Toppers Unite

[Mulceber]

Due to the rarity and the extreme expense of original silk top hats in my size ($400-500 ), I'm thinking of getting this beaver top hat:

http://www.hatshop.com/site/showItem.php?Inv_ID=70

My question is, is this PURE beaver? I feel like I have to doubt it, given that it's only from people like Art and Steve Delk that I've seen beaver that cheap. What are the thoughts of you people? Would this make a good topper? -M

 

[Wolfmanjack]

My question is, is this PURE beaver? I feel like I have to doubt it, given that it's only from people like Art and Steve Delk that I've seen beaver that cheap. What are the thoughts of you people? Would this make a good topper? -M

At $285 I don't think it would be pure beaver. You should ask them. In fact, I would want to ask a number of questions about the quality and construction of this hat, before I would buy it. These so-called "beaver" toppers are widely available and they vary enormously in quality. Some are just wool felt.

This is the Worth & Worth topper:

As to the proportions, the crown is rather low and the brim is a bit wide, compared to my vintage silk plush topper. Again, there was wide variation in these proportions throughout the topper's history. Will you be wearing it with period attire and if so, what period? Also, of course, consider the proportions that will look best on you.

Lastly, I would urge you to consult the excellent advice provided by Charlie Huang's Buying Guide, before embarking on a purchase.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I do not like the brim of the W&W topper. For one, it looks more like a homburg brim than a topper brim. The brim of a high silk must be swooping: the sides are curled almost 180 degrees inwards and the fore and aft should not be curled at all. The silk binding should be least on top and more on the underside so the fore and aft has only a thin, almost piped, edge of silk whilst the sides have a wide flat facing of silk (as the underside is exposed the most). A binding with silk equal in width on the top and underside is wrong and is a sign of an inferior topper.

 

[Mario]

Now that's what I call a proper bashing!

 

[Mulceber]

Thanks for the advice guys. Well, I've always been a believer in the "buy quality, cry once" theory. This hat would be for white tie events, so it would not be worn all that often, so I guess I'm just going to have to be patient and wait for either a big influx of money or a really good deal. Thanks for your help! -M

 

[Charlie Huang]

Thanks for the advice guys. Well, I've always been a believer in the "buy quality, cry once" theory. This hat would be for white tie events, so it would not be worn all that often, so I guess I'm just going to have to be patient and wait for either a big influx of money or a really good deal. Thanks for your help! -M

You could get an opera hat. These go for cheap on Messrs. E. Bay and that could be a stand in whilst you wait for a proper topper.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I do not like the brim of the W&W topper. For one, it looks more like a homburg brim than a topper brim. The brim of a high silk must be swooping: the sides are curled almost 180 degrees inwards and the fore and aft should not be curled at all.

This is the same problem with finding a proper derby/bowler today, as almost no one makes them the way they used to be made, partly because they've lost the knowledge, but mostly because it takes so much more time to do it correctly.

Brad

 

[Chasseur]

Several months back I picked up this old American topper from fellow member XPLSV.

Now I'll finally have a proper topper for my daytime and evening tails!

It almost fits, my head it just a bit too oval for the round hat. So I'm going to drop by Patey in March and have it molded for my head after they use one of those conformation devises on me. I'm getting the leather case restored at the moment.


Here was the thread on the interesting history of the hat here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=41800&highlight=beaver

 

[jmrtnko]

My question is, is this PURE beaver?

For that price, it is possible that there is some beaver component to the fur (5-10%). But with "beaver" now being used more to describe a long-nap finish than an actual fur source (even among felt suppliers), it's equally likely that it's all rabbit. I wouldn't worry too much about the fur content though. Any type of long-nap fur felt can take a decent shine with the proper supplies.

The shape is really as important, or more so than the fur. I do have to agree a bit with the comments above, it's a bit pencil-brim for my taste. That kind of brim is more often seen on flat fur, and wool felt top hats and doesn't fit as well with a polished hat. The trouble is that at a sub-$300 price point, you're simply not going to find a more refined brim in a new hat. It's too much specialized labor.

My guess is that the hat you linked to is from the Czech Republic as most of these new "beaver" top hats are. Tricky, I have a friend who has one of these and the brim is actually quite nice. If you go this route, I would recommend buying it in person.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Beautiful topper Chasseur...and it illustrates perfectly what Charlie Huang was saying about the proper brim treatment for a top hat.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

90-Year-Old Polishing Method.

Charlie Huang has provided us with an excellent Guide to Polishing a Top Hat. I have used this method with considerable success. But I thought there might be some interest in learning about this 90-year-old method used by the venerable master hatter Henry L. Ermatinger:

It should not take over twenty minutes to iron a silk hat. First brush the brim thoroughly with your silk hat penetrating brush, making sure that all of the dust is removed. Sponge the underbrim [I think Ermatinger means the whole hat here, not just the underbrim] with a cotton wad dipped in gasoline. Rub one way only. This process imparts gloss and lays the nap. As gasoline evaporates rapidly, the hat dries quickly. When dry, brush again with the penetrating brim brush and shake all the dust out of the crown, brushing it with a silk hat brush. Then, take a pad made of the silk cover of an old umbrella, hold it against a very hot iron, and then run the hot pad quickly over the hat, in the direction of the nap only. The hot silk pad produces the necessary lustre. By placing the hat on your tip stand, you can spin a perfect center to the tip by running the hot silk pad over the same. After the hat has been thoroughly brushed, the hot silk pad rubbed thoroughly over the tip, sides and upper brim, so that no streaks appear, and that hat has a perfect lustre or polish, you must then sponge the binding and underbrim with your hot sponge.

Ermatinger, Henry L. Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating. New York, Roberts, Cushman & Co. 1919 p. 144-146.
​

I haven't tried this. Does anyone have experience with this method?

 

[Chasseur]

Thanks Jack, its really a beautiful hat.

 

[dhermann1]

Czeck it out

Charlie: I have a Czech made Selentino topper that I bought several years ago (long before I found the Lounge. Ohhh! If I knew then what I know now!). It is a decent but not great quality fur felt. How polishable would you think it would be? If you want pics, I'lll try tomorrow.

 

[jmrtnko]

Ermatinger, Henry L. Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating.

This is really a very interesting book, and available online in full on Google Books. If nothing else, it disabuses you of the notion of how delicate a silk hat really is.

I have an old beater silk that I've been using as a test subject. The naptha method is comparable to water, but is a slight bit faster as the naptha flashes off more quickly. There was a small spot on the crown of a better hat I have, so I tried the naptha on it. It removed, and polished the spot, but it was always slightly different after that. It could be because it was cleaner than the surrounding fabric, or it could have affected the silk in some way. I think naptha is an all or nothing deal, so I would stick to the underbrim unless you're willing to do it all.

I've also tried the silk pad/tip stand finishing polish, but I have yet to notice any noticeable improvement from that of a steamed lure. I'm slowly increasing the temperature on the iron each time I try it, so that might be it.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Several months back I picked up this old American topper from fellow member XPLSV.

Now I'll finally have a proper topper for my daytime and evening tails!

It almost fits, my head it just a bit too oval for the round hat. So I'm going to drop by Patey in March and have it molded for my head after they use one of those conformation devises on me. I'm getting the leather case restored at the moment.


Here was the thread on the interesting history of the hat here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=41800&highlight=beaver

This definately recieves a thumbs up from me! :eusa_clap

 

[Charlie Huang]

Charlie Huang has provided us with an excellent Guide to Polishing a Top Hat. I have used this method with considerable success. But I thought there might be some interest in learning about this 90-year-old method used by the venerable master hatter Henry L. Ermatinger:

It should not take over twenty minutes to iron a silk hat. First brush the brim thoroughly with your silk hat penetrating brush, making sure that all of the dust is removed. Sponge the underbrim [I think Ermatinger means the whole hat here, not just the underbrim] with a cotton wad dipped in gasoline. Rub one way only. This process imparts gloss and lays the nap. As gasoline evaporates rapidly, the hat dries quickly. When dry, brush again with the penetrating brim brush and shake all the dust out of the crown, brushing it with a silk hat brush. Then, take a pad made of the silk cover of an old umbrella, hold it against a very hot iron, and then run the hot pad quickly over the hat, in the direction of the nap only. The hot silk pad produces the necessary lustre. By placing the hat on your tip stand, you can spin a perfect center to the tip by running the hot silk pad over the same. After the hat has been thoroughly brushed, the hot silk pad rubbed thoroughly over the tip, sides and upper brim, so that no streaks appear, and that hat has a perfect lustre or polish, you must then sponge the binding and underbrim with your hot sponge.

Ermatinger, Henry L. Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating. New York, Roberts, Cushman & Co. 1919 p. 144-146.
​

I haven't tried this. Does anyone have experience with this method?

I have never come across this method before but I must include it in my article for reference!

 

[Charlie Huang]

Charlie: I have a Czech made Selentino topper that I bought several years ago (long before I found the Lounge. Ohhh! If I knew then what I know now!). It is a decent but not great quality fur felt. How polishable would you think it would be? If you want pics, I'lll try tomorrow.

Yes, pics will be needed.

If it's fur (melusine or otherwise) then you can't polish it as sleek as silk. For one, as the fur dries it reacts differently to silk and becomes fuzzy so the water method is useless on it.

 

[Chasseur]

Charlie,

Thanks! Does the hat look like beaver or silk to you?

 

[dhermann1]

Just won on Ebay

I just won this on Ebay. Opinions? Thanx.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330381300026&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

 

[filfoster]

Beaver vs silk

At $285 I don't think it would be pure beaver. You should ask them. In fact, I would want to ask a number of questions about the quality and construction of this hat, before I would buy it. These so-called "beaver" toppers are widely available and they vary enormously in quality. Some are just wool felt.

This is the Worth & Worth topper:

As to the proportions, the crown is rather low and the brim is a bit wide, compared to my vintage silk plush topper. Again, there was wide variation in these proportions throughout the topper's history. Will you be wearing it with period attire and if so, what period? Also, of course, consider the proportions that will look best on you.

Lastly, I would urge you to consult the excellent advice provided by Charlie Huang's Buying Guide, before embarking on a purchase.

The most significant difference between the 'modern' block formed beaver or fur top hats and the silk plush covered pasteboard or buckram hats is the sharp edge where the sides of the crown meet the top of the crown. No blocked hat I have seen has the sharp edge of the silk plush covered formed hats.