Today in History

[Lean'n'mean]

and where humanity would be now if such works had been widely known.

Pretty much where it is now.

 

[MissMittens]

Pretty much where it is now.

I don't think that's true, particularly in the fields of medicine and astronomy.

Galileo was imprisoned for heresy and his works actively suppressed for CENTURIES because he challenged geocentrism with his discovery that Copernicus' theory of a heliocentric universe was supported by planetary motion. DaVinci, Michaelangelo, and others, particularly those who participated in dissection and mapping the human body, were also imprisoned, killed, and had their works suppressed by the Church.

The Catholic Church needed an explanation for Galileo's telescope that fitted with Christian theology. The solution, proposed by Leo Allatius, a Vatican librarian in the seventeenth century, was that Jesus' foreskin had been resurrected along with the rest of his body, had ascended to the heavens as he had, and was now encircling the planet Saturn. His theory was set out in a treatise entitled De Praeputio Domini Nostri Jesu Christi Diatriba (A Discussion of the Foreskin of Our Lord Jesus Christ).

This was written in law of many Catholic countries, by Papal Bull (order of the Pope) in the 1200's:

"No cleric may be put in command of mercenaries or crossbowmen or suchlike men of blood; nor may a subdeacon, deacon or priest practise the art of surgery, which involves cauterizing and making incisions..."

It didn't end there. The Reformation brought little relief to proto-scientists. Calvin burned alive scientific pioneers like Michael Servetus. Luther saw logical argument as dangerous to Christianity. He said that "To be a Christian, you must pluck out the eye of Reason" and referred to reason as "The Devil's wh*re". He also said

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."

Even in the 1800's, the Catholic Church forbade both vaccinations, and the research that leads to them. Pope Leo XII (1823-1829) forbade vaccination during a smallpox epidemic because it was "against the natural law."

Had these things not happened, where would we be today in the quest for a cure for cancer? For hereditary ailments? Everything from heart disease, to something as trivial as toenail fungus? Arguably, the anti-science stance of the Vatican and it's leaders, hampered the understanding of science by hundreds of years. And in the modern times, some other religions are now trying to do the same.

 

[GHT]

Many works on science and humanism were censored by the Catholic Church. Still are. The Vatican library is full of books that no longer exist outside of the Vatican because of the Church's success at erasing them from print and society. Makes one wonder just how much scientific progress was stifled over the past 500 years, and where humanity would be now if such works had been widely known.

The Index Librorum Prohibitorum was formally abolished on 14 June 1966 by Pope Paul VI. But, the Latin Church canon law still recommends that works concerning sacred Scripture, theology, canon law, church history, and any writings which specially concern religion or morals, be submitted to the judgment of the local ordinary. The local ordinary consults someone whom he considers competent to give a judgment and, if that person gives the nihil obstat ("nothing forbids") the local ordinary grants the imprimatur ("let it be printed"). Members of religious institutes require the imprimi potest (it can be printed) of their major superior to publish books on matters of religion or morals.

You sound like someone who had doctrine thrust down their throat, and no arguing. There's plenty of us, once free of the shackles and able to read (that which was banned at school,) and make our own judgement, we did just that. And many Christian churches have empty pews because of it.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I don't think that's true, particularly in the fields of medicine and astronomy..

Most advances in both medicine & astronomy have occurred in the 20th century, mainly due to the evolution of human technology. Could this technology & knowledge have been developed centuries ago had there not been religious hindrance, that's debatable but if so, would we be more 'advanced' than we are today ? I doubt it.
Another question one should ask is; If scientific knowledge stiffled by the Catholic church prevented europeans from developing (scientifically) earlier, why is it other nations/civilizations, which didn't have the same religious constraints, were not considerably more technologically advanced (& so more scientifically advanced ) than the poor Europeans ? The answer lies in what allowed the rapid advancements in human knowledge & technology during the 20th century. Once you know that, you will realize that where we are today could not have happened any earlier than it has.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Well, China would like a word with you. They were dealing with advanced mathematical concepts and printing with moveable type when Europeans were still eating their own dung. Had their society not been interfered with by later Europeans, we'd all be speaking Mandarin today.

 

[MissMittens]

Most advances in both medicine & astronomy have occurred in the 20th century, mainly due to the evolution of human technology. Could this technology & knowledge have been developed centuries ago had there not been religious hindrance, that's debatable but if so, would we be more 'advanced' than we are today ? I doubt it.
Another question one should ask is; If scientific knowledge stiffled by the Catholic church prevented europeans from developing (scientifically) earlier, why is it other nations/civilizations, which didn't have the same religious constraints, were not considerably more technologically advanced (& so more scientifically advanced ) than the poor Europeans ? The answer lies in what allowed the rapid advancements in human knowledge & technology during the 20th century. Once you know that, you will realize that where we are today could not have happened any earlier than it has.

It's a common misconception that we weren't more technologically advanced before colonization here. For example, Europeans didn't even bathe, while Native and Indigenous peoples of this land did. The Jamestown colonists couldn't grow food here with their "superior" farming knowledge, and engaged in cannibalism, prompting the nearby Nations to feed them out of pity. Native people genetically engineered corn, and many of the plants grown on these lands that people eat today. We had many brick and stone buildings and many cities the size of London, while the majority of Europe was still living in shacks outside of the landed gentry. Cities such as Cahokia, Sadly, history is often written by the victors, and much has been erased in the name of "progress." Much was abandoned when European diseases were introduced, either accidentally, or in the case of Lord Amherst's attempts at genocide, deliberate acts of biological warfare, forcing a more migratory existence away from places many of our Nations once inhabited. I won't discuss the forced relocations of the late 1800's forcing most Nations onto land that was considered to not be arrable or capable of sustaining life and that was mostly devoid of natural resources with which to build, since that would necessitate discussing politics, and politics is best left outside the Lounge.

Many so-called 21st Century "discoveries" have in the last few years come to prove that we were far more advanced than our European relatives in many areas, a simple search of the hashtag "NativesToldYouSo" on social media will provide examples of cutting-edge modern science proving our ancient wisdom to be scientifically correct.

I'd like to close this out by pointing to the fact that the U.S. Constitution itself was primarily sourced from the understanding between the Mohawk, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, and Seneca Nations, aka the Iroquois Confederacy.
There are many different ways of life, religious doctrines and beliefs, races, and lifestyles, and to compare everything to the modern standards of Western living is a false comparison, since an amalgamation of those created what we all have today.

 

[Fading Fast]

The Romans were very close to inventing a steam engine or, one could say, they did invent it, but didn't think to harness it. If they had, it could be argued, some version of the industrial revolution could have started 1800 or so years before it did. Yes, that's a fast-and-loose way of looking at it, but intriguing none the less.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Had humanity understood the value of using their various technological achievements to cooperate with each other for the common good rather than using them to kill and conquer each other in the name of gods and flags and profit, we'd be a much more advanced civilization all around.

 

[GHT]

On this day, in 1969 the first trial flight of Concorde supersonic jetliner, took place near Bristol, England

 

[EngProf]

It's a common misconception that we weren't more technologically advanced before colonization here. For example, Europeans didn't even bathe, while Native and Indigenous peoples of this land did. The Jamestown colonists couldn't grow food here with their "superior" farming knowledge, and engaged in cannibalism, prompting the nearby Nations to feed them out of pity. Native people genetically engineered corn, and many of the plants grown on these lands that people eat today. We had many brick and stone buildings and many cities the size of London, while the majority of Europe was still living in shacks outside of the landed gentry. Cities such as Cahokia, Sadly, history is often written by the victors, and much has been erased in the name of "progress." Much was abandoned when European diseases were introduced, either accidentally, or in the case of Lord Amherst's attempts at genocide, deliberate acts of biological warfare, forcing a more migratory existence away from places many of our Nations once inhabited. I won't discuss the forced relocations of the late 1800's forcing most Nations onto land that was considered to not be arrable or capable of sustaining life and that was mostly devoid of natural resources with which to build, since that would necessitate discussing politics, and politics is best left outside the Lounge.

Many so-called 21st Century "discoveries" have in the last few years come to prove that we were far more advanced than our European relatives in many areas, a simple search of the hashtag "NativesToldYouSo" on social media will provide examples of cutting-edge modern science proving our ancient wisdom to be scientifically correct.

I'd like to close this out by pointing to the fact that the U.S. Constitution itself was primarily sourced from the understanding between the Mohawk, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, and Seneca Nations, aka the Iroquois Confederacy.
There are many different ways of life, religious doctrines and beliefs, races, and lifestyles, and to compare everything to the modern standards of Western living is a false comparison, since an amalgamation of those created what we all have today.

"I'd like to close this out by pointing to the fact that the U.S. Constitution itself was primarily sourced from the understanding between the Mohawk, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, and Seneca Nations, aka the Iroquois Confederacy."
It seems odd that Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, et al, would have to source their (our) Constitution from a group of Indians living pretty-much in the middle of nowhere when they had almost 900 years of evolving parliamentary democracy and legal principles in their own heritage.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Well, China would like a word with you. They were dealing with advanced mathematical concepts

The same could be said of the Arabs whom after all, gave us the 0 but I don't see it's relevance in the context of this discussion. We are, are we not, trying to evaluate the influence of the Catholic church's suppression of non-creationist scientific theories on the advancement of collective human knowledge.

Had their society not been interfered with by later Europeans, we'd all be speaking Mandarin today.

Exactly, so why were the "later Europeans", hamstrung by the Catholic church for centuries, able to 'interfere' with Chinese "society" & not the other way around ? In the future though, when our western civilization finally falls, which won't be too long now, speaking Mandarin may be a considerable advantage in the new world.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

It's a common misconception that we weren't more technologically advanced before colonization here. For example, Europeans didn't even bathe, while Native and Indigenous peoples of this land did. The Jamestown colonists couldn't grow food here with their "superior" farming knowledge, and engaged in cannibalism, prompting the nearby Nations to feed them out of pity. Native people genetically engineered corn, and many of the plants grown on these lands that people eat today. We had many brick and stone buildings and many cities the size of London, while the majority of Europe was still living in shacks outside of the landed gentry. Cities such as Cahokia, Sadly, history is often written by the victors, and much has been erased in the name of "progress." Much was abandoned when European diseases were introduced, either accidentally, or in the case of Lord Amherst's attempts at genocide, deliberate acts of biological warfare, forcing a more migratory existence away from places many of our Nations once inhabited. I won't discuss the forced relocations of the late 1800's forcing most Nations onto land that was considered to not be arrable or capable of sustaining life and that was mostly devoid of natural resources with which to build, since that would necessitate discussing politics, and politics is best left outside the Lounge.

Many so-called 21st Century "discoveries" have in the last few years come to prove that we were far more advanced than our European relatives in many areas, a simple search of the hashtag "NativesToldYouSo" on social media will provide examples of cutting-edge modern science proving our ancient wisdom to be scientifically correct.

I'd like to close this out by pointing to the fact that the U.S. Constitution itself was primarily sourced from the understanding between the Mohawk, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, and Seneca Nations, aka the Iroquois Confederacy.
There are many different ways of life, religious doctrines and beliefs, races, and lifestyles, and to compare everything to the modern standards of Western living is a false comparison, since an amalgamation of those created what we all have today.

I think we are straying from the inititial point here.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Had humanity understood the value of using their various technological achievements to cooperate with each other for the common good rather than using them to kill and conquer each other in the name of gods and flags and profit, we'd be a much more advanced civilization all around.

You can take a chimpanzee outta the jungle, dress him in fancy duds & teach him to use a knife & fork but he'll always be just a chimp.

 

[MissMittens]

It seems odd that Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, et al, would have to source their (our) Constitution from a group of Indians living pretty-much in the middle of nowhere when they had almost 900 years of evolving parliamentary democracy and legal principles in their own heritage.

“Pretty much in the middle of nowhere” - try the whole of what you call New York and New England, all the way up into QC Canada and beyond....

You can take Jefferson’s word on it if you don’t care to take mine

 

[GHT]

“Pretty much in the middle of nowhere” - try the whole of what you call New York and New England, all the way up into QC Canada and beyond....

You can take Jefferson’s word on it if you don’t care to take mine

There's something of an irony to that. Years ago I saw President Nixon giving a eulogy on TV to Bob Hope. Among all the sycophantic, obsequious fawning, Nixon said: The British gave us many things, our system of governance, our judiciary, the rule of law, our civil service and by no means least, Bob Hope. If President Nixon said it, then it must be true.
On this day in 1913, Richard Nixon was born.

Another famous birthday is that of Katherine, Duchess of Cambridge.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

“You can take Jefferson’s word on it if you don’t care to take mine

That is more senator Mike Lee's word than it is Jefferson's.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

On this day in 1806, Lord Horatio Nelson was buried at St. Paul's Cathedral.

On this day in 1976, Sylvester Stallone started filming the movie, 'Rocky'

 

[MissMittens]

That is more senator Mike Lee's word than it is Jefferson's.

You can lead someone to history, but you can't always make them drink from the fount of knowledge. Anyway, back to history of today

 

[MissMittens]

Today in 1908, Count von Zeppelin announced his plans for a 100 passenger version of his dirigible.

On this day in 1924, Ford Motor Company in Michigan became the first billion dollar company.

 

[3fingers]

On this day in 1924, Ford Motor Company in Michigan became the first billion dollar company.

Not bad for a guy that not many years before was trying to build a car after work in his coal shed.