Thinking of buying my first schott, what do you guys think of it?

[newtojackets]

@Guppy makes a great point, as always, but while you might luck out with your first leather jacket, especially if it is a
hand-me-down from when things used to be better made, bad lambskin jackets is what got me into this rabbit hole. Trying on leather jackets at shopping malls, I quickly realized that this just can't be it. . .

Learning about all these details gives you an objectively better jacket, no question, but sometimes ignorance is bliss

 

[Will Zach]

Completely understood! I was perfectly content with my lambskin fashion jackets until I found this forum

Lol, so true for me too (and I suspect not only me).

 

[Aloysius]

Like high end raw denim is supposed to be rugged and high quality, but many high end denim jeans fall apart if you wash them in a washing machine, meanwhile a $15 pair will get tossed in the washer week after week and hold up.

Actually the reason people’s raw denim falls apart is precisely because of the “don’t wash” myth. Dirt degrades the fibres, which combined with the tendency to downsize jeans results in ripped fabric. If you wash it, it will hold up.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Likewise, number-sized Schotts are not all the same. The jackets that have the stiff, coated hides–those that start with a 6— (613, 618, 613S(H), 618HH, 613H, 641) run one size smaller than tagged. Some people might get away with wearing their chest measure as the size, but for many, shoulder width will prevent that. This was the case for me.

Very useful info. Thanks. FWIW the only perfecto I had for a short while was the 626 special bought at Lucky Brand close out sale of all places. Banging deal. Thick leather, very trim cut, but passed on it soon as I discovered CXL. I've seen other motorcycle (the 6 numbers) Schott jackets at my local consignment store, but they're really used so it doesn't feel as stiff so I passed. A near new or new real motorcycle jacket from Schott is still on my list. Will get there eventually.

I want to add another experience about Japanese branded jackets though. I've just been starting to get into them now. Most bought used so I don't know the production year. But their sizing isn't that small. Same as Thedi/BK/Hooch Hauler/Board Racer. Slim straight cut for most, even the motorcycle jackets. But fits me. No one is buying the 42/44 on the Japanese auction sites as it seems and I'd like to think I got some really smashing deals. Will post about them when I get them all. Some aren't as "high quality" as I expected, but prices were a lot less than what I expected, especially car coats, they don't seem to command the higher prices like the bike jackets, and they feel new to me than most eBay jackets I've bought. I do believe used Japanese jackets are very good bang for the buck, especially if it's a style that the Western brands isn't reproducing.

 

[Aloysius]

A near new or new real motorcycle jacket from Schott is still on my list. Will get there eventually.

I’ll be at their annual factory sale this weekend. Give me a heads up on anything you want me to look out for.

 

[TheDonEffect]

Actually the reason people’s raw denim falls apart is precisely because of the “don’t wash” myth. Dirt degrades the fibres, which combined with the tendency to downsize jeans results in ripped fabric. If you wash it, it will hold up.

Agreed, regarding the material of denim. However, I was more referring to the build quality, I've seen enough seams split, loose threads, etc, those high end jeans aren't meant for machine wash and dryer, they even say so when you buy them. It's like hey it's rugged work wear, but treat it like Sunday wear when you wash it. At the very least, they're not any more durable than a $40 pair of Levis for instance.

Like chain stitching, it's not superior to regular stitching, it's just a detail we geeks fixate on. We had countless threads about stitch per inch, it's not a mark of superior quality, especially if the stitch line isn't straight...

But as I said, graining is not a mark of quality, it's just a character/look/style/etc. Plenty of jackets with boring graining have served people well in extreme conditions like crashing a bike, just like a pair of Carhartts/Dickey's/etc will probably serve you better than a pair of $300 jeans at a job site.

 

[Aloysius]

Agreed, regarding the material of denim. However, I was more referring to the build quality, I've seen enough seams split, loose threads, etc, those high end jeans aren't meant for machine wash and dryer, they even say so when you buy them. It's like hey it's rugged work wear, but treat it like Sunday wear when you wash it. At the very least, they're not any more durable than a $40 pair of Levis for instance.

If someone says that, it's meant to pander to workwear fetishist idiots. You can absolutely machine wash and dry them. If you can't, then they're just shoddy despite the price. I suppose I don't know quite what you have in mind as "high end jeans" because there are some companies focused on workwear or fashion fetish than others.

You should wash your jeans. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to recruit you to a cult.

I agree that standard Levi's or Wranglers are as/more durable– well perhaps not the standard models that have spandex, but apart from those.

Like chain stitching, it's not superior to regular stitching, it's just a detail we geeks fixate on. We had countless threads about stitch per inch, it's not a mark of superior quality, especially if the stitch line isn't straight...

Agreed.

But as I said, graining is not a mark of quality, it's just a character/look/style/etc. Plenty of jackets with boring graining have served people well in extreme conditions like crashing a bike, just like a pair of Carhartts/Dickey's/etc will probably serve you better than a pair of $300 jeans at a job site.

Also agreed.

 

[TheDonEffect]

If someone says that, it's meant to pander to workwear fetishist idiots. You can absolutely machine wash and dry them. If you can't, then they're just shoddy despite the price. I suppose I don't know quite what you have in mind as "high end jeans" because there are some companies focused on workwear or fashion fetish than others.

You should wash your jeans. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to recruit you to a cult.

I agree that standard Levi's or Wranglers are as/more durable– well perhaps not the standard models that have spandex, but apart from those.



Agreed.



Also agreed.

Sounds like we're on the same page. Most high end jeans will say hand wash in cold water, air dry, at most will say gentle cold wash and air dry. In my experience, the dryer is where stuff usually gets jacked up.

Come to think of it though, to be fair, I think all jeans say that on their care tags, lol, but you get my point.

As far as washing jeans goes, I think the prevailing reason among the hobbyists isn't so much for preservation (although it is a major consideration) as it is to develop character, achieve whiskers, create an outline of your wallet/phone to make it easier for robbers, and all that, washing them frequently will create a more uniform fade whereas holding out on washing will help create the personalized character via patina.

Which brings us full circle to this thread, chrome tanned HH for instance is rigid, uncomfortable, but has alot of visible personality and character at the expense of comfort and wearability, that as you wear it the leather will break in and create a personalized fit and develop character.

But none of this describes quality or a sense of premium per se, it's more of a unique characteristic that a niche crowd prefers. Which is why I say if it fits, looks good on you, is of high objective quality, then why does graining matter. All things equal though, yes, I'd much rather take better graining. Never see an EMT arrive at a bike crash saying dang he should've been wearing something with better graining.

Don't get me wrong though, I love me a character rich leather, to the point I actually prefer a degree of panel mismatching, natural blemishes like scars and such. But I also got a ton of love for uniform leather like certain Vansons, Schotts, JLs, etc, to the point I'm actually starting to prefer it.

 

[Bfd70]

It's all subjective. I still hold Aero in higher regard overall, but they're really two different companies doing different things. There's some overlap, of course.

Aero make reproductions of classic patterns, pre-1960, at premium quality, one at a time, by craftsmen and women who do it all from start to finish.

Schott make a great jacket, in a range of styles that are more contemporary than Aero's offerings. Schott perfecto motorcycle jackets are steeped in tradition, but are not reproductions; rather they are a continuous evolution from 1928 to to the present day. Schott jackets are mass produced, and most of the production is not customizable to the extent that Aero can offer on every order. But if you want to do a custom order with Schott, I believe you can.

I think that rankings and tiers are useful to a degree when comparing and contrasting the different makers. But they're the beginning of the story, not the final word.

It can take a long time to find the perfect jacket for you, but I think the happiest people are the ones who just fell in love with the jacket they happened to have, before scouring the earth and doing exhaustive research to come up with a theory of the ideal leather jacket, and then quest endlessly looking for a maker capable of building it.

Honestly, if my first motorcycle jacket hadn't been lost/stolen at a bar a dozen years ago, I'd probably still be wearing it, loving it, and wouldn't have ever thought about it enough to find a community like this, and I'd have so much more money in my bank account. I spent ten minutes talking to the guy who made it at a bike show, and apart from seeing the style on other people and wishing I could find one just like it, I did absolutely no research, and it wasn't custom made for me, but it fit perfectly.

It was a homerun in my first at bat, and I have never been able to replicate it, even if I have come close several times, and exceeded it many times over. I paid $225 for it in 2002. The more I searched for its replacement, the more I learned, the more discriminating my taste became, and the less satisfied I was with each thing I tried. Even though I now have dozens of jackets that I absolutely love, nothing can quite equal that one I lost. It's become like a legend now. Even if I found it again, it wouldn't be able to compare to what it's become in my mind.

Post of the year.

 

[Aloysius]

As far as washing jeans goes, I think the prevailing reason among the hobbyists isn't so much for preservation (although it is a major consideration) as it is to develop character, achieve whiskers, create an outline of your wallet/phone to make it easier for robbers, and all that, washing them frequently will create a more uniform fade whereas holding out on washing will help create the personalized character via patina.

This is a myth in itself though. Indigo loss through washing is actually minimal. It’s abrasion that causes fading. (Those Indonesians and Thais with the dramatic high contrast fades? Sandpaper.)

(Hasn’t stopped guys from scraping the foulest stuff on earth off of their raws rather than let water touch them, lol.)

 

[TheDonEffect]

This is a myth in itself though. Indigo loss through washing is actually minimal. It’s abrasion that causes fading. (Those Indonesians and Thais with the dramatic high contrast fades? Sandpaper.)

(Hasn’t stopped guys from scraping the foulest stuff on earth off of their raws rather than let water touch them, lol.)

Lol. You know what, I was thinking about that, lots of people achieve the fades and patina without any sort of special routine. In any rate, like we talked about, people can really go deep into the weeds and forget that at the end of the day, these are garments.

 

[Aloysius]

Lol. You know what, I was thinking about that, lots of people achieve the fades and patina without any sort of special routine. In any rate, like we talked about, people can really go deep into the weeds and forget that at the end of the day, these are garments.

I have jeans with amazing fades and I never went through the rituals. My fave is an RRL repro of 1930s Lees.