To fix or not to fix, that is the question

[Al Niente]

I would like to hear your opinions regarding vintage hat sweatbands. Many of them have stitching that has rotted dry and tears, or the leather is cracked and either not funtional or uncomfortable to wear. In such a case, should one replace the sweatband? Try to repair what is there? Repair with new and keep the old one as a keepsake? How do you think this affects the "vintage" worth of the hat?

Would you bother trying to fix up a vintage box? What if the box was covered in "wood grain" paper and is now completely faded and peeling? Recover and keep the lable?

I recently bought a nice Courtney with a box. The sweatband's stiching was totally rotten and just pulled out while cleaning. I had it replaced and kept the old band just to keep them together. The box is a disaster. The front lable is intact, but the lid is in pieces and it was covered with "woodgrain" paper. I was thinking of rebuildnig the top with new paper and covering all leaving the label showing. I am interested in hearing how others have handled such situations.

 

[CaptainB]

I recently bought a Homburg which apparently was stretched too much, as the sweatband and the ribbon were ripped apart. I gave it to my hatter and had the band sewn back together and a new leather sweat put in. As the new band is a little thicker the hat is slightly tight, but this will change with some wearings. I too kept the original sweatband.

I think it's ok to repair/exchange what's necessary if you plan on wearing the hat, if otherwise it would just stay in it's box and doesn't get any use at all.

Best regards,
Captain B

 

[ScionPI2005]

I think that if you want a hat to be functional and wearable (vintage or not), it must be in fairly decent shape. I don't think there's anything wrong with replacing a sweatband when its needed. You're basically giving the hat a new lease on life.

Now if your only purpose is to preserve and display a vintage hat, you may not want the sweatband replaced. That's a different story.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

If the hat is to be worn why would you want that cracked sweatband on your head?? It has to be uncomfortable and scratchy.

Make it yours...Wear it well!!


By the way welcome to the Lounge

 

[Aureliano]

I agree with Carlisle Blues. Having said that I went nuts about restoring the sweatband of my Knox Vagabond (and the hat istself). As in your hat, the sweatband of mine was completely rotten except for a couple of parts. One of them, the area with the name of the hat. I was fortunate to find an old sweatband and did a crafty restoration. Take a look here, post # 31 http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=42504&page=2

Hope it helps and gives you an idea. Welcome to this place, you are going to love it!

 

[gtdean48]

If the hat is to be worn why would you want that cracked sweatband on your head?? It has to be uncomfortable and scratchy.

Make it yours...Wear it well!!


By the way welcome to the Lounge

:arated: I buy hats to wear & won't put a degraded sweatband next to my noggin unless my noggin did the degrading. Keep the original in the box or someplace if you are into that but the felt needs to be functional & in service.

 

[High Pockets]

At this early point in my "I'm nuts about old hats" life, wearing them is my passion,....I've yet to enter the "collecting" phase. Therefore, I couldn't agree more with Carlisle Blues and everyone else.

I've had the sweatbands replaced in two Borsalinos, one Royal Stetson and, a Portis. They were all in pretty bad shape and I really didn't want the nasty things wrapped around my head all day.

Now, I will admit that I do something a little silly I guess,....I gently remove all the old paper tags and re-apply them in their original location as soon as the hat comes back from Optimo. I also clean and send the old bow along with the hat to have it sewn to the new sweat when it's restored. That way; the only thing that isn't original is the leather band, and the old one is put away in case I want it to sell the hat at some point in the future.

Welcome to the Lounge.

 

[avedwards]

I've had the sweatbands replaced in two Borsalinos, one Royal Stetson and, a Portis. They were all in pretty bad shape and I really didn't want the nasty things wrapped around my head all day.

Just wondering, when Optimo restores a hat for you what sort of a sweat band and (when necessary) lining do they use? I'm guessing a plain sweatband or a plain lining, or are they allowed to ask Hatco for permission to use the Stetson logo for old Stetson hats?

 

[gtdean48]

Just wondering, when Optimo restores a hat for you what sort of a sweat band and (when necessary) lining do they use? I'm guessing a plain sweatband or a plain lining, or are they allowed to ask Hatco for permission to use the Stetson logo for old Stetson hats?

My Stetson OR came back with plain lining & plain sweatband, doubt HatCo would allow such unless they set up some "licensed" restorer program...

 

[avedwards]

My Stetson OR came back with plain lining & plain sweatband, doubt HatCo would allow such unless they set up some "licensed" restorer program...

I suppose so. It's sad because I think it would be nice for a vintage Stetson to have the Stetson crest, even if from the wrong era. Perhaps the suggestion needs to be made to Hatco (and other hatters like Borsalino and Christys) to allow hat restorers to use their logos on original hats. It wouldn't be false advertising after all since the same company whose name Hatco bought made the hat in the first place.

Maybe I'll send Hatco a PM to suggest the idea.

 

[gtdean48]

I suppose so. It's sad because I think it would be nice for a vintage Stetson to have the Stetson crest, even if from the wrong era. Perhaps the suggestion needs to be made to Hatco (and other hatters like Borsalino and Christys) to allow hat restorers to use their logos on original hats. It wouldn't be false advertising after all since the same company whose name Hatco bought made the hat in the first place.

Maybe I'll send Hatco a PM to suggest the idea.

Best business case would be for HatCo to make "Stetson" sweatbands available for restorers to purchase with restriction to be only used on original Stetson felts. Hatters could pass on the cost to customer by offering generic or brand name replacement... just brainstorming but doubt the money is there for them to put up with the hassle... [huh]

 

[High Pockets]

avedwards, the new sweats from Optimo have no logo on them. Not too sure about the liners,..I can answer that this-afternoon when UPS delivers the Royal Stetson. When I sent them the first Borsalino I was afraid it would come back with an embossed sweatband, and was quite happy to find it wasn't.
I did send an email to Borsalino to see if I could send them the old sweatband as proof I had the hat and asked it they would be kind enough to sell me a new sweatband,..........I guess they can't read English. :rage:

 

[avedwards]

Best business case would be for HatCo to make "Stetson" sweatbands available for restorers to purchase with restriction to be only used on original Stetson felts. Hatters could pass on the cost to customer by offering generic or brand name replacement... just brainstorming but doubt the money is there for them to put up with the hassle... [huh]

Perhaps the hatters using the replacement sweat bands and linings could sign a legal contract only to use them when appropriate (only on a genuine vintage Stetson). That way, if the hatter can be trusted, Hatco need go through no further trouble than the postage of the sweat bands and the price of them.

 

[Spats McGee]

For what it's worth, I like this "licensed restorer" idea. I don't know if it will make financial sense for HatCo to do it, but if I were going to restore a vintage hat, I think it'd be pretty cool to be able to put a sweatband in that had the original manufacturer's logo.

 

[tonyb]

I got a foot in both camps -- a new sweatband can make for a dramatic improvement in comfort, but then, so much of an old hat's provenance is on its sweatband that those of us who dig the old stuff are understandably reluctant to replace it.

The problem I see in replicating the embossing on vintage sweats, besides the potential (likely?) cost-prohibitiveness and licensing concerns, is that it would still be a fake. It would probably be made of a different type of leather finished with different processes. If it had a reed it would almost certainly be a monofilament plastic (as opposed to the metals that were used on the original). And if it were unreeded and you wished to replace it with the same type, well, good luck finding the shop with the machinery and the knowhow to do that job. And what about the old retailer's marks? Would those be replicated as well? And at what cost? And then there's the composition of the reed tape, and the thread, and the stitch pattern, and ...

Even if cost were no consideration, and all the materials and processes that go into a sweatband could be replicated such that even the most expert observers wouldn't instantly detect the difference between it and the original (very, very unlikely, that) the hat would be "original" only in the way Grandpa's old axe, the one that has had the handle replaced four times and the head twice, is original.

 

[ScottF]

I agree with Carlisle Blues. Having said that I went nuts about restoring the sweatband of my Knox Vagabond (and the hat istself). As in your hat, the sweatband of mine was completely rotten except for a couple of parts. One of them, the area with the name of the hat. I was fortunate to find an old sweatband and did a crafty restoration. Take a look here, post # 31 http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=42504&page=2

Hope it helps and gives you an idea. Welcome to this place, you are going to love it!

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
I really like what you did with the sweatband - saving the logo like that. I have a Knox 20 that will be returning from hat repair in a few days, and I might try to 'insert' the old logo, as you did.

 

[Aureliano]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
I really like what you did with the sweatband - saving the logo like that. I have a Knox 20 that will be returning from hat repair in a few days, and I might try to 'insert' the old logo, as you did.

Thanks! it wasn't too hard. You have to measure carefully so the piece with the logo fits in the open hole. I glued the logo portion with this super (and I mean SUPER) instant bonding glue I use for ship modeling. You have to be careful to just wet the edges because it dries leaving a shinny crust. Good luck!

 

[Lefty]

+1 on pretty much everything here. If it must be replaced, replace it. If it's not too bad, wear it.

As to value, that depends upon the view of the potential bidders. I'm in the camp that wouldn't bid on a hat with a replaced sweat unless the felt was amazing, and I didn't have to spend much. I can understand, however, that many people would be more likely to buy a wearable hat than one with a "dead" sweat.

When it comes to boxes, repair it to use it. There are few boxes that are worth much of anything, so tape away.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Most if not all of the hats I’ve bought have good sweat bands… and if they seem to be on the dry side, I’ll treat them with a leather conditioner to rid its self of dryness and bring it back to soft comfortable leather… if it’s not cracked and rotting away that is.

I have passed on many hats… due to a bad sweat band or rotted out ribbon… and the felt is really dirty… but, if it’s an earlier hat from the 20s or 30s I’ll buy it to see what I can do with it.

Boxes aren’t worth much unless it has amazing graphics and design… only a few are worth keeping… but, if you want to save history and keep it around, enjoy the restoration! But don’t be heartbroken if it doesn’t come out as you’d like or if it falls apart in the process.

Oh and please post photos!

 

[ScottF]

Thanks! it wasn't too hard. You have to measure carefully so the piece with the logo fits in the open hole. I glued the logo portion with this super (and I mean SUPER) instant bonding glue I use for ship modeling. You have to be careful to just wet the edges because it dries leaving a shinny crust. Good luck!

Thanks. I'm thinking of scraping off the back of the logo so that the leather is very thin, then scoring the logo shape in the new sweatband and peeling away the surface layer - that way I'm not actually cutting through the sweatband.