Toppers Unite

[St. Valentine]

Fantastic toppers, Gentlemen! :eusa_clap I will have to get myself a topper for this years Ascot races too and wonder how those fur felt versions wear and look against the classic silk toppers. What would you recommend? Anything to watch out for?

Frank

 

[newturnofphrase]

Melusine fur felt toppers stack up alright, but they aren't as shiny as the old silk ones. If you polish them with tallow they look pretty close. Christys makes a good one, as does Lock. If you're a smaller size the old silk ones are a better bargain because excellent silk toppers in medium and small sizes regularly come up on ebay and are usually auctioned off for relatively little (compared to new fur felt ones)

 

[St. Valentine]

That´s my problem! I have size 59 (7 3/8) and it seems nearly impossible to find a nice silk topper. [huh] I surely would prefer the shine of the silk ones....

Frank

 

[dhermann1]

Question: Is an opera topper (as opposed to a real silk topper) declasse for daytime wear, as with a morning suit?

 

[Nick D]

That´s my problem! I have size 59 (7 3/8) and it seems nearly impossible to find a nice silk topper. [huh] I surely would prefer the shine of the silk ones....

Frank

I've actually seen a few in that size recently on the UK eBay. The real problem is the price seems to increase exponentially along with size.

 

[newturnofphrase]

That´s my problem! I have size 59 (7 3/8) and it seems nearly impossible to find a nice silk topper. [huh] I surely would prefer the shine of the silk ones....

Frank

I'm a 61 so I feel your pain. 59s do come up from time to time, however, you just need to be diligent and check ebay (.com, .co.uk, and .de) frequently if you want a silk topper. Also, don't be afraid to bid high using a bid sniper if you want to get the lowest price/most certainty of getting the thing you want.

 

[Topper]

If you want a felt try looking for an old vintage shella Grey Top hat. ( Herbert Johnson did quite a few in this style) Alternatively Silk Plush is most popular. Melusine/fur/wool felt topper whislt perfectly adequate are often ( with exception of hunting silk) heavier than a shellac shell.

Most people will find the next point not applicable, but it is QI if you are into toppers. Depending on your head shape (sometimes very long ovals or extreme shapes) a shellac is easier to conform. Felt on occasions especially wool if subject to wet condition ocassionally have a "memory" - in time it can try to return to a more uniform shape. Whislt one can apply additional stiffiner to felts to hold a more extreme shape... this again increases the weight slightly and decreases the breathability of the felt. The shellac shell sets much more rigidly and quickly for a semi-permanent shape ( whilst non breathable ( remember the 1st Silk Hat in Engald was a "Waterproof hat in immitation of Beaver"- But is it a lot lighter!)

Large sizes are common if you know where to go...... Though I cannot say ( this forum prevents me from telling you what i sell!) But remember, as i tend to say................. "it's not just size that matters!" You really need to get if correctly fitted to you head shape.

Factors when considering the silk prices include:

1) Size
2) Height of Crown
3) Shape/Style of Hat ( Flaired Bell Crown est popular but not commonly available again supply and demand)
4) Quality of Plush fabric
5) Manufacturer
Note: Just because a Tip Label doesn't say a Major Hat factory- doesnt mean it wasnt made by one! A lot of hats are made by the main factories for small hatters - So basically are the same shell, but just different Labels. You can see some with bothe the hatter/hat shop and the hat factory mentioned. Also I have seen hats ( of about 100yr old) that have many tip liners inside (asking who was the actual the maker and who subsequent was a repairer!)
6) Brim Shape ( often adjustable by a hatter)
7) Condition / wear of the Hat
8) Time of Year ! ( "off" season may be cheaper)
9) Priemium for availability - You essentailly are buying a service for having a hat on the spot.

Before I started I spent over a year looking for a 61cm 7&1/2. It took me to my 11th Topper before i got the one i liked. The cost of 11 hats each meant to be 61cm ( .....which sometimes were not 61cm! caveat emptor on some internet auctions!) PLUS the time spent looking and searching for one......... was for more that had i just bought one direct. Yes I still wear my 11th ... and a few more since that too!

 

[Topper]

Collapsible is for evening wear, when going to Opera, traditionally with White tie, or if black tie worn with cape or long evening overcoat. There are no specific regulations stating cannot wear one, just "not the done thing" by a chap.

Though they may be worn by Cabaret dancers anytime - if one is visiting *cough* er - an establishment of entertainment after a lunchtime meal!

 

[St. Valentine]

Topper, thank you for this elaborate answer! Definitely very informative.
I might have a time problem though, Ascot is just around the corner. I wouldn´t go for wool felt, fur felt would be the minimum.
OTOH I have to watch the price as well as there is still the morning coat with trousers and a waist coat to get.

 

[mayserwegener]

You should be able to find a good condition size 59cm vintage silk Topper on German eBay.

 

[St. Valentine]

There are in fact some right now but it´s always difficult to judge the condition from the photos. People seem to shoot more and more only with their cell phones. :eusa_doh:
The larger sizes come at a price too. So, just to be on the safe side this time I think I am going for a new topper. Maybe I´ll be back next year with a proper vintage one at last...

 

[dhermann1]

Collapsible is for evening wear, when going to Opera, traditionally with White tie, or if black tie worn with cape or long evening overcoat. There are no specific regulations stating cannot wear one, just "not the done thing" by a chap.

Though they may be worn by Cabaret dancers anytime - if one is visiting *cough* er - an establishment of entertainment after a lunchtime meal!

Yeah, I kinda thought so. Thanx.

 

[newturnofphrase]

There are in fact some right now but it´s always difficult to judge the condition from the photos. People seem to shoot more and more only with their cell phones. :eusa_doh:
The larger sizes come at a price too. So, just to be on the safe side this time I think I am going for a new topper. Maybe I´ll be back next year with a proper vintage one at last...

Don't jump the gun, I sent you a private message with an auction for what appears to be a mint 7 3/8 that should be perfect. Make sure you double check the size with the seller though.

 

[Topper]

There are in fact some right now but it´s always difficult to judge the condition from the photos. People seem to shoot more and more only with their cell phones. :eusa_doh:

Not just size - the style/shape can also be distorted depedning on angle gives a fisheye look that makes the hat look more "bell" curved that it normally is!

 

[Nick D]

My new silk topper arrived today. It's in much better condition than the one I picked up about a month ago, but is a bit more snug (it was advertised as being the same size, but it does sit higher). A nice curve to the brim and crown, no flaws to the silk. My only conern is fit. What say you, gents?

This one is a bit clearer and shows the shine better. I'll give it a proper brush and polish later.

 

[newturnofphrase]

That topper is a classic, pretty much a perfect example of the form, and the fit looks good to me. Older toppers with incredibly swooping brims like that were worn higher anyway, given that the brim would obscure the eyes were it worn low like today's hats. Really like the brim curl on that one.

 

[Brad Bowers]

In a photo sure to cause fits of apoplexy, here I am wearing my Crofut & Knapp top hat last Wednesday at our campus's annual SpringFling. Yes, with an Aloha shirt and navy blazer. And penny loafers.

The PCC History Society, of which I am the faculty advisor, had a club fundraiser where anyone could purchase votes to have a faculty member kiss a donkey. I maintained a pretty good lead during the week leading up to SpringFling, but lost my lead in the last five minutes. Quick campaigning on my part and the part of my students saw me overcome a 200 vote deficit to claim a definitive victory, 802 votes! The runner-up only had 530. Everyone had fun, and we made about $500 overall.

Winter is just 2 1/2 months old, and adorable as can be. Who wouldn't want to kiss her? (Yes, I still need to replace the binding on my brim.)

Brad

 

[zetwal]

The PCC History Society, of which I am the faculty advisor, had a club fundraiser where anyone could purchase votes to have a faculty member kiss a donkey. I maintained a pretty good lead during the week leading up to SpringFling, but lost my lead in the last five minutes.

Wonderful pics and story ... Kudos! :yo:

 

[Topper]

Nice hat - but too small and obviously (if just arrived) not fitted.

Easy way to test - What I call "The Umbrella Test" - imaging at Ascot, and one has careless dropped one's umbrella when shouting for joy after picking a trifecta (I can still dream!)...... Bend over as if picking it up ( or as if doing up one shoe - same diff)

Your hat should not come off! :eeek: ............ Simples!

( maybe it will move slighty but it should give adequate warning before moving - as depends on ones hair length and style as long hair has a habbit of moving at times).

 

[Nick D]

Easy way to test - What I call "The Umbrella Test" - imaging at Ascot, and one has careless dropped one's umbrella when shouting for joy after picking a trifecta (I can still dream!)...... Bend over as if picking it up ( or as if doing up one shoe - same diff)

Your hat should not come off! :eeek: ............ Simples!

Already tried that, bent every which way, even upside down and it doesn't shift.

The fit seems to be more like these late-Victorian gents: