Titanic sunk by exceptionally high tides

[kyboots]

I thought the water just poured over the top of the bulkheads filling one after another when the ship tilted. Why did they not go higher and simply seal the area completely? It was the sixth bulkhead that sank the ship. It could stay afloat with five, but not six flooded! So many ??? why we still talk about it today.The perfect storm ! uh! sinking! Since it sank on April 15, 1912, that's how we chose our income tax day.lol--John

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-full-titanic-mapped-1st-time-174336818.html

 

[Shangas]

I thought the water just poured over the top of the bulkheads filling one after another when the ship tilted. Why did they not go higher and simply seal the area completely? It was the sixth bulkhead that sank the ship. It could stay afloat with five, but not six flooded! So many ??? why we still talk about it today.The perfect storm ! uh! sinking! Since it sank on April 15, 1912, that's how we chose our income tax day.lol--John

I'd love to know where people are getting this number.

The figure is FOUR.

The Titanic's limit was FOUR compartments. Not five.

Five was the numer of compartments that were breeched, not the limit of it's safety.

And while we're on the subject of numbers, one thing that has fascinated me about the sinking of the Titanic is all the watches they picked up off the corpses after the ship went down. They're all frozen at the same time. The ship foundered at 2:20am. These are watches that were recovered from the water:

Time frozen at 2:28am.

Time frozen at 2:20am, when the ship slipped from the surface of the water.

Another one:

Time again, is 2:20am.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I'd love to know where people are getting this number.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/10/25/1483999.htm

http://www.writing.eng.vt.edu/uer/bassett.html

AF

 

[Shangas]

And they're still wrong.

The Titanic sank because of the location of these gashes, not their size. The ship could float with a maximum of four of the 16 watertight holds flooded - but the six holes were over six of them.

I don't know who wrote that article, but they don't know all their Titanic facts. Five compartments, not six. I could show you plenty of evidence to prove this.

Five compartments were opened to the water, not six. The ship could float with four full. But the iceberg opened five. That let in more water than the ship could cope with, even with the pumps (which were never designed to stop the ship sinking anyway).

If six compartments had really been opened up, the ship would've been under water even faster than it already was, because it was pouring in. They had ash-ejector pumps, hand-pumps and hoses all going to keep the water out of Boiler Room #5, but Boiler Room 6, Hold 1, 2 and 3 were full of water, and the forepeak at the very front of the ship.

Five compartments.

If six compartments were flooded, then they wouldn't have bothered trying to pump out the water, which they were doing to the best of their ability anyway.

Here's the ship:

The horizontal green lines indicate the broken plates where water was rushing in. Boiler Room 6, Hold 1, Hold 2, Hold 3, Forepeak. Five Compartments.

Boiler Room 5 would've made the SIXTH compartment, if it had been breeched.

Which it hadn't. It was here that sailors set up pumps and hoses to try and keep the water out. It didn't work, obviously.

Five compartments.

 

[Cobden]

I speak from years of experience using distance-viewing aids, when I say that binoculars would've been of NO help at all to the lookouts on the night.

Even if the lookouts DID have them in their hands at the time...there's such a slim chance that they would've made any difference at all that they may as well not have had them in the first place.

The issue with the wireless operators boils down to lack of proper protocol.

Phillips, the Titanic's head wireless-operato was sending out passenger messages to Cape Race Lighthouse in Newfoundland, the nearest land-station to the Titanic.

The Californian sent this message:

"I say, old boy, we're stopped and surrounded by ice".

The Titanic wired back:

"Shut up! Shut up! I'm busy! I'm working Cape Race!"

What's the issue here?

The Californian is acting like that annoying jerk at the office who comes up to your desk and taps you on the shoulder trying to get your attention.

"Dude...Dude!...Hey dude!...DUUUUUDE!!! There's like...ice out there...dude..."

So the Titanic just ignored him.

The Californian should've sent out: "MSG - ICE WARNING - Lat *etc* Long *etc*".

MSG - Master Service Gram - Official communique from one ship to another. NOT TO BE IGNORED.

Instead, what the Californian sent out was a chatty, informal "what's up, dudes?" which pissed off the Titanic's operator because he wasn't polite enough to send his message using the proper, established rules of radio etiquette of the time. So he just ignored it.

Also, the Californian was pretty close at the time, so its signal would've been blasting into Phillip's headphones like a megaphone, which would've pissed him off even more.

I don't disagree...I was referring as much to the Californian. To be perfectly honest, I doubt Jack Williams would have even had his earphones on when he sent the "Shut up" message. Considering the way the set would have been set up to hear messages from Cape Race, the message from the Californian would have sounded like it was been sent by high pitched air horn from three inches away from your ear; I don't think even the finest professional would have done anything but fling his earphones off and sent a similar message.

 

[Atticus Finch]

This is taken from the article in the second link above...so I'm guessing someone named Gannon was one person who made the assertion in 1995.

On April 14, 1912, however, the Titanic sideswiped a massive iceberg and sank in less than three hours. Damaging nearly 300 feet of the ship's hull, the collision allowed water to flood six of her sixteen major watertight compartments [Gannon, 1995].

But the actual number of compartments that flooded on the Titanic was not the thrust of my post. I was only saying that to call the Titanic's bulkheads "watertight" is a mistake. They clearly weren't. A better term for them may have been "dam" or "fence".

AF

 

[Shangas]

Back on the wireless issue for a minute, I should also point out that it wasn't compulsory for a wireless operator to stay online all night. There was no legal obligation for him to remain at his post and be on the air 24/7.

This didn't become a law until after the Titanic sank, where every ship had to have at least two wireless operators.

Phillips and Bride, Titanic's two wireless-operators, manned the post between them, doing twelve-hour shifts (I believe, 8:00am-8:00pm/shift-change/8:00pm-8:00am. And so-forth). That way, they could provide the ship and passengers, with 24-hour radio contact.

Indeed, it was by PURE good-luck that Phillips contacted the R.M.S. Carpathia (the rescue-ship) at all!

The Carpathia's wireless-operator, Harold Cottam, was actually signing off for the night! He was wandering around his cabin with his earphones on while he was getting dressed, because the captain was expecting a message. If it didn't come soon, he was gonna power off and go to bed.

He very nearly did. He was on the point of shutting off his reciever for the night when this message came in:

"CQD DE MGY" ("Distress/This Is/Titanic").

He turned on his transmitter and started wiring back to Phillips. Their conversation was:

"Distress. This Is. Titanic".
"I say old man, don't you know there's a whole heap of messages waiting for you?"
"Distress, distress".
"Do you require assistance? Should I tell my captain?"
"Yes. Come at once. *Co-ordinates*"

At this point, Cottam ripped off his headphones, ran to the officer on watch and then went to wake up the captain (Sir Arthur Rostron). Rostron turned the ship around and told Cottam to send a message back to the Titanic. Phillips recieved the message about 10 minutes later.

---AtticusFinch---

To say that the bulkheads were watertight is a huge misnomer. They were never watertight. I agree. They were water-resistent, for want of a better term. They would hold back the water, but they wouldn't keep it sealed inside a solid metal box. Whenever someone asks me how the Titanic sank, I tell them to put an ice-cube tray in the bathtrub and fill one end with water and watch the results.

It's not a perfect comparison, obviously, but it shows what happened in a really simple way.

 

[MisterCairo]

From Wikipedia (I know, I know):

At 11.40 pm (ship's time), lookout Frederick Fleet spotted an iceberg immediately ahead of Titanic and alerted the bridge.[SUP][126][/SUP] First Officer William Murdoch ordered the ship to be steered around the obstacle and the engines to be put in reverse,[SUP][127][/SUP] but it was too late; the starboard side of Titanic struck the iceberg, creating a series of holes below the waterline. Five of the ship's watertight compartments were breached. It soon became clear that the ship was doomed, as she could not survive more than four compartments being flooded. Titanic began sinking bow-first, with water spilling from compartment to compartment as her angle in the water became steeper.[SUP][128][/SUP]

 

[Atticus Finch]

All sixteen compartments are flooded now.

AF

 

[MisterCairo]

All sixteen compartments are flooded now.

AF

:eeek::eusa_clap:eeek:

 

[John in Covina]

Yep. A friend of mine used to explain his many traffic citations by saying that he was speeding to save lives. He belived that traffic accidents were predestined for drivers who obeyed speed limits. He, on the other hand, obeyed no traffic laws whatsoever. He believed that he frequently sped through intersections seconds before predestined collisions occured...thereby foiling fate, as it were. He used to smile and say that only God knew how many lives he had saved by not being where he should have been at the exact instant another driver tried to occupy the same spot. AF

Was this from taking non-prescibed meds or from not taking the prescribed ones?

 

[Shangas]

From Wikipedia (I know, I know):

At 11.40 pm (ship's time), lookout Frederick Fleet spotted an iceberg immediately ahead of Titanic and alerted the bridge.[SUP][126][/SUP] First Officer William Murdoch ordered the ship to be steered around the obstacle and the engines to be put in reverse,[SUP][127][/SUP] but it was too late; the starboard side of Titanic struck the iceberg, creating a series of holes below the waterline. Five of the ship's watertight compartments were breached. It soon became clear that the ship was doomed, as she could not survive more than four compartments being flooded. Titanic began sinking bow-first, with water spilling from compartment to compartment as her angle in the water became steeper.[SUP][128][/SUP]

Wikipedia is actually correct in this instance.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Was this from taking non-prescibed meds or from not taking the prescribed ones?

Non-prescribed, usually. Prescribed when we could get our hands on them. But I don't remember Robert not taking any kind of drug.

AF

 

[Treetopflyer]

I revert back to my “Swiss cheese” model and ask the initial question of how was the steel for the Titanic manufactured? I have read that the manufacturing practices of the time differed from today in that the steel that made up the hull was substandard to today’s steel. Not to mention that they used rivets and plates and not the welding techniques of today. Would steel of today hold up to hitting an iceberg under the same conditions. Due to the low grade steel that was used for the plating as well as the rivets, would it have been more brittle in the frigid waters of the North Atlantic?

Also, did the Titanic have the ability to counter flood the aft compartments enough to keep the bow from sinking farther down than it did? It may not have been able to stay afloat for an extended period of time by doing this, but it may have kept it from sinking as fast, thus allowing more time for rescue ships to arrive. The spaces forward flooded thus sinking the bow, then bringing the stern out of the water. This then caused the ship to separate and sink at an accelerated rate. I think if they had the ability to counter flood or ballast it would have prevented that.

 

[Shangas]

I don't like it when people say that the Titanic was made of "substandard steel", because it implies that we're looking at it through modern eyes.

The Titanic's steel was no different from the steel used to make any other ship of the era. It was probably the best steel that they had availlable at the time. But it was not the same quality as what we could produce today.

It's not that it was substandard, it's just that we can make somethig better now. It's substandard by 21st century eyes. Back in 1910 when the ship was being built, it was probably top-quality. The best they had at the time.

 

[dhermann1]

I believe the problem was that they tested it at normal ocean temperatures. They didn't realize that at temps of 34 F or lower it lost strength and became brittle, thus more likely to shatter, as it did.

 

[Treetopflyer]

I don't like it when people say that the Titanic was made of "substandard steel", because it implies that we're looking at it through modern eyes.

The Titanic's steel was no different from the steel used to make any other ship of the era. It was probably the best steel that they had availlable at the time. But it was not the same quality as what we could produce today.

It's not that it was substandard, it's just that we can make somethig better now. It's substandard by 21st century eyes. Back in 1910 when the ship was being built, it was probably top-quality. The best they had at the time.

That was kind of the point I was making. Although, top quality for the day, it was still affected by the water temp and it was not an outstanding product overall and it was a causal factor in the ship sinking.

 

[Shangas]

That was kind of the point I was making. Although, top quality for the day, it was still affected by the water temp and it was not an outstanding product overall and it was a causal factor in the ship sinking.

Was it? I'm sorry. I didn't read any of that in your posting. But yes, while the steel was of quality for its day, they didn't anticipate that the cold water would affect its strength. Basically, everything snapped like toothpicks and shattered like glass. And the Titanic had a Double Bottom, but not double-sides (which might have saved her).

Amazing to think that on ships like that, just a few inches of steel held shut by rivets, was all that protected you from freezing cold water...

 

[dhermann1]

I believe the HMS Hood was made from identical steel. There has been speculation this also contributed to Hood's demise.