The Vintage Tailoring Thread

[herringbonekid]

ok, i think i get it. if i imagine doing this (adding a wedge across the chest) to a normal jacket:

... the front would become / \ shaped on a 'normal' person. on a prominent chested person that slack would be taken up.

 

[Vampyre Master]

waist reduction

hi there
tried a few things lately and happy with efforts, now want to reduce waist on a pair of trousers from 34" to 30" taking the opportunity to make pleats with excess.
How do I start????
VM

 

[Qirrel]

ok, i think i get it. if i imagine doing this (adding a wedge across the chest) to a normal jacket:

... the front would become / \ shaped on a 'normal' person. on a prominent chested person that slack would be taken up.

Thats right.

When the crooked cut is labeled obsolete, they mean the crooked cut as in one which is too crooked for the figure in question. (stooping or erect, etc.) The thing is that modern suiting cloths are too lightweight or in weaves which makes it impossible to be able to do the amount of ironwork which the crooked cut calls for.
I do not agree that the crooked cut is in any way obsolete; rather I look at it simply as a different way of making a jacket.
The reason why the fullness seems to behave opposite to what is logical is that the neckpoint forces itself back into its natural position. So, when you straighten the neckpoint, it will in the finished jacket force some fabric to the front of the scye. Similarly, when you crooken the neckpoint, it will force the fullness to lie along the lapel. Referring to the illustration above: on paper everything lies flat. If you pin the pattern on the buttoning point, and then push the neckpoint into the neutral position, the wedge which was opened will bulge out. This is what happens in the finished jacket too, if the fullness is not shrunk away.

 

[Eric Scheirer Stott]

Here I am coming in late to this thread...sorry if I'm repeating anything, but isn't this detail about the same as the way military jackets were constructed around WWII? The US Army called it a "Bi swing pleat"

Anyhow, that is nice work- I can sew and construct a bit but I'd never have the skill to do that- or the patience to finish it that well.

 

[Barmey]

@ herringbonekid, saw the article in Men's File. Nice work!

 

[herringbonekid]

@ herringbonekid, saw the article in Men's File. Nice work!

thanks; i haven't actually seen the magazine myself yet... i'm waiting for it to arrive in Peggs and Son, Brighton.

see this thread for more info:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...ile-Magazine&p=1479219&viewfull=1#post1479219

 

[Guttersnipe]

HBK,

You asked me to post that period reference to glued/fused canvasing here. Ask a ye shall receive:

 

[Guttersnipe]

Here something else interesting; apparently paper was used to pad the shoulders of cheap suits too:

 

[Nick D]

The glue is acting more like starch, it's not glued directly to the fabric as with modern fusibles.

 

[herringbonekid]

Guttersnipe, it sounds like they're describing a 'glue-like' substance used in the composition of the chest canvas material rather than a 'fused' canvas which is actually bonded by heat to the jacket front (i don't know if you're familiar with 'wunderweb' tape but it works like that).

what year are those from ?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, that was my reading of it, too. That the glue was used in the manufacture of the low grade canvas. No mention of fusing.

Also interested in the source. It reads like a British source, but that could just be the stuffy writing style.

 

[Guttersnipe]

This source is American. It was published in 1948. PM you address and I'll email you the PDF.

It reads to me like an early form of fused canvas.

My understanding of canvassing is that it forms the foundation which gives the coat form and body and creates tencile memory; good canvasses "beak in" over time like shoe leather, conforming to the wearer.

My understanding of how canvassing is made is as follows: to accomplish all of the above, a certain rigidity is required. In full canvas jackets, this is accomplished with sewed together layers of interfacing material; glued/fused canvassing does the same except with glue (as a labor saving/cost cutting method). As such, fusing is really a "cheat"

Given my understanding of canvassing, that is why I read the "filled with gluelike substance" as fusing. I'm not sure how to describe an interfacing "filled" with a gluelike starch (starch being a heat activated substance, typically) any other way than some form of fusing.

 

[Qirrel]

Fusing is an old idea, and many examples of using some form of glue instead of stitches to hold fabric or canvasses together can be found in 19th century tailoring. Back then it was referred to as "soaping", since the commonly used binder was a type of soap. In good garments, soaping was only used to treat the canvas in order to obtain more spring and stiffness. Poor garments, such as the cheapest produce of the early RTW industry sometimes had the canvassing and other internal parts glued together with soap, and were known to fall apart if worn in rain.
The modern idea of fusing (as in gluing a piece of fabric to the outer shell of a jacket to achieve the required stiffness and spring, saving the manufacturer the trouble of sewing the canvas together and attaching it to the coat with sewing) was as far as I know, in its infancy in the 1920s and 1930s; they were probably only the products of the experiments of individual tailors.

 

[Vampyre Master]

Yes, that was my reading of it, too. That the glue was used in the manufacture of the low grade canvas. No mention of fusing.

Also interested in the source. It reads like a British source, but that could just be the stuffy writing style.

"stuffy writing style" I say old chap, steady on!!
VM

 

[herringbonekid]

Given my understanding of canvassing, that is why I read the "filled with gluelike substance" as fusing. I'm not sure how to describe an interfacing "filled" with a gluelike starch (starch being a heat activated substance, typically) any other way than some form of fusing.

The modern idea of fusing (as in gluing a piece of fabric to the outer shell of a jacket to achieve the required stiffness and spring, saving the manufacturer the trouble of sewing the canvas together and attaching it to the coat with sewing)...

my use of the term 'fusing' is the same as Qirrels; the canvas is bonded to the outer fabric of the jacket by heat and effectively glued in place. i hadn't thought of 'fusing' as glueing used only in the chest canvas parts and certainly no vintage canvasses i've seen show evidence of it (thankfully; i shudder to think of a canvas falling apart in the rain). we have a misunderstanding due to terminology.

 

[Guttersnipe]

my use of the term 'fusing' is the same as Qirrels; the canvas is bonded to the outer fabric of the jacket by heat and effectively glued in place. i hadn't thought of 'fusing' as glueing used only in the chest canvas parts and certainly no vintage canvasses i've seen show evidence of it (thankfully; i shudder to think of a canvas falling apart in the rain). we have a misunderstanding due to terminology.

Haha, did you catch the part about the "unpleasant odor" when wet? Gross! I suspect suits so poorly made didn't survive due to their shoddy* nature and who lily owned them (read: poor folks who wore their clothes to death).

I may have run into some suits like this before, but I'm not certain since I didn't examine the interior. I purchased a lot of 40s suit several years ago -- all made from very flashy suitings, but also very cheaply constructed -- when I when I was steaming them to photograph for resale, they emitted an awful, chemically smell. At the time I assumed it was from decades old leftover dry cleaning fluid or just years of soil . . . but these suits did have a stiff cardboard quality.

*fun fact: Shoddy was the name of a contractor that sold boots to the U.S. Army during the American Civil War. They were notorious for gluing rather than sewing the stacked leather soles together. Their shoes fell apart when wet!

 

[herringbonekid]

gents, i'm looking for some vintage horn buttons in SB suit jacket size (18-20mm) for front and smaller ones for cuffs (14-16mm) with this look to them:

...that 'streaky' look and a thin rim. i realise i may be asking for the world, but if anyone has any leads, or better yet some to sell, please PM me.

thanks.

 

[Qirrel]

Augsburger knopffabrik: http://www.schneiderknopf.de/ should have something similar to what you are looking for.

For example: http://www.schneiderknopf.de/shop/a...j5&shop_param=cid=33&aid=4015_beigenatur.001&

I suggest that you send them an email with the picture above and ask if they can replicate the button for you. For that service they have a minimum order of 250 buttons, as far as I recall.

 

[herringbonekid]

thanks Q, i didn't plan on ordering 250 but i'll make some enquiries.

 

[Nick D]

You could try Duttons (they have shops in York, Ilkley, and Harrogate). Their website isn't grand, but they might be able to help.