this is going to sound stuuuuuupid...

[SamMarlowPI]

But I need to clarify something. Someone told me awhile back that when you say someone is British you're making a general statement about them being from Britain. But English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish breaks that down so you can actually specify where they are from instead of generalizing. is that right? I figured the Lounge would be the perfect place to clear it up. Thanks all!
-SM

 

[Ada Veen]

Britain is England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Thus I am both British and English.

Irish is different unless it is Norn' Ireland. Don't know if that helps

 

[SamMarlowPI]

yes it does...and sorry, i did mean northern ireland...

 

[surely]

what about the United Kingdom?

 

[Ada Veen]

same as GB I think... wait.... the full name is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" So it seems the UK includes NI and GB doesn't. Well, you learn something every day!

 

[surely]

 

[fishmeok]

I just make it a point to ask our English engineers what part of Austrailia the're from. "Sod Off" is much funnier in real life...
Cheers
Mark

 

[SamMarlowPI]

what about Celts and Scots? same thing?
i was watching Robin Hood Prince Of Thieves last night...and Braveheart this morning

 

[Dagwood]

When in doubt, consult a Venn (or Euler) Diagram.

 

[Spatterdash]

Actually, when I was stationed in England, I noticed that the English citizen was comfortable being refered to as British, sometimes even using the word "Brit" to describe themselves.

The Scots, the Irish, The Welsh and the Manx? Ummm, no, they were Scots, Irish, Welsh and Manx, Yank.

Of course I wasn't no Yank. They learned real quick that Texans don't care for that moniker. This usually led a rowdy session of how to say 'howdy' properly which isn't 'how-dee' so much as it's 'audi', like the car.

 

[The Wolf]

If you want to go bigger there's the British Commonwealth also.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[carebear]

From my half-abled study...

It is even more involved than anyone cares to go into.

Scotland was inhabited by Picts until Celts from Ireland immigrated East.

Later, the English imported Presbyterian Scots Celts back into Northern Ireland to displace the indigenous Catholic Irish Celts who were causing such a ruckus.

From the Romans, Scotia was Ireland, and the Celts displaced/bred with the native Scots Picts, as they did the Welsh aborigines.

Thus "Irish" Celts are found in Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall (in England, amidst the natives) and the Manxmen and Northwest French.

All they can agree on is that the pipes are G-d's own music and the English are somehow to blame for all that's wrong in the world.

Those with a better historical grasp, feel free to correct me. lol

 

[Smithy]

If you want to go bigger there's the British Commonwealth also.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

That's actually pretty much stopped now The Wolf. Speaking as a Kiwi I can attest to NZ passports stating "British Subject" on the first page right into the 70s. That's gone now but we still have the blurb on behalf of Her Majesty.

Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland. The United Kingdom is those and Northern Ireland.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

From the Romans, Scotia was Ireland, and the Celts displaced/bred with the native Scots Picts, as they did the Welsh aborigines.

Mostly on track. but i think Ireland was called Hibernia by the Romans.

bk

 

[Alan Eardley]

Later, the English imported Presbyterian Scots Celts back into Northern Ireland to displace the indigenous Catholic Irish Celts who were causing such a ruckus.

The Presbyterian Scots actually 'imported' themselves, I think. Nor were they only of Western Scottish origin. The land ('Plantations') was granted by the British Crown and had been confiscated from the native land-owning families. The early settlers in Ulster and Munster were in the mid-fifteenth century and the last (under the hated Oliver Cromwell) in the mid 16th Century. The earliest 'exemplar plantations' trended to be in the south (e.g. where the British call Cork) and the later ones (some populated by supporters of the Parliamentary cause in the English Civil war) tended to be in the north. There was, of course, migration later.

The Irish usually prefer to be called Gaelic unless fitba (soccer) is concerned, in which case they are probably Celtic, which is in this case pronounced 'Seltic' but in all other cases 'Keltic'. This is not the same as Gaelic football, by the way.

Eire (Southern Island) is sometimes included in geographical area called The British Isles but is in no case a part of Britain, which was called Great Britain to distinguish it from the lesser Britain (Britanny) which is in France.

Simple, really. I hope this clears up everything.

Alan

 

[Edward]

The Baron is quite correct - Hibernia was indeed the Roman name for Ireland.

same as GB I think... wait.... the full name is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" So it seems the UK includes NI and GB doesn't.

That is correct. There is a popular misconception (especially among Unionists in Northern Ireland) that Northern Ireland is part of Britain. In fact, no part of Ireland has ever been part of Britain per se - though is is one of the British Isles, if you want to take that line. The British identity in Ireland (Northern Ireland post partition, which took effect from 1921) comes from the fact that those under the rule of the British crown became British subjects - if memory serves me correctly, this applied throughout the British Empire as was.

In modern Northern Ireland, whether one considers onesself British or Irish is primarily a matter of politics. Pre-partition, Unionists were proud of their Irish identity, however a shift occurred thereafter. Partly this can be attributed to a reaction against de Valera's symbolic stamping of an Irish identity onto the framework of government in the 26 county Free State (eventually recognised by Britain as an independent Republic from Easter Monday 1949). As a rule, the majority of Unionists in Northern Ireland today would consider themselves exclusively "British" and not Irish at all. To these people, being called "Irish" is often rather a strong insult. On the flipside, Nationalists pretty much without exception regard themselves as Irish, not British. In legal terms it makes no difference whatever whichever one subscribes to, as the British Nationality Act of 1948 guarantees Irish citizens identical rights to British citizens within the UK .

 

[Alan Eardley]

Mostly on track. but i think Ireland was called Hibernia by the Romans.

bk

Correct.

Alan

 

[LaMedicine]

What's the correct (official) name for what we commonly call the British Embassy, the British Consulate, British Ambassador etc?

 

[Alan Eardley]

What's the correct (official) name for what we commonly call the British Embassy, the British Consulate, British Ambassador etc?

La Medicine

It is lovely to see you posting here.

Whether Britain has a Consulate or an Embassy depends on the status of the office in terms of its diplomatic mission.

The highest status office is an Embassy (there is one in Tokyo) which has an Ambassador as its head. The next status is a Consulate which has a Consul-General or Consul. The lowest status is a trade office, which does not have diplomatic status.

I hope this helps.

Alan

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Unless there is an Honourary Consul, which Graham Greene would have us believe is a mockable post . . .

bk