The Wifely Duties

[LoveMyHats2]

Agreed!
Sign me up too. LOL

I attempted to get into that class every year but it was always filled up! Drats!

 

[Edward]

That was perhaps way too vague a generalization. I was referring more to certain aspects of the evolution of society. I am all for many of the technical advances, as well as, let's call it 'tolerances' of differences berween peoples. However, what I object to is in not only the way morals have degrdaded, but also the way that is celebrated by so many. Maybe that flies in the face of the tolerance I just mentioned. All I know is that there has to be a happier medium somewhere.

Oh, I agree absolutely with the concept of a happy medium. The problem I find with critics of contemporary society is that, had they their way, they would all too often simply replicate the negatives of a previous era. Sometimes this is borne out of well-meaning ignorance, other times it's some much more sinister. You know, wanting to get back to a time when life was simpler, and "women and blacks" knew their place. I don't see the latter here, typically, but I sure have seen it bubbling under in the vintage community here and there in the real world. I'll definitely take a happy medium over that any day.

I've always believed that in many ways femininity was ultimately destroyed by feminism.

I don't believe any such thing. I suppose, though, it depends how you define feminism.... I've seen some rather bizarre definitions from its critics over the years, the sort of thing that would be equivalent to suggesting that because, say, Mitt Romney is right wing, he must be a Nazi like Hitler. Polarised and blinkered extremes of any sort are never good.

The thing is, what is essentially "feminine" about cooking or sewing, anyway? All you men eat, don't you? You all wear clothes? Knowing how to maintain your pants ought to be as important as knowing how to maintain your car. And a man who can't or won't cook is a spoiled mama's boy who needs to get over himself and grow up.

Bingo!

My wife enjoys the fire roaring on a cold night. She doesn't cut the firewood.
She drives her car everywhere. She doesn't change the oil or flat tires.
When I was in high school, I took cooking and sewing classes. it was fun, and luckily, it was where most of the girls were. Double win.
I don't care about labels. Some men do things typically done by women. My daughter went through fire academy when she wasted to be a paramedic/firefighter.
Luckily, pretty much everything is open for anyone who wants it today. Just make sure that when they bring back the draft that men & women are included...after all, national security is in the interest of men and women alike...

Please God they never feel the need to bring back the draft. The greatest failing of humanity, IMO, is that all these thousands of years on we still kill each other over ephemeral nonsense like "patriotism".

It's much easier to say to a child "Oh, no Suzie, you don't want to be a nurse. Be a doctor." than it is to actually raise the prestige of a traditionally female occupation, like nursing. And I think we encourage men away from these traditionally female occupations simply by furthering the idea that there is less value in being a nurse than being a doctor.

I've seen elements of this. It isstarting to change. I remember in pre-school in semi-rural Northern Ireland one day, must have been about 1977/78.... one of the boys dressed up in the nurse's costume. We found this hilarious, the idea of a boy being a nurse. The interesting thing is that we were totally accepting of the girl dressed as a doctor. Our preschool 'teacher' had to explain to us that boys can be nurses too. Seems to me it's not as big a deal now, things have moved on a lot, but certainly it has taken a lot longer for the idea of men doing what was traditionally considered a "female" role to be accepted. I imagine it's still very hard for the men who take on the role of house-husband in those couple where that simply makes more sense. In a sensible, grown-up society that should be unremarkable, but it is still viewed as something emasculating, to be mocked. There is also a sinister side at times too. My sister in law works in retail, part time now with the two kids, and so will often have a different day off than little brother who is then o his own with the kids. Often when he took the wee fella to the park where they used to live in Belfast, the mothers there would go quiet and stare him - basically giving him the once over on the basis of "man alone with child, could be a paedophile". Nasty stereotype - and a dangerous one too.

using the nurse/doctor thought, you might be not seeing that doctors make way more than nurses, so perhaps parents are just trying to get their children into the better paying job....

That may well be a big part of it. Funily enough, in the last few years over here there have been a lot of stories about how well plumbers are doing due to the shortage of them around (one guy in the newspaper had double his wage by quitting a post-doctoral academic post to retrain as a plumber). It seems so many folks wanted their kids to go to uni and have a nice, 'clean' job in an office that a whole sector has been seriously short of recruits, leaving them very strong in the market.

I don't know why being a stay at home wife and mother is so looked down upon. It's harder work than most jobs outside the home and requires your attention 24/7. It's one of the oldest, and should be one of the most respected life-choices.

My sister wants to stay at home and raise her family and I applaud her for that. You don't see many people wanting that choice anymore. In fact, I see more guys that want their wives to work and to stay home, themselves.

I don't see any issue with which gender does the stay at home bit if it works for the couple concerned, and they want one of them to be at home. [huh]

I do think part of the problem is the media portrayal of the stay at home types, however unfairly, which suggests that they are predominantly woman like the one whose books are mentioned in the OP, who will look down on and judge others for not agreeing with their choices. However unfair on the rest of the housewives who simply, as good feminists, chose what works for them in their own situation, I do have a certain level of understanding how those who choose otherwise, or especially those who due to financial circumstances have no other choice but to work, could resent being told they'd "made the wrong choice", hence where some of the intolerance comes from.... vicious circle.

Indeed. They're more damaging to women (IMO) than any jackass men have ever been. See the way they only support "liberal" thinking women. They never came to support the likes of Sarah Palin or Condalisa Rice - this is not meant to be political, only an observation of the hypocrisy of the group. Spare yourself the visit.

Matter of perspective, I imagine. I suppose many of those organisations will be dominated, rightly or wrongly, by those women who perceive the status quo as requiring change rather than by those who see it as being right, or even having gone too far.

Well, I didn't support them either. Supporting someone simply because they're a woman is as idiotic as not supporting someone because they are. And, again, it's yet another sign we're in fact more obsessed with such things in the modern era, not less.

Agreed.

I've had other women tell me that I'm wasting my talents by staying home. I've also had women, at cocktail parties and husband's company functions, ask me what I do, then just sneer, turn around and walk away when I say that I'm a stay-at-home mom.

That is unacceptably rude. At least when someone is that pathetic it is easier, IMO, to ignore them as they are simply too immature (quite possibly insecure in their own choices) to be worth bothering with.

I find that as well. Women judge other women's choices much more harshly than men. I don't understand it.

I don't see it as all that surprising. I'd think twice about critiquing a woman in a way that might be interpreted as sexist. Goes for ethnicity, race and religion too. There are simply some criticisms, however fair they may be, that can more easily be made by someone of the same category. I have an inbuilt kneejerk reaction that makes me think twice before ever critiquing the Roman Catholic Church, for example, as I grew up in Northern Ireland, within the 'Protestant' community.

I would figure that educating women not only in general but specifically in all of those things that Home Economics does would be considered a help and not a hinderance. I think keeping them barefoot and in the kitchen would require much more ignorance than education but then I am a man.......

The problem, I think, is that home economics was so heavily pushed as "for the girls", hence its rejection, when equality would really demand it be taught to both genders.

 

[Edward]

That's another thing people don't do anymore, and it kills me. I would go crazy if I didn't have hobbies.

When I was growing up it was very normal to have a hobby, though perhaps they have become viewed as geeky since, what with the wide availability of other forms of entertainment online, on television, etc. I suppose fewer people have hobbies now as they can easily fill their time watching TV and whatever. I can't stand people who sneer at hobbies - they're as bad as those who get rid of television because they don't like it, and then feel the need to go around telling everyone else how superior and enlightened they are because they don't have a television. Unlike you. (Kinda remind me of the ex-drinkers who don't think anyone else should be allowed a drink because it took over their life). lol

Parenting is one those jobs that is sometimes looked at as being oh so easy by both people who do and don't have kids. It is arguably the most important job any one could have and yet so many people are woefully unprepared, and then often in denial regarding their abilities. Everyone should take a parenting class, if not a full course, as a requirement in high school. More people will become parents than chemists, that's for sure.

It looks to be the hardest job in the world - certainly one of the reasons I never wanted kids. I know my own tolerance limits!

As an aside I just found this image in the NSW State Archives website. Home Economics class, Parramatta 1960 (nice to see the boys there too)

Interesting that they have the boys all dressed as chefs, though - just so we know it's proper, manly cooking, not girly cookery. Reminds me of Star Trek - no, go with me on this.... It was a big, progressive thing to have a woman on the Enterprise - Uhura - on the bridge and everything. But you ever look at what exactly she did? Communications Officer..... essentially, she answered the phone, and when someone important called, she passed them onto the man, Kirk. The one time I remember her beaming down onto a planet as part of an away team, the first thing she did was pull out a tricorder or some such and begin making notes on what the men were talking about..... like a secretary. Of course, nothing much happens overnight, so these were baby steps and very progressive on what had gone before. I find it interesting to see, though, these intermediate steps along the way.

I think the role of a "Wife" is more than what is done as far as raising children.

Well, I'd like to hope so..... I'm very pro-marriage, but I've never wanted children. I have no truck with this notion that still kicks around, and I have actually had said directly to me, that "there's no point in [me] getting married if don't want children". The mind boggles!

 

[sheeplady]

Interesting that they have the boys all dressed as chefs, though - just so we know it's proper, manly cooking, not girly cookery. Reminds me of Star Trek - no, go with me on this.... It was a big, progressive thing to have a woman on the Enterprise - Uhura - on the bridge and everything. But you ever look at what exactly she did? Communications Officer..... essentially, she answered the phone, and when someone important called, she passed them onto the man, Kirk. The one time I remember her beaming down onto a planet as part of an away team, the first thing she did was pull out a tricorder or some such and begin making notes on what the men were talking about..... like a secretary. Of course, nothing much happens overnight, so these were baby steps and very progressive on what had gone before. I find it interesting to see, though, these intermediate steps along the way.

Interestingly enough, Roddenberry originally wanted to have a female as second in command. This was part of the original pilot that was proven to be too unpopular with the studios, although I can't remember if it was audience reaction or the studio, or both. He also wanted to have the women wear pants (similar uniforms as the men). Nichelle Nichols and the other female actresses wanted to wear short skirts to show off their legs. (She said this once in an interview I saw, it was very funny the way she put it lol.)

That just emphasizes your point that society is slow to change, but change happens.

 

[C-dot]

When I was growing up it was very normal to have a hobby, though perhaps they have become viewed as geeky since, what with the wide availability of other forms of entertainment online, on television, etc. I suppose fewer people have hobbies now as they can easily fill their time watching TV and whatever. I can't stand people who sneer at hobbies - they're as bad as those who get rid of television because they don't like it, and then feel the need to go around telling everyone else how superior and enlightened they are because they don't have a television. Unlike you. (Kinda remind me of the ex-drinkers who don't think anyone else should be allowed a drink because it took over their life). lol

I think you're right. But, speaking as a hobbyist, I just don't understand how TV can have the same effect. I have quite a few TV shows I enjoy watching, but they bore me after a while. It doesn't occupy my hands or, more importantly, my mind as well as knitting, cross stitch, dress making, or solving puzzles does. Additionally, watching TV isn't productive, and you don't get the gratifying feeling of having made something pleasing or useful. It saddens me that many people won't ever know that feeling.

I'm sure many Golden Era housewives had hobbies for want of sanity, aswell!

I'm very pro-marriage, but I've never wanted children. I have no truck with this notion that still kicks around, and I have actually had said directly to me, that "there's no point in [me] getting married if don't want children". The mind boggles!

I'm the same way. I don't tell people about my feelings about marriage, though, because the fact that I want to get married makes them think I'm a sad, insecure little girl, and the further fact that I don't want children makes them think I'm backward.

 

[jamespowers]

I can see a number of reasons why someone wouldn't know how to do the very basics, such as cook a good homemade meal or wash clothes correctly. And unfortunately, the vast majority of the reasons I can think of have nothing to do with coddling and are actually quite the opposite of having an over-comfortable life.

This reminded me of my great aunt. She always used to say that if you can read you can cook.

 

[jamespowers]

I don't see it as all that surprising. I'd think twice about critiquing a woman in a way that might be interpreted as sexist. Goes for ethnicity, race and religion too. There are simply some criticisms, however fair they may be, that can more easily be made by someone of the same category. I have an inbuilt kneejerk reaction that makes me think twice before ever critiquing the Roman Catholic Church, for example, as I grew up in Northern Ireland, within the 'Protestant' community.



The problem, I think, is that home economics was so heavily pushed as "for the girls", hence its rejection, when equality would really demand it be taught to both genders.

The problem with that is then nobody can comment on anything that they aren't directly involved with. In a homogeneous society it doesn't matter much but in a heterogeneous society it can be crippling.

Uh, :

 

[Edward]

Interestingly enough, Roddenberry originally wanted to have a female as second in command. This was part of the original pilot that was proven to be too unpopular with the studios, although I can't remember if it was audience reaction or the studio, or both. He also wanted to have the women wear pants (similar uniforms as the men). Nichelle Nichols and the other female actresses wanted to wear short skirts to show off their legs. (She said this once in an interview I saw, it was very funny the way she put it lol.)

That just emphasizes your point that society is slow to change, but change happens.

Interesting... I remember some changes from the pilot, but I'd forgotten that. In a similar vein, I saw Shatner a while back being interviewed about the much-vaunted first inter-racial kiss on TV. It was done under the cover of Kirk and Uhuru's bodies being under the control of alien beings who had lost their own bodies so as not to be too shocking. The way Shatner tells it, there was one take in which they kiss was seen full on, and another where you just see the backs of heads. The studio played it safe and ran with the latter. Baby steps. Nowadays, I doubt any of us would much notice a mixed-race relationship being depicted on TV. Actually, it looks odd to me when you occasionally see a show where all the couples are strictly segregated along ethnic lines.

I think you're right. But, speaking as a hobbyist, I just don't understand how TV can have the same effect. I have quite a few TV shows I enjoy watching, but they bore me after a while. It doesn't occupy my hands or, more importantly, my mind as well as knitting, cross stitch, dress making, or solving puzzles does. Additionally, watching TV isn't productive, and you don't get the gratifying feeling of having made something pleasing or useful. It saddens me that many people won't ever know that feeling.

It's the creativity, I agree. One of the reasons I bought my nephew all the cool pirate toys I want to play with over the past couple of years is that they are not tied to any one television or film franchise (at least, not by anything more than genre). Not that that's automatically bad - I loved Star Wars before they ruined it - but I do like the idea that the imagination is left to run totally free and not constrained by predetermined plotlines and whatever. I do thik the kids who spend all their time on video games - harmless in themselves - miss out a lot on the developmental benefits of imaginative play, a stick as a lightsabre, or a sword, or a bow..... Funnily enough, though it's been years, I'm sure I remember an early scene in The Shape of Things to Come where an old man expresses concern that the toys with which his grandchildren are playing are so sophisticated they will never learn how to use their imaginations fully. Plus ca change...

I'm the same way. I don't tell people about my feelings about marriage, though, because the fact that I want to get married makes them think I'm a sad, insecure little girl, and the further fact that I don't want children makes them think I'm backward.

I'm very open about not wanting kids - not that I shoehorn it in there all the time, but I find it pays to be clear about that when one hits one's thirties, as so many new women one meets by this point already have kids or are desperate to have one and are apt to look at a man more as a potential facilitator of pregnancy and male parent rather than as a partner. Marriage, though, I would avoid mentioning too soon or it can seem a bit.... well. I remember a girl at uni who used to announce to all and sundry all the time that she really wanted to be just like her parents and her brother, and marry the first guy whom she dated. And then she wondered why she kept scaring them off.....

 

[LoveMyHats2]

This reminded me of my great aunt. She always used to say that if you can read you can cook.

Yep the I can read and cook works!

Una eggola, pinche de la pepper, whizzorino ze pano, presto!

 

[LoveMyHats2]

The problem with that is then nobody can comment on anything that they aren't directly involved with. In a homogeneous society it doesn't matter much but in a heterogeneous society it can be crippling.

Uh, :

Yeah, the guys are cooking and serving the girls, and perhaps acting as waiter as well...but...they will get a tip!

 

[jamespowers]

Yeah, the guys are cooking and serving the girls, and perhaps acting as waiter as well...but...they will get a tip!

You sure? They could get stiffed on the tip you know. It happens.

 

[Yeps]

You know, this may come off as a touch arrogant, but I have yet to meet a girl who can cook better than I can. That said, I know a great number of young women who I have never had the pleasure of having a meal with, so I don't know about them. However, whenever any of my friends get together, I am the one who does the cooking.

 

[jamespowers]

You know, this may come off as a touch arrogant, but I have yet to meet a girl who can cook better than I can. That said, I know a great number of young women who I have never had the pleasure of having a meal with, so I don't know about them. However, whenever any of my friends get together, I am the one who does the cooking.

Well, we already established that men are the best chefs........
I wouldn't let on that you can cook better than your significant other or you will have just signed up to do it for life. My father always warned me about helping out too much---how you start is how you end so if you start doing everything then you had better get used to doing everything.

 

[Yeps]

Well, we already established that men are the best chefs........
I wouldn't let on that you can cook better than your significant other or you will have just signed up to do it for life. My father always warned me about helping out too much---how you start is how you end so if you start doing everything then you had better get used to doing everything.

I wouldn't mind being in charge of cooking as long she (should she ever come into my life) can take care of something else. There are lots of chores I would rather not do. Cooking, on the other hand, is fun.

 

[jamespowers]

I wouldn't mind being in charge of cooking as long she (should she ever come into my life) can take care of something else. There are lots of chores I would rather not do. Cooking, on the other hand, is fun.

Now that is getting wise.

 

[Yeps]

Now that is getting wise.

If she enjoys ironing (it happens), we are golden.

Edit: I don't mind ironing, but I really just like having ironed shirts. (Unlike my shoe shining, which I enjoy the process)

 

[LoveMyHats2]

If she enjoys ironing (it happens), we are golden.

Edit: I don't mind ironing, but I really just like having ironed shirts. (Unlike my shoe shining, which I enjoy the process)

I think many of us "fellows" can cook and do other things. I am a whiz at ironing, and other typical laundry issues.

I find myself getting into "hyper drive" when I am running the kitchen, and will make everyone leave the area until I am done. Aside from what plates things are being served on, normally everything that was used to prepare the meal is already cleaned and back where it belonged.

My Wife cooks fairly well, and there are some things I will sit back and enjoy what she cooks. We normally trade off that ordeal, with no set schedule on how it works, we just "do it"....(yeah.....weeeeeeeeee lol)!

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I need to take cooking lessons from my mother. Nobody cooks like that woman.

 

[lolly_loisides]

I need to take cooking lessons from my mother. Nobody cooks like that woman.

You should ask your Mum if she has a favourite/family cookbook. My Mum had a book that was her Mothers & it's mine now - it's a treasured possession.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

In fact, I have. She has a recipe box, which she has some that she bases her stuff off of. She says that she mostly just works the recipe until it's to her liking, so she cannot exactly write it down, as I asked her to.

You should ask your Mum if she has a favourite/family cookbook. My Mum had a book that was her Mothers & it's mine now - it's a treasured possession.