This sort of thing makes me furious...

[Zemke Fan]

Vee haf our ways to make you talk...

Thank you - that does seem to be the obvious question. Pompidou? Why are you here, anyway?

Put your head in this colander.

Now, place your fingers in the toasting slots.

Here, let me show you where the switch is.

Okay, now tell us...

 

[John in Covina]

A picture? I can do better than that, how about a video?
[video]http://s905.photobucket.com/albums/ac251/Argee53/?action=view&current=FinishedToaster.mp4[/video]

There is a reason why the Folk Art portion of the Antiques Roadshow makes me cringe. (It is almost as creepy as the antique dolls, creeeepieeeee!)

 

[FRASER_NASH]

As was hinted at earlier in the thread, there are 100's of 1000's of these items knocking around and they aren't of any significant historical value in themselves. If folk like this strap maker don't put them to use, then often they will be thrown into landfill sites and lost forever. At least this gives them a second life (and they do look very good. I've bought from this chap before and the quality is amazing).

If he was buying up lots of lovely old vintage cars and turning them into greenhouses or outside toilets, then 'maybe' that would be an issue (as they are rarer), but holsters and pretty ratty and not very collectible leather jackets...

Personally...I don't have a problem with it. And 'yes,' I love my vintage My two cents.

 

[Pompidou]

Thank you - that does seem to be the obvious question. Pompidou? Why are you here, anyway?

If you'd (and everyone that seems to want to know all the time, I suppose) like everyone to repeat the same agreeing position on every issue, my copy-paste functions work. I have no problems with people turning vintage things into art, but if that's an issue, and I should bow to them like the majority, just let me know. If not believing a 70 year old holster is above being turned into something new is wrong, such wasn't listed in the forum rules.

 

[Argee]

The colander as a lampshade was my girlfriends idea. And since it's her lamp now it's her call. I never saw the resemblance to a electric chair before. and FYI the electricity doesn't go through the toasters wires, all the lever is doing is pressing the switch.

Oh and the watch band maker wouldn't part with an intact jacket because in order for it to be economically feasible you'd have to pay him the retail price of every strap he could make out of the thing put together. And the intact jacket isn't worth anywhere near that amount. Now I'd like to point out that I personally do not support what the watchband guy is doing, but its pure invisible hand capitalism. Once enough of the originals disappear, the situation resolves itself. That's the way its always worked. The only reason golden age comics books are worth anything is because all the moms threw threw away. This pattern is repeated time after time. Its a natural part of the societal cycle and there's not much we can do about it.

 

[John in Covina]

When it comes to re-tasking old stuff we are all going to have different levels of tolerance and sensitivity.

:eusa_doh:To suppose that one is the superior position has more to do with one's own values and sensibilities. To put it simply from each of the different view points it is a a case of "if you don't agree with me you're wrong."

The key is to remember to be persuasive not strident. We are here as friends not to create mortal enemies.

 

[LizzieMaine]

See, my issue isn't with the economics of it at all. My problem is with the whole idea of a prevalent cultural ethos where such a thing would even be considered a worthwhile use of an item that could still be used for its intended purpose. In my worldview, in the culture I was raised in, a wearable, usable jacket isn't scrap leather. It's a jacket. And to chop it up for any reason while it can still be worn and used is just pure profligate wastefulness -- it's like shooting elephants for their tusks, just because "ivory is worth lots of money." Reducing the issue to its dollar value just diverts the real question, in my view.

In my way of looking at the world, "value" and "worth" should have definitions that go beyond the mere dollar sign. As you might guess, I don't buy into the unassailable sacredness of "the invisible hand of the market." Because that hand usually ends up stuck someplace it has no business being.

 

[Argee]

I see exactly what your saying and I don't disagree. Its why the toaster I picked for my project had to be unable to make toast before I bought it. I was just pointing out the logic of the jacket cutter. I completely agree with the statement that the value of an item goes beyond its monetary price. But its just a fact of life that people respond to incentives and economic incentives are the most prevalent. Doesn't mean we can't complain about it, however. I think we need a new thread about re-purposing vintage items and where the line is.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Agreed -- and you're to be commended, especially, for doing nothing irreversible. I've been using the same vintage toaster I bought for a dollar at a second-hand store for nearly 30 years, and they can be very useful items if cared for properly.

I think this is a discussion with wide ranging implications not just for "vintage people" but for society in general. I know "upcycling" is a catchword of the moment in some circles, the whole idea of turning "useless things" into trinkets or art -- but the burning issue, to me, is *who decides what "useless" is, and by what criteria do they decide it?"

To bring this back to WW2, there was plenty of "upcycling" going on -- you were expected and required to turn in your worn-out tires in order to get new ones. Or your old worn-out rubber overshoes. Or your worn-out rubber girdle. A lot of worn-out men's suits got made over into women's or children's wear. *But at the same time, to destroy a usable, servicable item for no good reason was considered unpatriotic and, in some cases, could lead to criminal prosecution.* The wartime generation understood the distinction -- I don't see much evidence that the modern generation, in general, does.

 

[Argee]

I made a new thread on the subject in the Observation Bar. Doesn't belong in WWII.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?54590-Repurposing-vintage-items-where-to-draw-the-line&p=1186523#post1186523

 

[Pompidou]

I'd say the current owner decides what useless is, and the criteria is whether or not the item is useful to the current owner. How can it be otherwise? I can't imagine a society where an owner's property rights are infringed by people who think that what they would do with said property is better than what the owner would. Is it wrong to put a perfectly usable item on display, never to be used again? The end is the same as if it were upcycled. Let's say there's a vintage WWII jacket on the market and three people want it. One person wants to wear it. One person collects WWII memorabilia and would rack it. One person makes trinkets and whatnot out of things like this WWII leather jacket. Which two should do the right thing and back down from purchasing the jacket? Wearing it will destroy it. Storing it will prevent it from being used as it was meant to be. Turning it into trinkets is both.

 

[scotrace]

If you'd (and everyone that seems to want to know all the time, I suppose) like everyone to repeat the same agreeing position on every issue, my copy-paste functions work. I have no problems with people turning vintage things into art, but if that's an issue, and I should bow to them like the majority, just let me know. If not believing a 70 year old holster is above being turned into something new is wrong, such wasn't listed in the forum rules.

My question wasn't meant to bring out your Bristling Smarty Pants side. I strikes me, simply, that the aggregate of your posts leads one to believe you're here simply to carp and criticize. Or worse, to get some kind of unfavorable reaction from the membership. From the lack of smarts exhibited by the poor in choosing what to "acquire," to the collection of a degree just for kicks and giggles, to the wastefulness of earning a dime through actual work, to the advisability to slugging it out with a playground bully, your opinions are, it seems to us, invariably calculated to cause a row. And then there are the usual bow shots about vintage in general.

See, The Fedora Lounge is, in the main, a forum for collectors of ephemera from the era of "the greatest generation," along with being the home of much discussion of their lives and times. You don't seem to dig what we're about. So... unsurprisingly, the question arises again and again among the staff: "why is Pompidou here?"

There must be some other fora out there that play host to folk more to your liking?

(With apologies to the membership for calling this out in thread)

 

[Pompidou]

Hmm. I'm not here to harp and criticize or get any particular reaction good or bad from the membership. Usually, I post my honest opinion on an issue and let the cards fall as they may. Sometimes, like in the hipster arguments, I was pleasantly surprised at the support my argument gathered over time. Sometimes I'm surprised when a comment I thought was harmless was poorly received. I like fedoras. I majored in history, so the WWII section interests me. It doesn't matter why I got my degree. I'm not sure what earning a dime through actual work refers to, but I've always held steady jobs and like to think my current entrepreneur effort has some merit - I'll be a boon to the community if it works. The playground bully suggestion came from personal experience being bullied every day in grade school. Honesty. That's all. I like the beer thread of the connoisseur forum - the writer's thread of the book forum. I dress nicely everywhere I go but I don't believe I should condemn others who don't. I only speak up when it seems like people are getting on a soapbox - that's a common factor in most of the threads where I'm disagreeing. I like movies of the golden era - well, some. Errol Flynn's Robin Hood, for example. When I say there's no problem in cutting up a holster, it doesn't mean I have no love for WWII memorabilia. I just believe a person is free to do as s/he wants with his/her property. I'm here because I like a lot of everything. I don't always agree because I don't like all of anything. I do try and stay as civil and well spoken as the rest. Usually, threads are split in half on an issue and I just take a side.

 

[Monsoon]

I've always thought that you made the best use out of what you had.

If the company is cutting up good holsters that can be used as holsters, that's messed up. If they are on the "trashed" side of the scale, I think it's a cool deal. They're just recycling things.

Uniform items were made in the millions during WW2. Things that were common as dirt are now priceless. Legend has it that the USAF buried hundreds of A2 jackets in the desert. No idea if this is true or not, but they'd be priceless to a collector.

When I was in Saudi during the First Gulf War, you can only imagine how much gear we burned. We burned BDUs, DCUs, field gear. Stuff that now is available to anyone for a few bucks. 50 years from now, some collector or reenactor will be having a freakin' vapor lock reading this. "What? How could they have just burned that beautiful ALICE Pack! Savages!!"

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

I'm of the opinion that after stuff has survived a certain amount of time it becomes of value to posterity. So what if somebody burned a bunch of junk 20 years ago? I don't really get the point.

 

[John in Covina]

One of the things that is not commonly thought about is whether for governments or commercial enterprises: it costs money just to store stuff. The usual bills for commercial are the lease, the payroll. utilities and various types of insurance along with other expenses. The reality of it is that every month the bills come in, every month an item sits on a shelf or in a crate those expenses continue to be racked up and it holds true for surplus items or flat screen TV's.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Way I see it... there are a finite amount of holsters, belts, jackets, etc (cows too for that matter), use new leather and age it like Eastman/Hollywood.

 

[Pompidou]

Way I see it... there are a finite amount of holsters, belts, jackets, etc (cows too for that matter), use new leather and age it like Eastman/Hollywood.

That's always an option, except that I imagine in a lot of cases, the marketing is taking full advantage of the novelty of being from a WWII holster or jacket - of being from something else that's quirky in itself. It'd be really hard to stand out in the watchband market any other way. These boutique items need that sort of catch to get any attention at all. Otherwise, people will get discount Walmart quality generic leather bands from bulkrate wholesalers and ignore the little guy that can't compete in pricing. Without the history, what you'd have here is nothing.

 

[Zemke Fan]

We have a thread on this general topic in the OB:

Re-purposing Vintage Items

Therefore, this thread is closed.