flow through the collection, plus a few M422a's and G1's... I'll buy them, document them, sometimes try different distressing techniques on some, sell most to fund furture acquisitions (they deserve to be worn) and have kept more than I can wear... Right now there are 8 A2's, 5 Indy Jackets, one M422a, one G1... Yep, I think that is it... Oh, my wife has 2 indy jackets and an A2 as well...

Something that is gentler, will take several if not a few dozen times to get the effect, but is effective with the Westeds? Use 70% rubbing alcohol and an old sock turned inside-out. Drench the sock and rub it into the jacket supported with an ironing board. Work it all around. Wear the jacket and work it into the arms with the jacket creasing. Eventually, this will wear away the surface pigment. It is gradual, safe, and will give a very nice patina...

I'm following this thread with interest as I've owned an A2 from Aero for three years now and, despite giving it what I consider to be some rough treatment, the damn thing still refuses to look as 'lived in' as I would like it to.
I also have one of their Long Half Belt jackets which is breaking in nicely after less than a year of use. An A2 though, just doesn't look right unless it has aquired a beaten up vintage look and I'm fast becoming convinced that I should adopt one of these drastic 'throw it in the washing machine' approaches !!! Maybe I'll summon up the courage soon, who knows lol

Re your M-422a, has it had 'the treatment' at all ? I am ever on the lookout for a good one. From the pic on Aeros site, it looks like theirs would take years of outright abuse before it even began to look broken in.
I read that Goatskin takes a great deal longer than Horsehide to aquire a vintage look, so ...... if you decide at some point to find a new home for yours and it happens to be a 40 / 42 then keep me in mind ?

 

[patterson]

I'm following this thread with interest as I've owned an A2 from Aero for three years now and, despite giving it what I consider to be some rough treatment, the damn thing still refuses to look as 'lived in' as I would like it to.
I also have one of their Long Half Belt jackets which is breaking in nicely after less than a year of use. An A2 though, just doesn't look right unless it has aquired a beaten up vintage look and I'm fast becoming convinced that I should adopt one of these drastic 'throw it in the washing machine' approaches !!! Maybe I'll summon up the courage soon, who knows lol

Re your M-422a, has it had 'the treatment' at all ? I am ever on the lookout for a good one. From the pic on Aeros site, it looks like theirs would take years of outright abuse before it even began to look broken in.
I read that Goatskin takes a great deal longer than Horsehide to aquire a vintage look, so ...... if you decide at some point to find a new home for yours and it happens to be a 40 / 42 then keep me in mind ?

I've had a few Aero A2's that needed help along the way to breaking in - namely a private label made from FQHH (so stiff it bruised my biceps the first time I wore the thing!) and a HH Bronco pattern. The Bronco just needed a nudge with 70% rubbing alcohol. My M422a is a Real McCoy, and it has broken-in beautifully all by itself. Not one I'll EVER let go but am happy to recommend them to anybody!

I do come across others occasionally that do need homes, so I'll let you know. I run about a 54 in an Aero...

 

[Technonut]

I'm fast becoming convinced that I should adopt one of these drastic 'throw it in the washing machine' approaches !!! Maybe I'll summon up the courage soon, who knows

It worked for my G&B historical A-2...

Check out the last set of pics in my post:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=17475&page=3

 

[Hornet35]

Silhouette53 - if you're thinking of using surgical spirit be sure to go easy with it and have some idea of what colour is under the layer you're taking off. The usual advice - try it on an inconspicuous area first . I can confirm, for Pattersons interest, that my Wested jacket survived the washing machine