This generation of kids...

[jamespowers]

I'm a victim of New Math. We had it from first grade thru third, when they suddenly abandoned it and began teaching us our times tables. No matter, it ruined me for life. Where can I sign up for a class action suit?

In line right behind me.
Although, my mother and I were responsible for it exploding in my school district.

 

[jamespowers]

Tom Lehrer -- New Math (1965)

[video=youtube;Vetg7vWitTU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vetg7vWitTU[/video]

That was it. STUPID!

 

[BigFitz]

Isn't every generation looked down upon in some way by the previous one? This current crop will be saying the same things about the next in a couple of decades.

 

[jamespowers]

Isn't every generation looked down upon in some way by the previous one? This current crop will be saying the same things about the next in a couple of decades.

Not in the same way and for the same reasons. The pendulum sometimes swings back but it generally keeps going down lower as it does so.

 

[BigFitz]

Being looked down upon is being looked down upon, no matter what the reason.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Its been the 1990s for the last two decades. When will the 1990s end?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Its been the 1990s for the last two decades. When will the 1990s end?

You mean we're already "in" the 1990s??? I thought it was the '60s that never went away.

 

[Gregg Axley]

I'm a victim of New Math. We had it from first grade thru third, when they suddenly abandoned it and began teaching us our times tables. No matter, it ruined me for life. Where can I sign up for a class action suit?

I don't remember new math. Apparently I've blocked it out.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

That's exactly how I was taught. Use it every day.

Tom Lehrer -- New Math (1965)

[video=youtube;Vetg7vWitTU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vetg7vWitTU[/video]

 

[Chasseur]

Isn't every generation looked down upon in some way by the previous one? This current crop will be saying the same things about the next in a couple of decades.

Shh... quiet you

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Amazing isn't it? I've yet to meet anyone in "the real world" that I'd ask to do anything in an academic environment.

I have yet to meet a college professor I'd ask to do anything in the real world.

p.s. people seem to think teaching is easy. It's pretty bloody difficult, actually. That doesn't excuse bad or lazy teaching, of course, but when a teacher (particularly one teaching children) complains about overwork, it's generally in my experience a reasonable complaint. Lots of work to do, and all of it very stressful.

 

[Edward]

Amazing isn't it? I've yet to meet anyone in "the real world" that I'd ask to do anything in an academic environment.



p.s. people seem to think teaching is easy. It's pretty bloody difficult, actually. That doesn't excuse bad or lazy teaching, of course, but when a teacher (particularly one teaching children) complains about overwork, it's generally in my experience a reasonable complaint. Lots of work to do, and all of it very stressful.

Quite. It also never ceases to amaze me that the more vehement the complaint and criticism of higher education, as a general rule the less the experience the complainant actually has of it. Similar to the amateur "doctors" who (think they) know more than qualified medical professionals when it comes to immunisations or whatever happens to be the issue. When I rule the world, anyone who has ever repeated the idiocy "those who can't, teach" shall be strung up from a lampost by their heels.

 

[Feraud]

Exactly JP. My Son just graduated with top honors last spring. Had two summers of community college behind him..plus half of each day of his HS Senior year attending more college classes. Taught and obeyed the school rules with manners and respect since kindergarten. He now attends college full time with smiles and confidence. Turned out one of the nicest guys I've ever known. Yes..proud Dad here. Seems certain detailed things were put in place to encourage that this should be the outcome. Worth every penny and more..even if I would have had to pickup and sell pop bottles to get it done.
HD

This echoes what I'd say about my own son. A hard working, respectful young adult, graduated with honors, etc. A benefit to his family and community.

It is unfortunate some folks have a negative view on teachers. Teachers hold one of the most important jobs in society and we disparage them.
I worry more about this generation of adults than kids.

 

[ButteMT61]

Quite. It also never ceases to amaze me that the more vehement the complaint and criticism of higher education, as a general rule the less the experience the complainant actually has of it. Similar to the amateur "doctors" who (think they) know more than qualified medical professionals when it comes to immunisations or whatever happens to be the issue. When I rule the world, anyone who has ever repeated the idiocy "those who can't, teach" shall be strung up from a lampost by their heels.

In turn, academicians oft times look down their noses at those with lesser letters after their names. It goes both ways in this world. I have plenty of experience with both worlds and there's no shortage of snobbery in that realm.When the Zombie Apocalypse comes, I know where I'm heading...

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'd rather see a kid become a teacher than a hedge-fund manager any day of the week -- the rewards wouldn't be as great, but they'd also be a lot less likely to wind up in prison.

 

[sheeplady]

In turn, academicians oft times look down their noses at those with lesser letters after their names. It goes both ways in this world. I have plenty of experience with both worlds and there's no shortage of snobbery in that realm.When the Zombie Apocalypse comes, I know where I'm heading...

But that is true in any field where people hold significant knowledge that others outside of the field don't hold- I've known arrogant tradesmen who look down on do-it-youselfers. And arrogant postal workers, arrogant politicians, etc.

Quite. It also never ceases to amaze me that the more vehement the complaint and criticism of higher education, as a general rule the less the experience the complainant actually has of it. Similar to the amateur "doctors" who (think they) know more than qualified medical professionals when it comes to immunisations or whatever happens to be the issue. When I rule the world, anyone who has ever repeated the idiocy "those who can't, teach" shall be strung up from a lampost by their heels.

I like your world, Edward.

It is really sad that much of the Western World looks frowns so much on education and teachers. When the developing world (who is chock full of people who not only honor and value such things, but would die to have access to our quality of education) develops more, we're going to be screwed. Royally screwed because we have a generation of people who say "why should we care about education?" My graduate class this semester (40 students) did not have one student from the U.S. or any other western country. When the companies come to the job fair, who are they going to hire? Our students. And they are not U.S. citizens. These are the people who are getting hired for 50K+ jobs and the politicians want to grant VISAs to- and it's not like U.S. students couldn't get these jobs or be in the program- they just don't want to.

We've got the federal government who has basically given up coming to recruit at our school, despite offering 100% tuition scholarships for U.S. citizens to work in security with guaranteed 6-figure salaries coming out of school. And college isn't worth anything?

I've got to say, a lot of the complaints I hear about higher education sound like complaints over split milk. If your child, yourself, or someone you know didn't get value out of a higher degree that person needs to look within. I've rarely known anyone who apply themselves in college that didn't end up with value from their degree.

 

[LizzieMaine]

We've got the federal government who has basically given up coming to recruit at our school, despite offering 100% tuition scholarships for U.S. citizens to work in security with guaranteed 6-figure salaries coming out of school. And college isn't worth anything?

I don't think anyone's said that. What I myself said was that too often, the more education a person has, the more bound they seem to be to doing things the way they were taught to do them, regardless of the circumstances. The ability to improvise, to problem-solve on the fly, doesn't seem to come naturally to them. I don't say this because I myself didn't go to college -- I say it because when I was a news editor/director, I had to supervise and train people who did.

I was in a position where I hired numerous journalism graduates over the years -- and *every single one of them* need to be sat down and told "Look, this isn't school. Things out here aren't done the way they were on your college station -- the things you write are going to be much much more heavily scrutinized now than they ever were in the classroom. And you can't do things here the way you did them when you were in school -- we have a budget here, we have sponsors, we have people looking down our neck, and you've got to learn how to work around all of those things and still get the story told if you expect to survive in this business." And only one of those kids ever survived more than a couple of months on the job -- and even she isn't working in journalism anymore. I don't know what value they got out of their studies, but they certainly didn't actually teach them what to expect once they got out into the real world.

The best, most reliable reporter I ever had working for me never set foot on a college campus in his life. He was a retired NYC cop, an old Brooklyn guy, who wrote clearly and precisely, always had his facts straight and square, and always met his deadlines. I could ask him to do something and I knew it'd be done, no questions asked, no "who do I talk to about this, can you give me some background, where do I need to go?" I gave the assignment, and the story was there, done and ready to air, when I needed it. With the journalism-degree kids I always had to do more work on the piece than if I'd just gone ahead and done it myself from the beginning. Eventually I got sick of it and just stopped hiring them. I didn't need the headaches.

 

[Edward]

In turn, academicians oft times look down their noses at those with lesser letters after their names. It goes both ways in this world. I have plenty of experience with both worlds and there's no shortage of snobbery in that realm.When the Zombie Apocalypse comes, I know where I'm heading...

I've certainly seen that too, even if, in my own experience, less often of the two.

But that is true in any field where people hold significant knowledge that others outside of the field don't hold- I've known arrogant tradesmen who look down on do-it-youselfers. And arrogant postal workers, arrogant politicians, etc.

Unfortunately, yes.... And, of course, outside every ne of those fields will be any number of people who think they know better, relevant experience be damned....

I've got to say, a lot of the complaints I hear about higher education sound like complaints over split milk. If your child, yourself, or someone you know didn't get value out of a higher degree that person needs to look within. I've rarely known anyone who apply themselves in college that didn't end up with value from their degree.

The key problem here is a culture which values education solely from the perspective of "will this get me a job which pays more" - a culture which in doing so holds education in gross contempt. The fact remains that even had my degrees not led to a specific career - and I don't know that they have necessarily led on to higher salary than might have been possible via other routes - I would still have benefited immeasurably from my education. Those who see economic advantage as being all an education has to offer are, verily, the cynics whom Wilde said know "the price of everything and the value of nothing". Sadly, this way of thinking will only increase as the cost of university education continues to rise and the many, many students to whom the financial cost is significant but who do not qualify for any form of assistance are forced to consider whether they can actually afford it.

I don't think anyone's said that.

Not directly here on this thread - it is, however, a view often expressed in wider society, which is what I meant.

What I myself said was that too often, the more education a person has, the more bound they seem to be to doing things the way they were taught to do them, regardless of the circumstances. The ability to improvise, to problem-solve on the fly, doesn't seem to come naturally to them. I don't say this because I myself didn't go to college -- I say it because when I was a news editor/director, I had to supervise and train people who did.

I was in a position where I hired numerous journalism graduates over the years -- and *every single one of them* need to be sat down and told "Look, this isn't school. Things out here aren't done the way they were on your college station -- the things you write are going to be much much more heavily scrutinized now than they ever were in the classroom. And you can't do things here the way you did them when you were in school -- we have a budget here, we have sponsors, we have people looking down our neck, and you've got to learn how to work around all of those things and still get the story told if you expect to survive in this business." And only one of those kids ever survived more than a couple of months on the job -- and even she isn't working in journalism anymore. I don't know what value they got out of their studies, but they certainly didn't actually teach them what to expect once they got out into the real world.

I'm sure it can happen. Certainly not the case where I went, nor where I now teach, of course. It is a problem with the teaching in some institutions, though just as often in my experience with students who expect to be spoonfed and/or seek only to pass exams rather than to actually learn. Naturally I tolerate neither in my classroom.

 

[1961MJS]

In turn, academicians oft times look down their noses at those with lesser letters after their names....

Hi, that's true, but I definitely don't let it bother me. I was working as a Security Guard with an Assistant Professor of History. My pay with a BS in Engineering was $3,000 more a year than his with a PhD in History at a Big Ten university. I'd rather get paid and do history as a hobby.

Just my $0.04 or possibly 300,000 cents I guess

 

[1961MJS]

Hi Lizzie

I could be wrong, but I don't think that there's more than about 20 reporters in the US anymore. With AP and Reuters etc I get the impression (from the internet) that one guy sees a fire and it's in 2000 websites with the same words. You rarely see any news with two viewpoints from actual witnesses, or from interviews of witnesses. We don't have reporters, we have commentators. I can read above a 5th grade level and don't feel the need for commentators.

It would be expensive and would probably make me mad, but I'd almost like to take the courses for a Journalism major to find out how they all learn to be so much smarter than the rest of us.

Later