The ultimative Denim Trouser Thread?

[Blackadder]

I appreciate the responses. Still, I think detergent makes a difference!
If you're interested, check this out.
https://amekaji-jeans.com/2019/10/denim-wash.html
Still looking for answers here

Well if it is about keeping the jeans dark longer, try baby shampoo. Modern detergent usually has some sort of bleach in it and that accelerates the discoloration.
If fading contrast is what you are after then you need to put back a bit of starch so it always retain a bit of rigidness. Then you have more pronounce crease that will result in better contrast.

 

[Pandemic]

^
This.

Shampoo to wash and then spray starch on heavy wear areas (hips/crotch and behind the knees, for example)

 

[handymike]

I use Woolite Dark for everything. Never heard of using baby shampoo, I’ll give it a go.

 

[antoine p]

@Blackadder & @JustinW, thank you for the responses. Still, I think there's a misunderstanding here.
I'm not looking to keep the jeans dark longer, or looking for high contrast wear. I am looking to approximate the color tone of late 1960's 501s.
You know this, but just to be clear- every era of Levi's has a distinctive look. The worn pairs reflect the unique combination of materials and washing techniques of their production era. This is why, for example, the LVC WWII 501 denim is different from the 1955 denim, is different from the 1937 denim, Sugar Cane 1947 denim is different from 1966, etc. The pre-distressed models from LVC and other repro brands differ from each other too- these are nods to actual vintage pairs and their contemporary wear/ care methods.
By the late 1960's, optical brighteners were common in detergent. @Sonero wrote that in the 70s jeans were washed alongside white clothing in hot water to get some bleach treatment too. I'm curious about the specific, widespread laundering techniques of the late 1960s, they've got a distinct, vibrant blue that I'm attracted to. Beyond the denim, what were the ingredients of the 1960s look? And how can I best approximate that today? I only really have experience with gentle detergents- I think use of gentle detergents for casual clothing is a recent trend- but I want to learn more about how the common 60s detergent formulas compare with what's on the shelf today. (this is very specific, of course)

 

[Sonero]

I think the nation of origin is irrelevant to the rant.

Not Really. I buy a lot of clothes through the internet from overseas locations. My Japanese, British, and German clothing is stellar quality and customer service is top of the line.
My fellow Americans often have customer service issues (takes too much effort ) and they try to disguise errors with BS. Take this example ....I wait for 3 months PRE-PAY for a $100 + items and both show up with crooked pockets. How lame is that ? What if I wasn't so assertive ? They would give me BS about it being handmade or some factory flaw out of their reach...always BS excuses with Americans. Maybe other countries do it too but my fellow Americans are exceptionally sleazy when it comes to things like this. ....I don't like it. Plus they cope an attitude when you call them on it F' EM.
I canceled all my orders ($600 +) and they refunded me for the shirts. Good for them but it also took effort on my part.

 

[Sonero]

@Sonero wrote that in the 70s jeans were washed alongside white clothing in hot water to get some bleach treatment too. I'm curious about the specific, widespread laundering techniques of the late 1960s, they've got a distinct, vibrant blue that I'm attracted to. Beyond the denim, what were the ingredients of the 1960s look? And how can I best approximate that today? I only really have experience with gentle detergents- I think use of gentle detergents for casual clothing is a recent trend- but I want to learn more about how the common 60s detergent formulas compare with what's on the shelf today. (this is very specific, of course)

This is Rock n Roll specific. I grew up listening to classic rock....Led Zeppelin Hendrix Etc. It was all about faded white jeans with rips in them. Bleach seemed to cover all aspects of that look

 

[Bfd70]

Not looking for an internet debate. I just think that is anecdotal. For instance, ask people about the customer service at Wesco.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Baby shampoo is a great laundry hack for any items that fall into the delicate/handwash category, including vibrant colors, feathers, and not limited to this fabric or that fabric. Very gentle. Low suds. Comparatively inexpensive.

 

[CatsCan]

I think the detergents used today are different from those of the older days. There has been some developments. For example enzymes are added in many to enable lower washing temps and shorter cycles. Also during the production of fabrics there has been some changes, for example dying processes. All in all, a fabric made of rope dyed threads dyed with indigo with added sulfur will bleed out the sulfur over time and thus expose the blue. There are many factors. Without knowing exactly how the fabric/thread was dyed and fixated, and without knowing exactly what chemicals or "biological" ingredients like enzymes are incorporated in the detergent, no one will know the outcome of washings before.

I bet the biggest factor is how the denim was dyed in the first place.

Let me add, that I have found bleach to alter the integrity of fibres and this can speed up deterioration.

I use mild liquid washing detergent. Sometimes baby shampoo like Blackadder and Shack wrote before. I read somewhere that soap flakes were also used for washing clothes as they were cheap. Some times they added baking soda or even borax!

 

[antoine p]

I think the detergents used today are different from those of the older days. There has been some developments. For example enzymes are added in many to enable lower washing temps and shorter cycles. Also during the production of fabrics there has been some changes, for example dying processes. All in all, a fabric made of rope dyed threads dyed with indigo with added sulfur will bleed out the sulfur over time and thus expose the blue. There are many factors. Without knowing exactly how the fabric/thread was dyed and fixated, and without knowing exactly what chemicals or "biological" ingredients like enzymes are incorporated in the detergent, no one will know the outcome of washings before.

I bet the biggest factor is how the denim was dyed in the first place.

Let me add, that I have found bleach to alter the integrity of fibres and this can speed up deterioration.

I use mild liquid washing detergent. Sometimes baby shampoo like Blackadder and Shack wrote before. I read somewhere that soap flakes were also used for washing clothes as they were cheap. Some times they added baking soda or even borax!

This is helpful. After some research I decided to stick with my regular castille soap, and added some borax too. I see you added an exclamation point after mentioning borax- can you tell me what your thoughts are on it for my purposes? Too aggressive colorwise? My understanding was that it’s a gentle way to brighten the color. Did the first wash a few days ago, don’t see much of a difference, maybe the blue is a little more vibrant than before. But we’ll see what happens after months of weekly washes!

 

[CatsCan]

what your thoughts are on it for my purposes?

As I said, I strongly believe that it depends on how the denim was dyed in the first place how the outcome will be. You will have to try and see.. If sulfur was used along with indigo (even the non natural) chances are good, that the blue will come out greatly time after time. Washing will help it.
I have no experience with adding borax to a washing cycle. I used it for forge welding but this doesn't help.
I think there is nothing wrong with a formulation of soap flakes, natron, soda and borax. This is a very old school way of washing. It was done in times when many if not most of the clothes were home made and not throw away items like many are today. So people tried to have a long term use of anything if possible and mended and mended and mended before they tossed things. The trick seems to be to combine the added borax with natron (sodium bicarbonate).

Good luck!
Cats

 

[CatsCan]

My fellow Americans often have customer service issues

It is not too long ago, that German custom service was looking up to US practices, like that of L.L. Bean and others. Of course, there always will be great companies and those who don't handle things well.

 

[Sonero]

It is not too long ago, that German custom service was looking up to US practices, like that of L.L. Bean and others. Of course, there always will be great companies and those who don't handle things well.

LL Bean has been producing junk products for years now. Same with Orvis. Prices haven't changed though. There are few manufacturers I trust anymore. Especially since most of the commerce is done online now. Returns are are hassle.

 

[Bfd70]

Just received my first pair of Freenote cloth Trabuco denim. So far i’m pretty impressed. They are a nicely proportioned straight leg.

 

[handymike]

Freenote has some really nice cuts. I went to the shop, and I was impressed with the fits and fabrics. It reminded me of Rising Sun when you could go in and try out all the pants in the workshop.

 

[Pandemic]

I sized up one on my usual Gustin size these 23oz monsters and am wondering if I should have gone up two! The measurements are in spec but I can’t even do them up. I think with a little water I’ll be able to do them up, but unless there is a lot of stretch in them they will still be tight.

 

[Bfd70]

Sounds like you’re saying they are in spec but double check. I just got my first pair of Gustin and they were almost 3” off

 

[Sonero]

Gustin just isn't worth it. Try Bravestar.

 

[Pandemic]

Gustin just isn't worth it. Try Bravestar.

This was my 16th order from them, over the past 9 years. They came in right on spec - I just didn’t allow for the lack of initial stretch in 23oz denim.

Bravestar are too slim in the hem for boots.

 

[Sonero]

This was my 16th order from them, over the past 9 years. They came in right on spec - I just didn’t allow for the lack of initial stretch in 23oz denim.

Bravestar are too slim in the hem for boots.

I don't know. After seeing two shirts from two different orders arrive with crooked pockets and mixed reviews online I am not sold on Gustin. I like the idea and the quality of fabrics they use. The construction however left a lot to be desired.

Yes those heavy denim weights do add some girth to the measurements. Don't feel bad. I have a pair of 25oz Iron Hearts that don't close on the top bottom. Thats a EXPENSIVE lesson learned.