This generation of kids...

[Foofoogal]

It is so odd that when I started here we could discuss religion easily.
I am not wanting to now but just wanted to point out the aspect.

Train up a child in the way he should go.
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
If a man doesn't work he shouldn't eat.
All Bible scriptures.

Not knowing why some think like they do is ignorant. Period.
Ignorance is not bliss. (not suggesting anyone is ignorant here in this thread) but when one has interaction their belief system comes into play completely. Whatever that is.

Solace and peace is what people seek from religion and spirituality.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

The bible does not say that. Proverbs 13:24 says: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."

In other words, beat your kids to keep them in line.

 

[jamespowers]

The bible does not say that. Proverbs 13:24 says: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."

In other words, beat your kids to keep them in line.

Works for me.

Actually it means that if you do not discipline a child you are doing him wrong. If you love him you will correct him as many times as it takes to get him to straighten him out.
From this line comes two phrase---of course spare the rod and spoil the child.
The other is indeed tough love. Years ago when I was a small child, my grandfather observed my father using corporal punishment. The comment he made spoke volumes---"Now don't you feel like a worm?"
It was worse than the "wait until you have children of your own" comment.:eusa_doh:

 

[Pompidou]

Fortunately, it's all but illegal to beat children with sticks these days. I'm surprised it took longer -so much longer- to condemn beating children than it did beating wives. For centuries, a man was entitled to beat his wife with a rod as well. They say that's where the rule of thumb came from. Even after spousal abuse fell out of fashion, kids were still fair game. Nowadays, Proverbs 13:24 will land your kids in foster care.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My mother didn't use a rod, she used a paint stirrer or a soup ladle as circumstances required. I survived.

Spanking is still legal in all fifty states. As far as the biblical "rod of discipline" goes, it's figurative, like talking about "the long arm of the law." That quote merely says if you love your kids you'll correct (or "chasten") them when they need it by whatever means are appropriate. I'd think anyone would agree with that.

As far as wife-beaters go, they had the right idea about how to deal with them in Baltimore in 1938.

 

[jamespowers]

My mother didn't use a rod, she used a paint stirrer or a soup ladle as circumstances required. I survived.

Spanking is still legal in all fifty states. As far as the biblical "rod of discipline" goes, it's figurative, like talking about "the long arm of the law." That quote merely says if you love your kids you'll correct (or "chasten") them when they need it by whatever means are appropriate. I'd think anyone would agree with that.

Exactly.:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[Pompidou]

It didn't become figurative until it became unseemly. Rods were fairly literal. I went on google to make sure I wasn't confusing my facts. http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin13.htm sort of says my point early on. Literal rod beating is the original interpretation and the interpretation still taken by most fundamentalist groups. Fundamentalist group interpretation is somewhat key, because, as a whole, these groups rarely let common sense and modern values get in the way of living a 2,000 year old lifestyle. Shortly after, the article goes on to say that as corporal punishment began to be abandoned, Jews and Christians began looking for alternative interpretations - an activity popular with many of the book's less PR-friendly passages. You can make it say whatever you want, but if you're not using a rod of the literal sense - made noteworthy as part of the emblem of the Roman Empire, you're not really doing it the way the Bible recommends. Not that that's bad - I mean, we don't sell slaves anymore, amongst other things.

 

[jamespowers]

It didn't become figurative until it became unseemly. Rods were fairly literal. I went on google to make sure I wasn't confusing my facts. http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin13.htm sort of says my point early on. Literal rod beating is the original interpretation and the interpretation still taken by most fundamentalist groups. Fundamentalist group interpretation is somewhat key, because, as a whole, these groups rarely let common sense and modern values get in the way of living a 2,000 year old lifestyle. Shortly after, the article goes on to say that as corporal punishment began to be abandoned, Jews and Christians began looking for alternative interpretations - an activity popular with many of the book's less PR-friendly passages. You can make it say whatever you want, but if you're not using a rod of the literal sense - made noteworthy as part of the emblem of the Roman Empire, you're not really doing it the way the Bible recommends. Not that that's bad - I mean, we don't sell slaves anymore, amongst other things.

You're kidding using that website right?! A site run by atheists comments on religion. Riiiiigggghhht. No agenda there.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the most reasonable explanation of the "rod of discipline" is that found in Jewish tradition -- it represented the staff carried by a shepherd, used to bring the sheep into line when they began to stray. The shepherd didn't beat the sheep with it, he used it to correct them, guide them and ensure they kept within the fold. Which is what the proverb itself recommends doing, and what responsible parents will do.

It's also a reference to the rod carried by Moses, which represented his authority. You might remember that when Moses angrily struck a rock with his rod in an effort to produce water while roaming in the desert, he was chastised for losing his temper and abusing his power. The lesson to be learned there is that the authority represented by the rod isn't to be used violently or rashly.

(All that Sunday School stuff is coming back to me now.)

 

[Pompidou]

Well, I didn't check to see what faiths the writers were, until now, that is. The site leadership is apparently comprised of an athiest, an agnostic, a Christian, a Wiccan and a Zen Buddhist. Pretty well rounded.

EDIT: Suffice to say, there are a spectrum of interpretations on the passage. It's one of those things nobody can be wrong on. My intent, as usual, is just to play devil's advocate. While I of course prefer the interpretations of you two, I still believe that the original intent was the more sinister that I've mentioned and referenced. But, it really doesn't matter too much how it was "originally" intended. Good parents don't care about literal or figurative.

 

[jamespowers]

Well, I didn't check to see what faiths the writers were, until now, that is. The site is apparently comprised of an athiest, an agnostic, a Christian, a Wiccan and a Zen Buddhist. Pretty well rounded.

Two atheists, a witch, a buddhist and merely one Christian is going to do a good job commenting on christianity----Riiiiigghhht. Well balanced to atheist.
I always check my sources first.

 

[LizzieMaine]

To say nothing of the fact that they're commenting on a Jewish text, and not a rabbi in sight.

 

[jamespowers]

To say nothing of the fact that they're commenting on a Jewish text, and not a rabbi in sight.

Everybody is an expert who has a website; you know.

 

[Pompidou]

Two atheists, a witch, a buddhist and merely one Christian is going to do a good job commenting on christianity----Riiiiigghhht. Well balanced to atheist.
I always check my sources first.

We're not going to get very far with that sort of dialogue. Besides, atheists and agnostics aren't the same thing. Agnostics don't know either way - don't think it's even possible to ever know. Atheists believe there's no god.

EDIT: Also, the site goes on and describes a dozen interpretations, of which both of yours are included. It's reasonably fair.

 

[jamespowers]

We're not going to get very far with that sort of dialogue. Besides, atheists and agnostics aren't the same thing. Agnostics don't know either way - don't think it's even possible to ever know. Atheists believe there's no god.

An Agnostic is just an atheist who is hedging his bets.

 

[Pompidou]

That's not how I see myself, but you'd know best.

 

[jamespowers]

That's not how I see myself, but you'd know best.

 

[Foofoogal]

Ok, back to the OT or program. My point was that religion did and still does play a huge role in parenting for many people.

Like Lizzie stated it is not illegal to spank ones children. Beat yes, spank no.

http://www.familyrightsassociation.com/info/spanking_laws.htm
It was the only source I could find and yes there is an agenda on behalf of the site.

 

[MisterGrey]

The biggest problem is remaining intentionally myopic and shoveling all the blame onto the latest hit video game. Sure, it gives congressmen a nice soundbite, provides an "answer" to the problem, and doesn't offend the voters, but it's all empty rhetoric. If there's a problem, it needs real solutions - largely, a stay at home parent, and higher incomes for the working parent. I don't particularly like that idea, because I fear it'll bring back all the sexism inherent in the days where that was a norm, but there are no easy answers.

Thank you.

I'm sure many people in this thread would find some umbrage with me if they knew me IRL, but I'd like to think that I'm closer to the type of young adult previous generations would have wanted their children to become than what most of the people of my generation have become. I've worked some kind of job consistently since I was 20 and been enrolled in college consistently since I was 19. I would have been out sooner but for my mother developing cancer near the end of my Freshman year, at which point I reduced the college hours and increased the work hours to supplement my family's income and help pay for prescription costs. I get up every morning for school and make the hour commute to class. (And I'll stop tooting my own horn).

I mention all of this because I grew up in the era of DOOM and Grand Theft Auto and all the other violent media that gravitated around it, and for a big chunk of my childhood, both of my parents worked-- hell, the summers in between 2nd and 3rd grade and 3rd and 4th grade I spent home, by myself. Today my folks would probably have social services called on them.

My parents kept me away from anything gnarly until I was 16 but then decided if I was old enough to drive and be gone from the house on my own I was old enough to watch "Pulp Fiction." I was one of the first people to snag a copy of "Vice City" for the Playstation 2 and played it with dedication every day after school. By the time I left high school I had amassed a collection of obscure 70s and 80s cult horror movies, with all the weirdness and nastiness that entails. Yet somehow I've still managed to grow up to be a civic minded citizen, working adult, faithful husband and diligent student.

 

[jamespowers]

Thank you.

I'm sure many people in this thread would find some umbrage with me if they knew me IRL, but I'd like to think that I'm closer to the type of young adult previous generations would have wanted their children to become than what most of the people of my generation have become. I've worked some kind of job consistently since I was 20 and been enrolled in college consistently since I was 19. I would have been out sooner but for my mother developing cancer near the end of my Freshman year, at which point I reduced the college hours and increased the work hours to supplement my family's income and help pay for prescription costs. I get up every morning for school and make the hour commute to class. (And I'll stop tooting my own horn).

I mention all of this because I grew up in the era of DOOM and Grand Theft Auto and all the other violent media that gravitated around it, and for a big chunk of my childhood, both of my parents worked-- hell, the summers in between 2nd and 3rd grade and 3rd and 4th grade I spent home, by myself. Today my folks would probably have social services called on them.

My parents kept me away from anything gnarly until I was 16 but then decided if I was old enough to drive and be gone from the house on my own I was old enough to watch "Pulp Fiction." I was one of the first people to snag a copy of "Vice City" for the Playstation 2 and played it with dedication every day after school. By the time I left high school I had amassed a collection of obscure 70s and 80s cult horror movies, with all the weirdness and nastiness that entails. Yet somehow I've still managed to grow up to be a civic minded citizen, working adult, faithful husband and diligent student.

I too have a hard time blaming everything on vidoe games and the media. Both are easily controllable by parents. I grew up with Buggs Bunny cartoons where they actually shot each other, beat the heck out of each other and a whole lot of other mischief. Wiley Coyote must have been massacred hundreds of time. Cowboys shot and killed each other in the movies and goodness they might have even put their hands on each other with mal intentions.
The difference that I see is that it was in a defined context of good versus evil. The difference was easy to see. Now it is sort of just floating out there and in some cases the whole line is blurred.[huh]
You are to be commended sir for being responsible and a definite productive member of society. If we had a whole generation of you in the upcoming then I wouldn't worry much about the future. There are many cases though that I have come in contact with younger people who have their heads screwed on straight. That is quite heartening. :eusa_clap