Today's Pinup Fashion a Sly Wink to the Past - New York Times

[William Stratford]

I don't have the slightest illusion that this trend will ever be reversed. We've skidded too far down the slope, and I don't expect any of us can do anything toward changing it on a mass scale. All we can do is dig in all the deeper as individuals -- we may be washed over by the tide, but we don't have to be swept along with it.

I'm not quite so cynical (or perhaps not quite so realistic ) but suspect that it is within most people to remember how to cherish, and thus take care rather than sink into "meh, whatever"....its just a matter of finding how to re-awaken that in them.

 

[Miss Golightly]

I agree with you 100% on the moral relativism aspect, Lizzie. Heck, I agree with all of what you said. I think that is what is at the heart of all this, and as a parent, it makes me more determined than ever to raise my daughter WITH a good, solid sense of morality - and it will be the morality I was raised with, and not this new fangled version put forth by society nowadays.

I strongly agree too! I was lucky to be raised with a strong sense of right/wrong and self worth by my Mum and all the good advice she gave me is going to be passed onto my own daughter. I do try to concentrate on positive things (this is sometimes difficult in this day and age) but I do think that there are still many young people who have a good sense of morality, kindness and responsibility - and they, more than my generation, have much more to deal with growing up (when I think of what an innocent teen I was - even into my twenties!) - I feel for young people now, I really do.

However, I was heartened to see an article titled "Bye-bye Bad Girls" in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago and it was all about young Irish teenage girls seeking better role models and the continued rise of feminism in Ireland - well it makes me feel that all is not lost and that there are still young people out there who have a similar mindset to many of the posters here - my glass is still half full....

 

[AmateisGal]

I strongly agree too! I was lucky to be raised with a strong sense of right/wrong and self worth by my Mum and all the good advice she gave me is going to be passed onto my own daughter. I do try to concentrate on positive things (this is sometimes difficult in this day and age) but I do think that there are still many young people who have a good sense of morality, kindness and responsibility - and they, more than my generation, have much more to deal with growing up (when I think of what an innocent teen I was - even into my twenties!) - I feel for young people now, I really do.

However, I was heartened to see an article titled "Bye-bye Bad Girls" in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago and it was all about young Irish teenage girls seeking better role models and the continued rise of feminism in Ireland - well it makes me feel that all is not lost and that there are still young people out there who have a similar mindset to many of the posters here - my glass is still half full....

I love your optimism! I think that we, as parents, can do an awful lot toward reversing or at least improving these trends. I feel the same way - I was a very innocent teenager, too - but I look at everything my daughter has to contend with and I really just want to put her in a bubble until she's about 30 (and I'm pretty sure my husband would be ok with that...I do not envy the first boy that takes her on a date!). lol

 

[sheeplady]

I was also extremely upset that apparently saying the 'n' word - a racial slur - only shortened without the 'er and just with an 'a' - is not only allowed, but common, as well, even by his African-American friends.

There are some people in the African American community that see using the "n" word as taking back power- taking a word that was previously offensive and used to exert power over their race. If they use it, they see it as removing the power from the people who use it in a derogatory way. There are other people in the community who view the use of the word by other members of the community as disgusting and teach their children never to use it. There's probably a lot of people who fall in the middle. And there's probably people who haven't thought deeply about it and either use it or don't.

Regardless, it is *never* acceptable for a non-African American (non-AA) to use it. A non-AA person can never understand the implications of using the word to refer to another person. Just because someone calls themselves or a friend the "n" word doesn't mean it's ok for a non-AA person to do the same. I don't know if your son is AA or not, but if he's not, it's really unacceptable and distasteful for him to use it. It doesn't matter if his friends are cool with it, it makes him look racist.

 

[AmateisGal]

There are some people in the African American community that see using the "n" word as taking back power- taking a word that was previously offensive and used to exert power over their race. If they use it, they see it as removing the power from the people who use it in a derogatory way. There are other people in the community who view the use of the word by other members of the community as disgusting and teach their children never to use it. There's probably a lot of people who fall in the middle. And there's probably people who haven't thought deeply about it and either use it or don't.

Regardless, it is *never* acceptable for a non-African American (non-AA) to use it. A non-AA person can never understand the implications of using the word to refer to another person. Just because someone calls themselves or a friend the "n" word doesn't mean it's ok for a non-AA person to do the same. I don't know if your son is AA or not, but if he's not, it's really unacceptable and distasteful for him to use it. It doesn't matter if his friends are cool with it, it makes him look racist.

No, he's not African-American and yes, it does make him look like a racist despite him having several African-American friends. I really don't understand why they don't say something to him about it because at this point, I think he would listen to him more than he would his parents (he's almost 19 so I guess he doesn't think his parents are "with it" anymore...).

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I love your optimism! I think that we, as parents, can do an awful lot toward reversing or at least improving these trends. I feel the same way - I was a very innocent teenager, too - but I look at everything my daughter has to contend with and I really just want to put her in a bubble until she's about 30 (and I'm pretty sure my husband would be ok with that...I do not envy the first boy that takes her on a date!). lol

But that's one of the joys of having daughters: playing headgames with their boyfriends when they're old enough to date!

"Now son, I trust you WILL have my little princess home at a decent hour."

BTW, I'm surprised nobody's corrected the title yet!

Today's Pinup Fashipn a Sly Wink to the Past - New York Times

 

[AmateisGal]

There's a funny t-shirt design going around that says: DADD - Dads Against Daughters Dating. lol My hubby wants one!

 

[jamespowers]

I love your optimism! I think that we, as parents, can do an awful lot toward reversing or at least improving these trends. I feel the same way - I was a very innocent teenager, too - but I look at everything my daughter has to contend with and I really just want to put her in a bubble until she's about 30 (and I'm pretty sure my husband would be ok with that...I do not envy the first boy that takes her on a date!). lol

Us parents with young boys don't have it too easy either. My son is probably the cleanest and politest child in his class but geez, the girls are already after the poor guy and he is only in Kindergarten. He comes home and tells me that so and so keeps kissing me and so and so wants to play with me etc. Girls start young nowadays! My job is mostly teaching him restraint and moderation in all that he does but these girls have none of these. lol lol They even try to curry favor with me when I come in because I am his father. lol lol lol I am going to have to teach him to run faster.

 

[jamespowers]

But that's one of the joys of having daughters: playing headgames with their boyfriends when they're old enough to date!

"Now son, I trust you WILL have my little princess home at a decent hour."

That would have been one date I would have run away from and not looked back. lol lol There is protective and then there is this.
Looking closer at the photo, perhaps he would have been treated better with a real bowtie.

 

[jamespowers]

There's a funny t-shirt design going around that says: DADD - Dads Against Daughters Dating. lol My hubby wants one!

I am ready for the polo shirt with DASD.

Or maybe this one instead:

 

[AmateisGal]

Us parents with young boys don't have it too easy either. My son is probably the cleanest and politest child in his class but geez, the girls are already after the poor guy and he is only in Kindergarten. He comes home and tells me that so and so keeps kissing me and so and so wants to play with me etc. Girls start young nowadays! My job is mostly teaching him restraint and moderation in all that he does but these girls have none of these. lol lol They even try to curry favor with me when I come in because I am his father. lol lol lol I am going to have to teach him to run faster.

I agree that it goes both ways. It just amazes me the difference in kids. On the last day of school this year (my daughter finished sixth grade), she was bound and determined to get a boy's phone number that she liked. She didn't - she was too shy, and she was SO upset with herself. She barely talked to him through the school year, nevermind trying to kiss or hug him! She's always been a shy one, though she blossomed a lot in middle school. But she can go ahead and be shy around boys for quite awhile longer! lol

 

[AmateisGal]

I am ready for the polo shirt with DASD.

Or maybe this one instead:

I think I just found my husband's Father's Day gift...

 

[jamespowers]

I agree that it goes both ways. It just amazes me the difference in kids. On the last day of school this year (my daughter finished sixth grade), she was bound and determined to get a boy's phone number that she liked. She didn't - she was too shy, and she was SO upset with herself. She barely talked to him through the school year, nevermind trying to kiss or hug him! She's always been a shy one, though she blossomed a lot in middle school. But she can go ahead and be shy around boys for quite awhile longer! lol

The unfortunate part is that shy girls will get left in the dust by all these forward girls. It is just insane. Sixth grade is still too young, to me, for that kind of stuff anyway. She should count herself lucky.

 

[jamespowers]

I think I just found my husband's Father's Day gift...

I don't even have to wear it. My sons know already.

 

[AmateisGal]

The unfortunate part is that shy girls will get left in the dust by all these forward girls. It is just insane. Sixth grade is still too young, to me, for that kind of stuff anyway. She should count herself lucky.

Yeah, I think it's too young, too. I'm glad she's nowhere near close to any of it! Middle school is tough enough as it is...

 

[C-dot]

So many people fought so hard to make that word invalid and here our youth think it's funny. Maybe that's okay. I don't think so, but again, seems like the old ways are becoming shadows and folks like us are more or less disappearing.

I don't think its okay at all, either. What counts as socially acceptable today just seems backward to me. Women fought for years to be able to do the simple things that men could do (voting, riding a horse astride or even walking through a bank) and women these days hate the title "feminist". Martin Luther King dedicated his life for his people to become something more than just "n****rs*, and now the term is not only a sign of brevity, those same people want segregated schools again. I could go on.

Maybe history has come full circle - What was bad has now ironically become good.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I don't think its okay at all, either. What counts as socially acceptable today just seems backward to me. Women fought for years to be able to do the simple things that men could do (voting, riding a horse astride or even walking through a bank) and women these days hate the title "feminist". Martin Luther King dedicated his life for his people to become something more than just "n****rs*, and now the term is not only a sign of brevity, those same people want segregated schools again. I could go on.

Maybe history has come full circle - What was bad has now ironically become good.

It is funny that in the '60s and early '70s feminism embraced the "Free Love" ethos of the period but by the late '80s, early '90s with the advent of HIV and Political Correctness it rediscovered a sort of Neo-Victorianism in terms of outlook.

I do pick the darndest places to go dancing, don't I?

 

[sheeplady]

It is funny that in the '60s and early '70s feminism embraced the "Free Love" ethos of the period but by the late '80s, early '90s with the advent of HIV and Political Correctness it rediscovered a sort of Neo-Victorianism in terms of outlook.

I think that's less a statement about Feminism and more a statement about a generation. The boomers are the generation that extolled both "free love" and "greed is good." Somewhere along the way all that love and affection towards everybody got turned into people looking for lots of money, no matter how they got it.

(I'm not saying that all boomers felt that way, but that was the "popular culture" that was pushed by some of it's members.)

 

[AmateisGal]

So as an update to the 'n' word situation with my stepson...I asked him about it last night and he said that his African-American friends actually TOLD him he could say it. When he was living with his mom in Louisville, Kentucky, he played on his school's football team that was mostly African-Americans and he said they told him he could say it, too. I still told him I didn't think he should say it. This was all very bizarre to me. It makes me wonder about how language changes - are the youth of today going to make the insult of this word obsolete?

 

[Atticus Finch]

While I’m not yet ready to advocate using the F-word, the N-word, the C-word and the whatever-else word in everyday conversation, I am also absolutely convinced that it is the suppression of those words that gives them such detrimental power.

AF