This might be off-topic - Horse slaughter

[bobjones]

I saw a newspaper ad in today's NY Times about a law regarding banning the shipment of US horses to Mexico or Canada for slaughter.

I know that the 50s-era laws banning the slaughter of horses in the US severly damaged the horsehide clothing/leather jacket business, and last year some additional legislation passed that closed the last US-based slaughterhouse.

This has clearly driven up the cost of horsehide leather jackets, and destroyed thousands of American jobs.

I am sure Los Worlds and Aero Clothing have strong opinions on this issue, but what do all of my fellow loungers think?

 

[Pat_H]

Well, I usually don't read the threads down here, as I hang around in the hat section, but as I'm checking on the Trench Coat thread, I'll add my two cents.

The ban on horse slaughter is shortsighted and a very bad thing for horses. The population of horses in the US is quite high, and the overwhelming majority of them are recreational. They all grow old, of course. And they all die. The movement to ban all slaughter in the US is based on sentiment, and nothing more, and effectively means that populations of aged horses must be kept around until they drop dead in the pasture, at which point they're not good for anything, are hard to dispose of, or which can even pose legal problems for the person who now finds a horse out there, dead, which they can't easily dispose of.

I've been around horses my whole life. I like horses, but I think I'm realistic about them. When they're past usable age, they do not age gracefully. I'd far rather that horses that are past their usable life, and whose owners no longer want to care for them, go to feed somebody or some thing, and that their bodies and hides go on to have some practical use, other than rotting in a field, or laying in a shallow pit polluting the water table.

 

[HDRnR]

Stuart mentions on his site about a horse tannery that was burned down by PETA. These morons are so freaking clueless, I'm amazed that the FBI allows them to exist, they are terrorists. I know here in Jersey it is illegal to bury a horse on your property, and believe it or not there are alot of horses in this state. People still bury them due to the costs of having someone else deal with it. Soon I doubt there will be any domestic horsehide.

 

[John Lever]

Well, I usually don't read the threads down here, as I hang around in the hat section, but as I'm checking on the Trench Coat thread, I'll add my two cents.

The ban on horse slaughter is shortsighted and a very bad thing for horses. The population of horses in the US is quite high, and the overwhelming majority of them are recreational. They all grow old, of course. And they all die. The movement to ban all slaughter in the US is based on sentiment, and nothing more, and effectively means that populations of aged horses must be kept around until they drop dead in the pasture, at which point they're not good for anything, are hard to dispose of, or which can even pose legal problems for the person who now finds a horse out there, dead, which they can't easily dispose of.

I've been around horses my whole life. I like horses, but I think I'm realistic about them. When they're past usable age, they do not age gracefully. I'd far rather that horses that are past their usable life, and whose owners no longer want to care for them, go to feed somebody or some thing, and that their bodies and hides go on to have some practical use, other than rotting in a field, or laying in a shallow pit polluting the water table.

That is a very well balanced answer. I think the companies mentioned might have to source skins from countries where animal welfare is not a major issue , and horses are mistreated. China is the first country that comes to mind.

 

[bobjones]

Well, what can we do to fight back?

While I support the decent treatment of animals, I consider PETA and its allies the scum of the earth. Anyone, anywhere, who needs to use violence to promote itself and its political goals has clearly lost the battle of ideas.

Perhaps if a lot of us called our congressmen to fight this law and overturn the prior ones that have destroyed the tannery industry here in the states, we might see a change.

Here is the website of the group behind the ad:

http://www.horse-protection.org/

 

[HoosierDaddy]

.....I misread the topic title....thought it read "Horse laughter"..and was bewildered at who would ban that(but there surely is someone!).....lol
HD

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

Talk about cultural differences.

In Italy, especially in some parts like Puglia or my hometown Parma, we normally eat (also) horse meat.
It's not that we hate horses!
Simply it's a traditional food, so of course there is horse slaughter.

There's even a horse breed in the countryside of my town- "bardigiano" horse, they say it descend from gaulish war horses used by roman cavalry- of which people used to say, in local dialect, that "is good for riding, is good for pulling carts and after dead is good to eat".

So...
Ciao!!

 

[scotrace]

Well, what can we do to fight back?

While I support the decent treatment of animals, I consider PETA and its allies the scum of the earth. Anyone, anywhere, who needs to use violence to promote itself and its political goals has clearly lost the battle of ideas.

Perhaps if a lot of us called our congressmen to fight this law and overturn the prior ones that have destroyed the tannery industry here in the states, we might see a change.

Here is the website of the group behind the ad:

http://www.horse-protection.org/

Bartender Note: We don't discuss politics here. I'll let this stand as an example of what not to post, but let's keep this on topic, and away from PETA, political action, calling congresspeople, etc.

 

[bobjones]

Bartender Note: We don't discuss politics here. I'll let this stand as an example of what not to post, but let's keep this on topic, and away from PETA, political action, calling congresspeople, etc.

The reason I posted it here is because it so directly affects so many of us who treasure (or in my case, will do so shortly) our FQHH/med-HH, etc. jackets.

If people like this are allowed to continue unchecked, they could eventually get idiotic laws passed banning horsehide from even being used.

I didnt see an "off-topic" forum so I put the thread in here since so many of the HH wearers reside in "Outerwear."

 

[Fletch]

I honestly don't see much traction on this issue. Horsemeat is of so little interest to most Americans that they don't care one way or the other about such laws, and cruelty to horses concerns them only to the point where they might give money to animal welfare organizations (tho hopefully not PeTA, which is not at all concerned with the welfare of individual animals and all about fighting societal norms).

The leather trade has no particular incentive here either. Tanners and wholesalers have long since moved on to cowhide as the utility leather of choice, leaving specialist garments as the only real market for horsehide.

In such circumstances, we may just have to pony up - sorry - if we want horse jackets.

 

[Faisalha9159]

So hold on guys, what are we actually saying here? Are people suggesting that it will become illegal/practically impossible/ or even more difficult to get hold of horsehide jackets?

 

[Fletch]

Not as such - there's not enough interest in horsehide to draw attention from the animal rightists. But what the meat and slaughter bans can do is make what is already a costly specialty leather even more costly and less worth while to produce.

 

[bobjones]

Not as such - there's not enough interest in horsehide to draw attention from the animal rightists. But what the meat and slaughter bans can do is make what is already a costly specialty leather even more costly and less worth while to produce.

Then the answer is that a FQHH jacket that costs $1,000 today to purchase in a few years could cost thousands more, because the skins could become so hard to get.

This would effectively eliminate FQHH out of the options available, and we as consumers would have to accept wearing inferior "cowhide" or goatskin as an alternative. FQHH would become an ultra exotic hide, like alligator, costing a super premium amount.

 

[Faisalha9159]

Its funny how nothing good ever lasts for long.

 

[Warbaby]

Talk about cultural differences.

In Italy, especially in some parts like Puglia or my hometown Parma, we normally eat (also) horse meat...

Horse meat is also eaten in France and probably other European countries, as well.

So...all we have to do to save the horshide industry in the U.S. is to get Americans to eat horse meat. Could happen with the right marketing. Make it fashionable. Give it a euphemistic name. We don't eat pig meat, we eat pork; we don't eat baby cow meat, we eat veal. So horse meat becomes 'equina'. Get a hotshot chef to open trendy 5-star restaurants in LA and NY. Give 'em trendy names like L' Equina' and Stallion. Write a diet book about "The European Equina Diet. Have slogans like, "When you're so hungry you could eat a horse...".

It's all in the marketing, son, all in the marketing.

 

[Peacoat]

I saw a newspaper ad in today's NY Times about a law regarding banning the shipment of US horses to Mexico or Canada for slaughter.

I know that the 50s-era laws banning the slaughter of horses in the US severly damaged the horsehide clothing/leather jacket business, and last year some additional legislation passed that closed the last US-based slaughterhouse.

This has clearly driven up the cost of horsehide leather jackets, and destroyed thousands of American jobs.

I am sure Los Worlds and Aero Clothing have strong opinions on this issue, but what do all of my fellow loungers think?

There were no "...50s-era laws banning the slaughter of horses in the US...." However, for the past number of years, only two horse slaughter houses remain in this country; one in Chicago and one in Texas. I have heard nothing of either of these being forced to close in the past year because of legislation.

One poster above noted that horses must be allowed to live until they "drop dead in the pasture." Not so. In all of the states of which I am aware, there is nothing to preclude the owner of an unwanted horse from personally putting a bullet in his horse's brain, dropping him then and there. Or the Veterinarian could be called to have the horse put down. Most rural areas have a dump truck service that will load the dead horse and take him to the county landfill.


Alternatively, the horse could be sold for $600 to the local killers who would load the horse on a cattle car and transport him to the slaughter house in Chicago or Texas. The trip would take 1 to 3 days, depending on the distance. The horse, of course, would have no food or water from the time he boarded the cattle car until the time he reached the killing floor at the slaughter house. But when the bolt from the stun gun enters the horse's forehead (the star or the blaze makes a good target), the lack of food and water is no longer problematic.

If this is to be the reward of a horse for a lifetime of service to his master, then so be it. But there certainly is no requirement that a horse be allowed to die of old age and lie "rotting in the pasture," as the poster above noted.

I prefer the gentler method of retiring to pasture an injured or aged horse who is no longer able to perform to competitive standards. When he ultimately reaches the end of his days, a call to the Veterinarian produces a humane solution.

 

[James Miller]

There were no "...50s-era laws banning the slaughter of horses in the US...." However, for the past number of years, only two horse slaughter houses remain in this country; one in Chicago and one in Texas. I have heard nothing of either of these being forced to close in the past year because of legislation.

One poster above noted that horses must be allowed to live until they "drop dead in the pasture." Not so. In all of the states of which I am aware, there is nothing to preclude the owner of an unwanted horse from personally putting a bullet in his horse's brain, dropping him then and there. Or the Veterinarian could be called to have the horse put down. Most rural areas have a dump truck service that will load the dead horse and take him to the county landfill.


Alternatively, the horse could be sold for $600 to the local killers who would load the horse on a cattle car and transport him to the slaughter house in Chicago or Texas. The trip would take 1 to 3 days, depending on the distance. The horse, of course, would have no food or water from the time he boarded the cattle car until the time he reached the killing floor at the slaughter house. But when the bolt from the stun gun enters the horse's forehead (the star or the blaze makes a good target), the lack of food and water is no longer problematic.

If this is to be the reward of a horse for a lifetime of service to his master, then so be it. But there certainly is no requirement that a horse be allowed to die of old age and lie "rotting in the pasture," as the poster above noted.

I prefer the gentler method of retiring to pasture an injured or aged horse who is no longer able to perform to competitive standards. When he ultimately reaches the end of his days, a call to the Veterinarian produces a humane solution.

I agree Peacoat. I love Horsehide clothing as much as anyone But I don't believe in torturing something just so we can look good.

 

[bobjones]

I have to go back and find the article I was referring to about legislative changes in the 50s.

Of course, no one seeks animal suffering as an acceptable trade-off for an article of clothing, but I don't think most people, including me, has any compunctions using cow products (baseball gloves, hamburgers, etc.). In my mind, I just don't differentiate between cows, horses and other farm/domesticated animals.

 

[Story]

From the 'paper of record'

Amid pressure from animal rights groups, horse slaughter virtually ended in the United States last year, as courts upheld state laws banning it in Texas and Illinois, home to the nation’s last three horse slaughterhouses.

But there have been unintended consequences, including more grueling travel for tens of thousands of horses now being sent to slaughter in Canada and Mexico, where, animal advocates say, they sometimes face more gruesome deaths.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11horse.html
See also
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=189046

Reprehensible.

(As a period tie-in, check out the plot of IN PURSUIT OF HONOR)
www.imdb.com/title/tt0113399/usercomments

 

[Feraud]

How ironic that our desire to end horse slaughter in our borders has created an even more inhuman fate for these wonderful creatures.


Saw this film a long time ago. I remember it being very good.

(As a period tie-in, check out the plot of IN PURSUIT OF HONOR)
www.imdb.com/title/tt0113399/usercomments