The unsteamed hat, just like in the old movies

[jdouglasj]

I posted the photo below in the MC Gannon forum but I thought I should make a separate thread on this topic. For many years, I would watch old movies the loved the look of the old vintage hats, but I was always disappointed when I went to hat stores because to my eyes the standard teardrop bash didn't have anywhere near the same character as the hat on the right in the photo. And when I say "old movies" I mean old black and white movies made during the days when everyone wore hats. The hats that appear period movies made today, but set in the 1930's, do not have the same character that I saw in those old movies.

At first I thought getting a hat like the hat on the right was just a function of higher quality and a custom hatter. It is, but the hat on the left is as high quality as the hat on the right. I told two previous hat makers that I wanted a hat like that I'm used to seeing in just about every old movie, and they said "sure, your hat will be 100% beaver, dress weight, just like you want." But then it would always look like the hat on the left, which was not what I wanted. And then I thought, "well maybe if I wear the hat on the left more often it will break-in and eventually look like the hats in the movies. But they never did "break-in", and I spent a lot of money on hats never getting what I wanted.

Hat maker Michael Gannon shares my same stylistic preferences for vintage hats. The hat on the right is a Michael Gannon hat. Michael thins the felt on the crown to help achieve this look, but the hat on the right has not been steamed, whereas the Optimo hat on the left has been steamed, making that teardrop crease permanent. What I didn't know, maybe $2,000 ago, was that I wanted an unsteamed Michael Gannon hat.

 

[belfastboy]

I posted the photo below in the MC Gannon forum but I thought I should make a separate thread on this topic. For many years, I would watch old movies the loved the look of the old vintage hats, but I was always disappointed when I went to hat stores because to my eyes the standard teardrop bash didn't have anywhere near the same character as the hat on the right in the photo. And when I say "old movies" I mean old black and white movies made during the days when everyone wore hats. The hats that appear period movies made today, but set in the 1930's, do not have the same character that I saw in those old movies.

At first I thought getting a hat like the hat on the right was just a function of higher quality and a custom hatter. It is, but the hat on the left is as high quality as the hat on the right. I told two previous hat makers that I wanted a hat like that I'm used to seeing in just about every old movie, and they said "sure, your hat will be 100% beaver, dress weight, just like you want." But then it would always look like the hat on the left, which was not what I wanted. And then I thought, "well maybe if I wear the hat on the left more often it will break-in and eventually look like the hats in the movies. But they never did "break-in", and I spent a lot of money on hats never getting what I wanted.

Hat maker Michael Gannon shares my same stylistic preferences for vintage hats. The hat on the right is a Michael Gannon hat. Michael thins the felt on the crown to help achieve this look, but the hat on the right has not been steamed, whereas the Optimo hat on the left has been steamed, making that teardrop crease permanent. What I didn't know, maybe $2,000 ago, was that I wanted an unsteamed Michael Gannon hat.



View attachment 508377

Yes, Michael is a master at recreating the feel, the soft hand yet solid structure of vintage felt. A good felt, pounced well will have the density to hold its shape yet softness to be bashed without steam. It can be popped back to open crown and rebashed each day to suit your mood. I love the way men used to wear their hats with an insouciance that appears as though they picked up their hat, plunked it on their head and how it turned out is how they wore it for the day......until the next time they plunked it on their hat. I am pleased you finally got the hat you wanted.

 

[Yamahana]

I posted the photo below in the MC Gannon forum but I thought I should make a separate thread on this topic. For many years, I would watch old movies the loved the look of the old vintage hats, but I was always disappointed when I went to hat stores because to my eyes the standard teardrop bash didn't have anywhere near the same character as the hat on the right in the photo. And when I say "old movies" I mean old black and white movies made during the days when everyone wore hats. The hats that appear period movies made today, but set in the 1930's, do not have the same character that I saw in those old movies.

At first I thought getting a hat like the hat on the right was just a function of higher quality and a custom hatter. It is, but the hat on the left is as high quality as the hat on the right. I told two previous hat makers that I wanted a hat like that I'm used to seeing in just about every old movie, and they said "sure, your hat will be 100% beaver, dress weight, just like you want." But then it would always look like the hat on the left, which was not what I wanted. And then I thought, "well maybe if I wear the hat on the left more often it will break-in and eventually look like the hats in the movies. But they never did "break-in", and I spent a lot of money on hats never getting what I wanted.

Hat maker Michael Gannon shares my same stylistic preferences for vintage hats. The hat on the right is a Michael Gannon hat. Michael thins the felt on the crown to help achieve this look, but the hat on the right has not been steamed, whereas the Optimo hat on the left has been steamed, making that teardrop crease permanent. What I didn't know, maybe $2,000 ago, was that I wanted an unsteamed Michael Gannon hat.



View attachment 508377

I’m with you, love the way men wore their hats back in the day and the way thd hats themselves looked. Most men probably had one or 2 felts at a time and didn’t fuss over them the way most of us do. Plus having a large collection we rotate thru them. Those men probably had 1 hat, wore it daily till it wore out then got another. But the look and end result was classic.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I posted the photo below in the MC Gannon forum but I thought I should make a separate thread on this topic. For many years, I would watch old movies the loved the look of the old vintage hats, but I was always disappointed when I went to hat stores because to my eyes the standard teardrop bash didn't have anywhere near the same character as the hat on the right in the photo. And when I say "old movies" I mean old black and white movies made during the days when everyone wore hats. The hats that appear period movies made today, but set in the 1930's, do not have the same character that I saw in those old movies.

At first I thought getting a hat like the hat on the right was just a function of higher quality and a custom hatter. It is, but the hat on the left is as high quality as the hat on the right. I told two previous hat makers that I wanted a hat like that I'm used to seeing in just about every old movie, and they said "sure, your hat will be 100% beaver, dress weight, just like you want." But then it would always look like the hat on the left, which was not what I wanted. And then I thought, "well maybe if I wear the hat on the left more often it will break-in and eventually look like the hats in the movies. But they never did "break-in", and I spent a lot of money on hats never getting what I wanted.

Hat maker Michael Gannon shares my same stylistic preferences for vintage hats. The hat on the right is a Michael Gannon hat. Michael thins the felt on the crown to help achieve this look, but the hat on the right has not been steamed, whereas the Optimo hat on the left has been steamed, making that teardrop crease permanent. What I didn't know, maybe $2,000 ago, was that I wanted an unsteamed Michael Gannon hat.



View attachment 508377

I have several hats from Gannon, including some with thin and very shapable crowns. I think you are attributing characteristics of the hats to the steaming process that don’t have much if anything to do with steaming. Sure, if you steam in a very sharp crease it will make it more difficult to completely remove it in the future, but the same can happen if you make a sharp crease dry.

Gannon uses steam in making hats and all of his hats have been steamed. If you like the organic creases and the thin shapable felt that makes them possible you’re in good company. I like some semblance of symmetry, but I try to to obsess and the creases change over time with wear and handling. I’ll also pop them back to open crown and start over. I do this easily even after applications of steam. I personally don’t think steam is the enemy of the organic shape or the re-shapable crown.

 

[jlee562]

If there's a way to make a hat without steam, I for one am not aware of it. I agree, steam is not the X-factor here. The Optimo crease is probably significantly less 'permanent' than you think as well. Steam is just interacting with the stiffener in the felt, the amount of stiffener, thickness, and density of the felt are more significant factors in how the felt handles.

 

[belfastboy]

I have several hats from Gannon, including some with thin and very shapable crowns. I think you are attributing characteristics of the hats to the steaming process that don’t have much if anything to do with steaming. Sure, if you steam in a very sharp crease it will make it more difficult to completely remove it in the future, but the same can happen if you make a sharp crease dry.

Gannon uses steam in making hats and all of his hats have been steamed. If you like the organic creases and the thin shapable felt that makes them possible you’re in good company. I like some semblance of symmetry, but I try to to obsess and the creases change over time with wear and handling. I’ll also pop them back to open crown and start over. I do this easily even after applications of steam. I personally don’t think steam is the enemy of the organic shape or the re-shapable crown.

Yes, you are bang on correct. It is really a function of the felt weight, amount of stiffener in it and how the hatter works the felt in the pouncing process. I work with felts from 95grams up to 160grams and they all can be worked to give you that vintage feel and look. Obviously it is easier to replicate in a 95gram felts than the 160gr but it is all down to the hatter's ability/skill in working the felt.

 

[Mighty44]

Yes, you are bang on correct. It is really a function of the felt weight, amount of stiffener in it and how the hatter works the felt in the pouncing process. I work with felts from 95grams up to 160grams and they all can be worked to give you that vintage feel and look. Obviously it is easier to replicate in a 95gram felts than the 160gr but it is all down to the hatter's ability/skill in working the felt.

And just to add—depending on how thick the felt is and how tall the crown, you should be able to use some steam to rebash that Optimo to look a little less factory-made.

 

[belfastboy]

And just to add—depending on how thick the felt is and how tall the crown, you should be able to use some steam to rebash that Optimo to look a little less factory-made.

Yes, Optimo uses top quality felts and the bash is likely hand pressed so should come out without leaving 'shadows' in the felt.

 

[Rmccamey]

And just to add—depending on how thick the felt is and how tall the crown, you should be able to use some steam to rebash that Optimo to look a little less factory-made.

It may be an illusion, but it looks like your Gannon also has a taller crown. The more material up top, the easier it is for the average person (like me) to bash-in a rough, organic crease without the felt touching my head on the inside. As Brent @deadlyhandsome can attest, the modern limitations of crown height were not as much of an issue "back in the day".

 

[MattinMD]

I posted the photo below in the MC Gannon forum but I thought I should make a separate thread on this topic. For many years, I would watch old movies the loved the look of the old vintage hats, but I was always disappointed when I went to hat stores because to my eyes the standard teardrop bash didn't have anywhere near the same character as the hat on the right in the photo. And when I say "old movies" I mean old black and white movies made during the days when everyone wore hats. The hats that appear period movies made today, but set in the 1930's, do not have the same character that I saw in those old movies.

At first I thought getting a hat like the hat on the right was just a function of higher quality and a custom hatter. It is, but the hat on the left is as high quality as the hat on the right. I told two previous hat makers that I wanted a hat like that I'm used to seeing in just about every old movie, and they said "sure, your hat will be 100% beaver, dress weight, just like you want." But then it would always look like the hat on the left, which was not what I wanted. And then I thought, "well maybe if I wear the hat on the left more often it will break-in and eventually look like the hats in the movies. But they never did "break-in", and I spent a lot of money on hats never getting what I wanted.

Hat maker Michael Gannon shares my same stylistic preferences for vintage hats. The hat on the right is a Michael Gannon hat. Michael thins the felt on the crown to help achieve this look, but the hat on the right has not been steamed, whereas the Optimo hat on the left has been steamed, making that teardrop crease permanent. What I didn't know, maybe $2,000 ago, was that I wanted an unsteamed Michael Gannon hat.



View attachment 508377

Nice hats! What’s the name of the color for the one on the right?

 

[belfastboy]

Nice hats! What’s the name of the color for the one on the right?

Photos of felt are always deceiving and rarely show an accurate depiction of colour. My best guess would be Natural. ....at least that is how it shows on my monitor.....results may vary.

 

[MattinMD]

Photos of felt are always deceiving and rarely show an accurate depiction of colour. My best guess would be Natural. ....at least that is how it shows on my monitor.....results may vary.

Thanks for weighing in! @jdouglasj do you happen to recall the name of the color?

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for weighing in! @jdouglasj do you happen to recall the name of the color?

His post is 18 months old and I don't think he has been around in the Lounge much these days.

 

[jdouglasj]

Thanks for weighing in! @jdouglasj do you happen to recall the name of the color?

Your post popped up in my inbox, and it brought me back to the Fedora Lounge after a long time away. The hat on the right in the photo above is from Gannon and the color is Pecan. It's an older hat before Michael started using FESPA. I have a few Gannon hats, and one is western weight. The two lightweight hats I have are the Pecan above, and a FESPA in Fawn (my favorite). I like the Fawn so much I am thinking about ordering a duplicate hat in case anything happens to the first one, or to have after the color on my first hat fades over the years.

 

[MattinMD]

Your post popped up in my inbox, and it brought me back to the Fedora Lounge after a long time away. The hat on the right in the photo above is from Gannon and the color is Pecan. It's an older hat before Michael started using FESPA. I have a few Gannon hats, and one is western weight. The two lightweight hats I have are the Pecan above, and a FESPA in Fawn (my favorite). I like the Fawn so much I am thinking about ordering a duplicate hat in case anything happens to the first one, or to have after the color on my first hat fades over the years.

Thanks so much! This is very helpful. Any chance you can DM(or post) a pic of the fawn next to the pecan? I’m trying to find a nice tan color in the lightweight felt that doesn’t have too much yellow in it, you know? The pic of your pecan hat, at least in the light you photographed it in, is reading like a warm gray… just perfect. I get how things look different depending on the light tho. I’ve seen others post that the pecan can have a greenish tint to it. Do you find that to be the case? Thanks so much! FWIW, I’m currently considering Natural, Granite, whiskey, fawn, and pecan. They all look so different depending on the lighting, it’s hard to know what’s what. Thanks for your vote on the Fawn!

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks so much! This is very helpful. Any chance you can DM(or post) a pic of the fawn next to the pecan? I’m trying to find a nice tan color in the lightweight felt that doesn’t have too much yellow in it, you know? The pic of your pecan hat, at least in the light you photographed it in, is reading like a warm gray… just perfect. I get how things look different depending on the light tho. I’ve seen others post that the pecan can have a greenish tint to it. Do you find that to be the case? Thanks so much! FWIW, I’m currently considering Natural, Granite, whiskey, fawn, and pecan. They all look so different depending on the lighting, it’s hard to know what’s what. Thanks for your vote on the Fawn!

Natural is a great neutral colour that leans towards brown, Granite is neutral but leaning to brown. Whiskey is more of a true brown, Pecan has some yellow undertones and I don't see any gray tones in it. One major thing to consider is to ask which manufacturer the hatter is using. There is lots of crossover in the names given to the colours and the difference between a Pecan from one maker to the other can be big. A safe way to proceed if you are that picky would be to ask for a swatch from the maker.

 

[jdouglasj]

Thanks so much! This is very helpful. Any chance you can DM(or post) a pic of the fawn next to the pecan? I’m trying to find a nice tan color in the lightweight felt that doesn’t have too much yellow in it, you know? The pic of your pecan hat, at least in the light you photographed it in, is reading like a warm gray… just perfect. I get how things look different depending on the light tho. I’ve seen others post that the pecan can have a greenish tint to it. Do you find that to be the case? Thanks so much! FWIW, I’m currently considering Natural, Granite, whiskey, fawn, and pecan. They all look so different depending on the lighting, it’s hard to know what’s what. Thanks for your vote on the Fawn!

Yes, I would describe the Pecan as greenish. If a non-hat wearer who didn't really care were to ask me the color of my two fedoras, I would say "one is green or olive, and the other is kinda of a beige or goldish color."

Here is a post featuring my Fawn hat:

M.C. Gannon Hat Company

Ok, so what do you all think? What color should I order for a Harry Truman Open Road reproduction?

www.thefedoralounge.com

I would advise you to follow my advice in that post and order swatches from Michael. That said, this fawn color is better than I expected and I had high expectations.

I too was considering all the colors you mentioned, and my opinions changed a good bit after receiving the swatches. Before I ordered the swatches, I was 90% sure I'd go with Whiskey. It's a great color but the pecan and fawn were far more suited to me.

I also thought I'd get a natural at one point, and it's a good color, but after looking at the swatches, I opted for Sahara instead. At the time, Michael didn't have Sahara in stock and sent me a swatch of fawn to consider instead. I'm glad he did.

 

[Rmccamey]

Yes, I would describe the Pecan as greenish. If a non-hat wearer who didn't really care were to ask me the color of my two fedoras, I would say "one is green or olive, and the other is kinda of a beige or goldish color."

Here is a post featuring my Fawn hat:

http://[URL]https://www.thefedoralo...annon-hat-company.83744/page-227#post-3086845

[/URL]

I would advise you to follow my advice in that post and order swatches from Michael. That said, this fawn color is better than I expected and I had high expectations.

I too was considering all the colors you mentioned, and my opinions changed a good bit after receiving the swatches. Before I ordered the swatches, I was 90% sure I'd go with Whiskey. It's a great color but the pecan and fawn were far more suited to me.

I also thought I'd get a natural at one point, and it's a good color, but after looking at the swatches, I opted for Sahara instead. At the time, Michael didn't have Sahara in stock and sent me a swatch of fawn to consider instead. I'm glad he did.

Natural is a great neutral color. You can easily swing the color based on the ribbon and binding colors you use. The Sahara is more limited but can also move from tan to orange.

 

[Who?]

I’m not sure what made you think the old-time movie hats were unsteamed.

I think it would be pretty hard to make hats without using steam.

 

[rogueclimber]

I’m not sure what made you think the old-time movie hats were unsteamed.

I think it would be pretty hard to make hats without using steam.

I'm thinking it is confusion between a machine creased hat v. a hand creased hat not whether streamed or not