Toppers Unite

[dnjan]

Apologies if this has already been covered - I got tired of trying to search for the correct time of day to wear a top hat.

So - what is the proper time of day to wear a top hat (with appropriate formalwear, of course)?
And, if the event starts during the "proper time" but will end later, will a top hat still be acceptable?

 

[deeoeraclea]

white tie frock suit morning wear you usually change into opera hats past 18:00 however it is okay to wear regular top hats past 18 they can be worn from early in the morning well into the evening as long as attire is apropriate (tailcoats frock coats and cutaways)

 

[deeoeraclea]

the frock coat is the knee length predecessor to the suit coat a cutaway like a frock coat usually extends to the knees but unlike a frock coat it cuts away in the front creating a triangular opening a tailcoat similar to a cutaway opens in the front but that is were the similarities end as the tailcoat extends further down towards the back creating a tail silhouette in not to dissimilar an appearance to the tail feathers of a bird or the folded op wings of an insect another key feature to note is the split in the back is far more prevalent in tailcoats and frock coats than in cutaways (long vent)

just to clarify i meant 6 pm when i wrote 18

 

[dnjan]

Thank you!

 

[Zoukatron]

the frock coat is the knee length predecessor to the suit coat a cutaway like a frock coat usually extends to the knees but unlike a frock coat it cuts away in the front creating a triangular opening a tailcoat similar to a cutaway opens in the front but that is were the similarities end as the tailcoat extends further down towards the back creating a tail silhouette in not to dissimilar an appearance to the tail feathers of a bird or the folded op wings of an insect another key feature to note is the split in the back is far more prevalent in tailcoats and frock coats than in cutaways (long vent)

just to clarify i meant 6 pm when i wrote 18

Deeoeraclea, without trying to sound snarky, can you please use some punctuation in your posts. I appreciate that you're trying to share information, but the reader has to spend time trying to work out where sentences and phrases begin and end - it is very off putting to read.

 

[deeoeraclea]

i do apologise it's just that the english punctuation system is a bit confusing however apologise do not make up for mistakes and i will have to try and at least divide sentences up in a more obiovius manner i apprieciate the reminder

 

[Zoukatron]

The main thing is the just making it clear where a sentence begins and where it ends, which is more or less universal across all languages.

 

[draws]

I have, what I think, may be an Edwardian period Beaver/Silk top hat. I am curious if anyone would have any idea if it is of that period or, if not, how old it would be. The Emblem is Order or The Garter "Noni Soit Qui Maly Pense" and "Diu Et Mon Droit" inner emblem, where it might have been made. I'm thinking English, or perhaps France, but cannot be sure. I would appreciate any thoughts in this area as well. I am not an expert and would be eager to learn from your comments/feedback. Much appreciated.

 

[mayserwegener]

Dennis, Is the sweatband stitched at the seam? Is there a paper label behind the sweatband (if so photos)? The "Order or The Garter" can be generic so hard to say the country origin. Where did you find it? Also larger photos would help.

 

[draws]

Dennis, Is the sweatband stitched at the seam? Is there a paper label behind the sweatband (if so photos)? The "Order or The Garter" can be generic so hard to say the country origin. Where did you find it? Also larger photos would help.

Yes, The sweatband is stitched at the seam and there is a fairly old paper behind the sweatband "7 1/8" Scroll letters - "M F" Looks really old and a reference number 22 (for repurchase I think)? I picked this up in a private sale a number of years ago. Don't even remember what I paid for it

 

[mayserwegener]

Sorry I meant the seam at the rear of the sweatband. I can see it's taped from the paper label photo. What are the initials on the paper label?

 

[draws]

Sorry I meant the seam at the rear of the sweatband. I can see it's taped from the paper label photo. What are the initials on the paper label?

Sorry, I misunderstood. The Initials are italicized "M" and "F". Also are 2 photos of the seam and bow. NOTE: I looked behind the seam and it is taped but didn't lift the lining out for fear that the stitching would come undone where the liner attaches to the brim.

 

[mayserwegener]

I can't place the initials but maybe someone else can. I assume it's an U.S. size 7 1/8? (English size 7 1/8 = U.S. size 7 1/4) I tend to think that is later than Edwardian but just a guess.

 

[draws]

I can't place the initials but maybe someone else can. I assume it's an U.S. size 7 1/8? (English size 7 1/8 = U.S. size 7 1/4) I tend to think that is later than Edwardian but just a guess.

Thank you for your reviews and response. My only concern new is that part of the lining stitching has come undone and needs to be re-stitched. Any ideas on redoing the stitching would be helpful since I really don't want to make it any worse than it already is. Appreciated.

 

[mayserwegener]

Do you mean the sweatband stitches? If so the holes are still present in the sweatband so it might be possible to replace the popped stitches. This would take a lot of patience because of the fine stitches.

 

[DaveSobel]

I have, what I think, may be an Edwardian period Beaver/Silk top hat. I am curious if anyone would have any idea if it is of that period or, if not, how old it would be. The Emblem is Order or The Garter "Noni Soit Qui Maly Pense" and "Diu Et Mon Droit" inner emblem, where it might have been made. I'm thinking English, or perhaps France, but cannot be sure. I would appreciate any thoughts in this area as well. I am not an expert and would be eager to learn from your comments/feedback. Much appreciated. View attachment 111123 View attachment 111124 View attachment 111125 View attachment 111126

From what I recall, “Diu et Mon Droit” is the slogan of the French kings, so I’d say more likely French than English. Or perhaps made somewhere in Quebec by a maker that had an affinity for the old French monarchy.

 

[DaveSobel]

From what I recall, “Diu et Mon Droit” is the slogan of the French kings, so I’d say more likely French than English. Or perhaps made somewhere in Quebec by a maker that had an affinity for the old French monarchy.

Please disregard the last comment. I did a quick Google search, and the Order of the Garter is an English order of chivalry. It appears that this probably belonged to a knight of the order based upon what i just read. Since the order is headed by the King or Queen, and the knights are chosen directly by them. I doubt it would be allowed to put the arms of the order in hats for everyday people.

 

[steur]

Sorry, I misunderstood. The Initials are italicized "M" and "F". Also are 2 photos of the seam and bow. NOTE: I looked behind the seam and it is taped but didn't lift the lining out for fear that the stitching would come undone where the liner attaches to the brim.
View attachment 111140 View attachment 111141

I agree with Steve. It's probably later than Edwardian. The slogan was widely used by hatters, both English, French, Dutch and Belgian. The French hatters who specialized in top hats traveled around and settled in different countries and started hat-industries there. At that time everything French to do with fashion was in high demand, so as a marketing strategy suppliers tried their best to make everything appear French in origin.

 

[splintercellsz]

1880s-1890s J. MILLER KELLY grey felt top hat

Has a corrugated sweatband, and was cut away to show off this feature. Very neat

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[splintercellsz]

Pre- April 28, 1892 W.H. Saunders top hat

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