Titanic Centennial

[sheeplady]

Impressive but misdirected. You should've rolled it up and hit him on the head with it instead.

It was only two pages long. It literally consisted of "I'm a ___fill in the religion___ terrorist. I yell 'Fill in stereotypical and racist statement' as I fly this plane into a building!" complete with plane sounds and holding your arms out like you were a plane. It wasn't even good or funny in the abstract. I couldn't even get his point. In the end, I guess the powers that ran the show actually physically kept him off stage. I left the group in disgust- I wasn't in college any more but I still used to go to their meetings as an alumnus.

I'll bet the author is one those "Truthers" who believe that 9-11 was an inside job engineered by the CIA.

I have no idea. But during the disucssion (in which I tried to calmly explain that it wasn't appropriate or funny and why) the author told me that he was following in the great tradition of many comedians. He cited Dr. Strangelove as an example of something that is very offensive to Jewish people like himself because it "made fun of murdering millions of Jews" but was a well-accepted and great comedy. If he could laugh at that, why couldn't I laugh at this?

I explained that the equivalent of this script would be locking a bunch of people fleeing Europe (which would probably include a large portion of Jewish individuals directly affected by the Holocaust) in an auditorium for an evening of fun and music. Then without warning of what was coming, making them watch Dr. Strangelove less than 3 years after the end of war. To which I got "You have no sense of humor."

Now I am wondering what happened to that (fill in 7 letter word not appropriate here).

 

[LizzieMaine]

How many times have we heard someone toss off the phrase "like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" as a way of describing a task that's foolish and pointless and loses sight of the larger issues. That phrase only became common currency in the mid-1970s, which suggests that it took a good sixty years for people to start viewing the event as an historical abstraction rather than an event that affected actual people. Probably a good rule of thumb when deciding whether or not to make jokes about such events.

World War II seems to be the odd exception -- it's actually *less* acceptable to make jokes about the war and wartime personalities now than it was during the war itself. With silly newsreels of Hitler dancing the Lambeth Walk, songs like "Der Fuehrer's Face," movies like "The Devil With Hitler," and right down thru the sixties with things like "Hogan's Heroes" and "The Producers", you had the generation that actually experienced the war making fun of it. But since the 1980s it's become less and less socially acceptable to mock Nazis and more and more likely that you'll be given The Look if you even attempt it. I suspect that by the time the last WW2 vet passes on, the war wlll be mentioned only in the grimmest, most reverent tones as the ultimate taboo.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

How many times have we heard someone toss off the phrase "like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" as a way of describing a task that's foolish and pointless and loses sight of the larger issues. That phrase only became common currency in the mid-1970s, which suggests that it took a good sixty years for people to start viewing the event as an historical abstraction rather than an event that affected actual people. Probably a good rule of thumb when deciding whether or not to make jokes about such events.

World War II seems to be the odd exception -- it's actually *less* acceptable to make jokes about the war and wartime personalities now than it was during the war itself. With silly newsreels of Hitler dancing the Lambeth Walk, songs like "Der Fuehrer's Face," movies like "The Devil With Hitler," and right down thru the sixties with things like "Hogan's Heroes" and "The Producers", you had the generation that actually experienced the war making fun of it. But since the 1980s it's become less and less socially acceptable to mock Nazis and more and more likely that you'll be given The Look if you even attempt it. I suspect that by the time the last WW2 vet passes on, the war wlll be mentioned only in the grimmest, most reverent tones as the ultimate taboo.

Wearing a T-shirt bearing the image of Hitler would today be like waving a red flag in front of a bull while one with Vlad Tepes on it, for example, would actually garner some admiring comments even though Vlad the Impaler was more or less the Hitler of his day in terms of being the very image of evil. Go figure!

At this time I'd like to point out that I wouldn't wear either.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's funny how some disastrous events will generate jokes almost immediately -- stockbroker-suicide jokes were being told on Broadway within days of the Crash of '29, and some of these were recycled in 1987. I remember hearing the first Challenger astronaut joke (the one involving a Volkswagen, you've all heard it even if you don't want to admit you have) on the very afternoon of the explosion. And yet, Titanic jokes never really caught on until the Cameron movie came out -- I only personally know of one that actually dates to the period, and it's more an ethnic joke than it is a joke about the actual disaster. (The punchline is "Iceberg, Ginsberg, Goldberg, you think they're gonna know the difference?" and I'll let you figure out the rest from there.)

One could argue that current Titanic jokes are being made about the movie rather than about the real event, but it does seem to be that certain events are simply not appropriate subjects for humor when they're still in living memory. 9/11 is probably the only one of those to hold that status for this generation.

 

[KayEn78]

I've been reading up about the Titanic as a small way to remember what happened. It's hard to describe that feeling you get while watching the documentaries, (that animation was cool, but really unsettling) or reading about it, the questions that run through your head, like what would you have done if you were a passenger, how you would have felt. I think it's such a tragic moment, but so much was learned from what happened. It's a shame we had to figure it out the hard way, but it's a good thing that we did. But reading about how people risked their lives to save others and stuck to duties instead of saving themselves, rings another bell of sadness. I think it would a good deal more difficult to find someone like Major Archibald Butt, or even some accounts of John Jacob Astor, who refused to get in a lifeboat until all of the women and children were safe, in today's world. I may be cynical, but the integrity of these men, not to mention the women crew members who helped gather the passengers, seems so much higher than ours. But I think the image of the Titanic and all it stood for, all that it was will never be forgotten, and as for the tweets about not knowing the Titanic was real, we need to educate these people.

I've been doing the same thing, remembering the Titanic in my own way. I've been thinking about it all week and will be thinking about it tonight for sure.

-Kristi

 

[sheeplady]

How many times have we heard someone toss off the phrase "like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" as a way of describing a task that's foolish and pointless and loses sight of the larger issues. That phrase only became common currency in the mid-1970s, which suggests that it took a good sixty years for people to start viewing the event as an historical abstraction rather than an event that affected actual people. Probably a good rule of thumb when deciding whether or not to make jokes about such events.

World War II seems to be the odd exception -- it's actually *less* acceptable to make jokes about the war and wartime personalities now than it was during the war itself. With silly newsreels of Hitler dancing the Lambeth Walk, songs like "Der Fuehrer's Face," movies like "The Devil With Hitler," and right down thru the sixties with things like "Hogan's Heroes" and "The Producers", you had the generation that actually experienced the war making fun of it. But since the 1980s it's become less and less socially acceptable to mock Nazis and more and more likely that you'll be given The Look if you even attempt it. I suspect that by the time the last WW2 vet passes on, the war wlll be mentioned only in the grimmest, most reverent tones as the ultimate taboo.

I think that the difference here that really offended me about the presentation is that it wasn't making fun of terrorists in general, but making a very specific reference to a tragic event (flying planes into buildings) in front of an audience that would have at least one person who had lost a parent. When the tragedy actually happened, we had at least 20% of our students who knew someone who died in the towers/ pentagon/ Pennsylvania; I knew a young woman who lost both her parents.

I would be willing to imagine that there is a long history of making fun of one's enemy and turning them into a joke. But most of these jokes don't actually point out the atrocities of the enemies, and instead cast the enemy as stupid, humorous, and ineffective. We don't make light of when they killed people.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

10:05 PM local time is when Titanic struck the iceberg.

12:41 AM local time is when Lightoller recorded loss of lights.

12:42 AM local time is when Lightoller stated the last of the ship slipped below the waters of the north Atlantic.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

For those of us who have Google Earth, type in the following coordinates:

41° 43′ 57″ N, 49° 56′ 49″ W

 

[dr greg]

Why is this still so big in people's imagination, there've been other maritime disasters, was it because all the rich people drowned for a change? That can't be it, there was a wreck off the coast around here in the 1800's where lots of the wealthy went to the bottom dragged down by their moneybelts while the poor people swam to shore.....

 

[Shangas]

The reason the Titanic remains famous is because of what it symbolised.

Man's progress and achievements. Man's confidence. Man's dominance and self-assured mastery of everything.

But as the say, Man marks the world with ruin. His control stops at the shore.

The Titanic was THE most modern ship of the era. Telephones, lights, electric heaters, elevators, wireless radio, comfortable accomodations for all passengers, regardless of class. Watertight bulkheads. Electric safety-doors.

The reason the Titanic is famous is because it was considered THE most technologically advanced, the fastest, most modern, biggest, most luxurious thing EVER built up to that point in history.

And in one fell swoop, it disappeared.

That's why it remains famous.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And because it was all that, it was the greatest demonstration yet of humanity's hubris -- the 20th Century's equivalent of the Tower of Babel. And it taught an entire generation that, you know, progress *doesn't* make us invulnerable after all. There's still a lesson there if we look past our fascination with the drama of the story.

 

[ButteMT61]

I've read plenty of posts n the 'net this week with apparently younger folks crying "enough already" - in so many words. Sad really. The cynical think the whole thing is in play to help James Cameron make more money off of the movie. Right. Some good posts here, which I'd expect. But it's sad so many of today's youth don't want to take this opportunity to learn, but I guess we're all like that when were young.
I love the story. I liked the movie. On of the better stories this week asked why the Titanic's passengers were so gallant in the face of death (with notable exceptions) whilst the folks going down on another large ship The Lusitania - all panicked and showed much less heroism, etc. The claim is that it was because the Titanic sunk relatively slowly compared to the Lusitania. People resolve the situation when they have the extended time to absorb and come to grips with it. To me, that's even more sad. Imagine being in a spot where you knew it was over, and just watched the clock count down. Not a story worth remembering and telling? Hardly.

 

[sheeplady]

Why is this still so big in people's imagination, there've been other maritime disasters, was it because all the rich people drowned for a change? That can't be it, there was a wreck off the coast around here in the 1800's where lots of the wealthy went to the bottom dragged down by their moneybelts while the poor people swam to shore.....

More like it was because so few of the rich people drown. A third class child stood about the same survival chance as a first class male. It speaks volumes about our society that such a difference in survival rates of first and third class children was seen, and that as a third class child, your chances of survival were only slightly better than a first class male.

 

[PADDY]

This photo of RMS Titanic sitting in Belfast Docks was given to me as a little boy in Belfast, N.Ireland (my Home Town). As I understand, it was taken by a relation of mine at Harland & Wolff shipyard. It is original and as far as I know, only this exists. We also lived in the house in East Belfast (Bloomfield) where a draughtsman at H&W once lived previously (the garage was built from marine timbers from the shipyard).
I 'loved' house with the curved polished mahogany bannister that was designed (In my boyish world) for sliding down backwards!! I can remember rummaging and playing in the garage and coming across long rolled up sheets of paper (like wallpaper to my boyish eye). When I unrolled them I saw the outlines of a big ship with four funnels. At the bottom of the sheet were the words, TITANIC. They were plans (I now know) of the ship, but my mother probably threw them in the bin (there were a number of rolls), and the word TITANIC 'then,' meant little to me.
As it is April 15 2012, 100 years after the sinking of this Great Liner in the cold depths of the Atlantic, I felt it was appropriate to publish this here - 'today.'

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Songe D'Automne

In Remembrance 1912-2012

 

[silverladybug]

I've read plenty of posts n the 'net this week with apparently younger folks crying "enough already" - in so many words. Sad really. The cynical think the whole thing is in play to help James Cameron make more money off of the movie. Right. Some good posts here, which I'd expect. But it's sad so many of today's youth don't want to take this opportunity to learn, but I guess we're all like that when were young.
I love the story. I liked the movie. On of the better stories this week asked why the Titanic's passengers were so gallant in the face of death (with notable exceptions) whilst the folks going down on another large ship The Lusitania - all panicked and showed much less heroism, etc. The claim is that it was because the Titanic sunk relatively slowly compared to the Lusitania. People resolve the situation when they have the extended time to absorb and come to grips with it. To me, that's even more sad. Imagine being in a spot where you knew it was over, and just watched the clock count down. Not a story worth remembering and telling? Hardly.

What bothers me is the ignorance of today's youth. I can see it with many people I know. Unless it runs on batteries and can somehow distract them for hours, they don't care about it. Of course not everyone is like this, but even among my history major/minor friends, it isn't a big deal because it's not pressing us in the face and didn't impact us personally the way say, 9/11 did. It's also because everyone loves to hate the James Cameron movie. Personally I've been interested in the Titanic since I was in third grade or so. I did a small project on it and after that, I was so awed by what had happened and inspired by, as you mention, the heroism of the passengers. My children will, whether they're born ten years from now or later will know of the Titanic and hopefully I can instill the reverence of these people as well as other historical figures that have impacted our world.

 

[KayEn78]

I was twelve when I realized that yes, there were other times and eras out there besides my own. That was the jump-start of my love for history. Unfortunately, most don't give a care about it and are ignorant to anything that doesn't specifically relate to them. To those that actually care, are so far and few between. Yes, while the 1997 movie got me into the Titanic, it wasn't the fictional love story that did it, it was history surrounding the real ship and her passengers. It's too bad people, not just the young, can't realize that there are indeed many eras to learn and hear about other than their own self-centered one.

-Kristi

 

[KayEn78]

10:05 PM local time is when Titanic struck the iceberg.

12:41 AM local time is when Lightoller recorded loss of lights.

12:42 AM local time is when Lightoller stated the last of the ship slipped below the waters of the north Atlantic.

I was wondering last night about what time the Titanic would've gone down and someone lived in the midwest (IL). Would it have been 11:42 a.m.?

-Kristi

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I was wondering last night about what time the Titanic would've gone down and someone lived in the midwest (IL). Would it have been 11:42 a.m.?

-Kristi

It all started at 6:05 PM CDT.

 

[KayEn78]

Wow, 6:05! Then, that's definitely April 14th. Thanks!

-Kristi