Today's Pinup Fashion a Sly Wink to the Past - New York Times

[Amy Jeanne]

There's a guy who favorites every picture I post that has a prominent elbow and he asks me to share them with an elbow Flickr group.

lol

I've seen the armpit fetish Flickr group. Sometimes when I have troubles sleeping I like to listen to a woman on YouTube whisper stuff (her name is gentlewhispering). Sometimes she does POV videos, like she has "Eye doctor's visit" and "Jewelry salesperson." My husband tells me this is a form of porn/fetish videos. Everything!!!!

 

[MissMittens]

OMG lol!!! I hadn't heard of this particular fetish before, I thought I'd heard it all.....lol

 

[Feraud]

I was having trouble starting my car the other day, and was looking up possible fixes online -- and stumbled across a whole bunch of weird grainy videos of women having trouble starting cars. Apparently there are people who find such situations stimulating. I'll never be able to call AAA again without wondering what the guy on the other end of the phone is up to.

My wife had a Flickr account for a very brief time. She stopped posting after the fetish creeps kept emailing and asking for odd mundane photos.
You seem to be one of the few women who has a problem with the fetishization of the commonplace aspect of being a female. Too bad there are not more who share this sensibility.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Boy howdy, this has really taken a turn for the kinky. lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

Fetishization of "The Other" is the surest sign there is of a society that's a long damn way from truly "embracing diversity."

 

[MissMittens]

Time for a safeword in the lounge?

 

[Feraud]

I've never believed for a second that most people who go on about "I'm OK, you're OK" have this burning need for social diversity. Rather they are looking to justify their own actions. Big difference.
If you look at the level of fetishes there is something obviously seriously wrong with people. All of this "Don't judge me!" whining comes off as emotionally immature.

 

[MissMittens]

I've never believed for a second that most people who go on about "I'm OK, you're OK" have this burning need for social diversity. Rather they are looking to justify their own actions. Big difference.
If you look at the level of fetishes there is something obviously seriously wrong with people. All of this "Don't judge me!" whining comes off as emotionally immature.

I admit that there is something wrong with me One could say that having an affinity with the past is a "fetish", in the truest sense of the word.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If two consenting adults want to smear each other in Hershey's syrup while singing show tunes, or to dress up like Seabiscuit and run around the yard or whatever, that's their own business. When it becomes someone else's business is when someone else is used as the object of the fetish without their knowledge or consent. Some creep standing around the mall shooting surrepititious videos of random women bending over to tie their shoes or whatever is not someone I'm especially interested in being tolerant of.

 

[MissMittens]

If two consenting adults want to smear each other in Hershey's syrup while singing show tunes, or to dress up like Seabiscuit and run around the yard or whatever, that's their own business. When it becomes someone else's business is when someone else is used as the object of the fetish without their knowledge or consent. Some creep standing around the mall shooting surrepititious videos of random women bending over to tie their shoes or whatever is not someone I'm especially interested in being tolerant of.

You raise a good point. It all comes down to an issue of respect.

 

[LolitaHaze]

Not to mention that not all burlesque performers are dancers or even remove any clothing. I have a good friend who performs with a burlesque troupe who has never removed a stitch of clothing. She's a contortionist not a dancer.

I am going to argue (nicely) this point. Burlesque is comedy and striptease. While I don't take away from anything your friend does (as I can't even touch my toes) they would be a contortionist in a Burlesque show and not a Burlesque performer. Once again not taking anything away from her as a performer.

 

[LolitaHaze]

Hah! I feel so rejected. I was on Flickr for years and never once did anyone ask me for off the wall photos. I am disappointed in myself. LOL

 

[Undertow]

...i'm overweight, but i really don't much care about helth. I'd like to be thinner purely because i am vain. So far, my love of food has been stronger than my vanity, so i remain overweight.

Yes, Me too! :eusa_clap

 

[Edward]

Not to mention that not all burlesque performers are dancers or even remove any clothing. I have a good friend who performs with a burlesque troupe who has never removed a stitch of clothing. She's a contortionist not a dancer.

Mmn. The better nights on in the UK now all call themselves "cabaret" - burlesque has, through becoming trendy, become alsmost a by-word for derivative, low-quality nights that provide no variety. The sort of stuff run by a sleazy promoter who smells money in a trend and thinks "I'll get the regular stripper girls and put some basques on them" - when in reality it's a very different market looking for very different things (and I say that as a simple statement of fact, with no moral judgement implied).

Fetishization of "The Other" is the surest sign there is of a society that's a long damn way from truly "embracing diversity."

I think you have a point there.

If two consenting adults want to smear each other in Hershey's syrup while singing show tunes, or to dress up like Seabiscuit and run around the yard or whatever, that's their own business. When it becomes someone else's business is when someone else is used as the object of the fetish without their knowledge or consent. Some creep standing around the mall shooting surrepititious videos of random women bending over to tie their shoes or whatever is not someone I'm especially interested in being tolerant of.

Exactly. Within those parameters I only take exception to exhibitionists if they too are exploiting others by involving them unwillingly in their activities.

I am going to argue (nicely) this point. Burlesque is comedy and striptease. While I don't take away from anything your friend does (as I can't even touch my toes) they would be a contortionist in a Burlesque show and not a Burlesque performer. Once again not taking anything away from her as a performer.

It's interesting you define it that way - not implying you're wrong at all, just genuinely interesting you distinguish between the two like that. Where would you see the term "vaudeville" fitting in - and what's the relationship between those and "cabaret"?

Can I also ask if you would distinguish between the concept of "stripping" and "striptease"? I find myself using all sorts of words here with assumed connotations - genuinely interested how someone in the US performance circuit interprets it all.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

If two consenting adults want to smear each other in Hershey's syrup while singing show tunes, or to dress up like Seabiscuit and run around the yard or whatever, that's their own business. When it becomes someone else's business is when someone else is used as the object of the fetish without their knowledge or consent. Some creep standing around the mall shooting surrepititious videos of random women bending over to tie their shoes or whatever is not someone I'm especially interested in being tolerant of.

This. But I still have to lol!!!!!

 

[LolitaHaze]

It's interesting you define it that way - not implying you're wrong at all, just genuinely interesting you distinguish between the two like that. Where would you see the term "vaudeville" fitting in - and what's the relationship between those and "cabaret"?

Can I also ask if you would distinguish between the concept of "stripping" and "striptease"? I find myself using all sorts of words here with assumed connotations - genuinely interested how someone in the US performance circuit interprets it all.

The most famous version of Vaudeville was indeed a variety show. It was more wholesome entertainment that was a variety show. A mish mosh of entertainment. (Strangely enough, early early early beginnings of Vaudeville were low brow and bawdy -- much like the yet to be born Burlesque show that we know). Burlesque was the poor man's Vaudeville and was a show of blue comedy and striptease. (*maybe* a novelty act here and there, but the format was comedy and strip). To me (and this is just to me as I don't have any true cabaret experience) cabaret is song and dance. I say many people's perceptions of (Hollywood style) Burlesque is really that of a cabaret show. Modern Burlesque has blended both Vaudeville and Burlesque and Cabaret all into one package. But, based on conversations with legends of what a Burlesque show is, I feel that many of today's novelty performers are just that novelty and not Burlesque. For me it is like me a Burlesque performer taking part in a sideshow - show. I am not a sideshow performer because I am in their show -- I am Burlesque in a sideshow.

So quickly the traditional formats of the show are:

Vaudeville: Variety
Burlesque: Comedy and Striptease
Cabaret: Song and Dance

Today the shows all blend together since stage entertainment isn't what it once used to be outside of Vegas and New York.

Stripping and striptease are the same thing. Ideally striptease implies there will be more act and theatrics versus just taking it off. However, both are the removal of clothing and therefore both are stripping. But even here in the US you will find people who get upset when you call them a [Burlesque] stripper because they want to differentiate that they put more theatrics and thought into their work and they want people to know they are not a pole dancer. I can only relate it to those here that do their best to look 40s and get annoyed when someone says they are 50s or 60s. Both are vintage, just 2 different kinds of vintage. Does that make sense?

 

[Flicka]

What the French called cabaret in the late 19th century, we called varieté (which is the same word as variety, right?) in Sweden - it meant the exact same thing. I know because my great-great grand mother was a cabaret/varieté singer. The poor woman came here to perform and got stuck in Sweden as a single mother. The funny thing was that in her old age she was beyond prudish despite apparently being a quite risqué performer once.

 

[MissMittens]

This. But I still have to lol!!!!!

Lol!! Got to love Philly

 

[MissMittens]

What the French called cabaret in the late 19th century, we called varieté (which is the same word as variety, right?) in Sweden - it meant the exact same thing. I know because my great-great grand mother was a cabaret/varieté singer. The poor woman came here to perform and got stuck in Sweden as a single mother. The funny thing was that in her old age she was beyond prudish despite apparently being a quite risqué performer once.

That's interesting......I know someone who was the most prudish person I ever met, only to find out she spent her early years as an exotic dancer. Seems that the more vociferous someone is about moral values, the more likely it is that they're the last one who should be talking about it

 

[AmateisGal]

That's interesting......I know someone who was the most prudish person I ever met, only to find out she spent her early years as an exotic dancer. Seems that the more vociferous someone is about moral values, the more likely it is that they're the last one who should be talking about it

Or that they had a big change of heart and don't want others going along the same path. Just a thought...