The true story of the Bridge over the River Kwai

[Lincsong]

The HISTORY CHANNEL had on a great two hour program today about the Dutch, British and Australian prisoners of war who built the railroad in Burma. Did anyone catch the whole program? I watched the last half hour at 6:30 a.m.[huh]

 

[dhermann1]

River Kwai

I think I've seen it before. There was a guy in my mother's office who was there. In the 1958 movie the big issue was whether the British officers would do manual. He said that the British officers wouldn't even salute the Japanese officers. There was a real blood hatred for the Japanese. We also met a Dutch family many years ago that had been interned by the Japanese in Indonesia. Basically, the Japanese were unspeakably vicious and barbarous to anyone they conquered.

 

[Smithy]

I don't know when it'll get down here but I'm very keen to see it as two of my great uncles were POWs working on the Burma Railroad. Amazingly enough they both survived, although with a lot of scarring.

 

[Lincsong]

I sold a car to a Dutchman who was born in a Japanese Concentration camp in Indonesia during World War II. My sister's father-in-law was also a survivor of the Bataan Death March who managed to escape and fight as a guerrilla.

I don't think there has been an honest portrayal of what really went on in Bataan and in Burma building that railroad. Those men on River Kwai were beaten, starved, tortured, suffered through malaria and other tropical diseases. They had to work barefooted and wore loin cloths made of rags. In this History Channel program one of the survivors, I don't recall his nationality, said that he wished that before he died someone would film an honest portrayal of what they had to actually endure. It really was an excellent documentary. Hopefully, next time I can catch the entire program.

 

[dhermann1]

The Dutch

The Dutch family we met on a Mediterranean cruise in 1962 had been interned by the Japanese in Indonesia. They suffered terribly. All 3 survived. After the war, the mother went from camp to camp till she found her son. She stood there looking at him on the verge of tears and he told her, "Now mama, you always said, never let a J*p see you cry." That's the kind of feeling that was created in them.

 

[cookie]

Death Railway

Funny to see this post as I was with a friend on the weekend who is Chinese Singaporean and whose father was Indonesian Chinese. He was packed off to the railway as slave labour but survived it somehow and is still alive!

 

[Stony]

A little side note on the River Kwai. In the movie "Appocolypse Now", the scene in the hut by the river when they're playing Russian roullete was actually filmed on the River Kwai.

 

[jph712]

Been there.

I've been to the site of the Bridge and to the cemetaries where the Allied dead were buried working on the railroad. Very moving that its the Thai governement is who keeps up the cemeteries, not the British, et al., and they do so in appreciation for their deaths and the Allies getting the Japanese out of Siam.

 

[Twitch]

I believe I've seen that show too. It was a good one Part of the problem of depicting historical war events in the Pacific Theater has been a reluctance to portray the Japanese Army as the animals they were, with few exceptions. It's politically incorrect while the horrors of the Nazis continually get relived often. The Navy was an entirely different thing with totally different code of ethics. Curious to say the least.[huh]

 

[Smithy]

There's no two ways about it, the Japanese were monsters in their treatment of POWs. As I mentioned, two of my great uncles had the privilege to be guests of the emperor on the Burma Railroad. One died when I was very young, the other Robert is still alive, living in Kent. When he came to lunch one day, my Mum had to be very careful not to put whole jars of chutney, or a whole pound of butter out, as he would eat everything on the table. He could not bear to leave any food on the table, because obviously during his capture, food was minimal. He also has scars all over his back as the Japanese guards rather than stamping out their cigarette butts on the groound, would stub them out on the nearest prisoner's back.

Robert's story is quite remarkable. He contracted very severe dysentry and was chucked out to die (as the Japanese did with many seriously ill prisoners whilst working the Railroad). He was lucky as also left to die with him was an Aussie, who prior to the War had been studying to be a doctor. Together incredibly they nursed and walked each other all the way back to British lines in western Burma. My other uncle on the other hand was a captive until the end of the War.

 

[dr greg]

When

A little side note on the River Kwai. In the movie "Appocolypse Now", the scene in the hut by the river when they're playing Russian roullete was actually filmed on the River Kwai.

I'm a big fan of Apocalypse Now, and don't recall that scene. It was filmed in the Phillipines, and I'm right on the facts as location scouts came to Brisbane in the 70's to see if it was possible to make the movie in the mangrove swamps of Moreton Bay, so a lot of us local hooligans thought we'd be up for some extra work. As it turned out the Australian Army wouldn't co-operate with provision of helicopters etc, so they went to PI where you can get anything done, as they say.
Perhaps you are thinking of the Deer Hunter?

 

[Mojito]

I've visited the site as well - a very moving experience. My father's optician (who I went to for one visit when I was very young) was another survivor of the Burma Railroad. A most remarkable man.

I seem to recall when we visited that there was an elderly Buddhist monk in residence at a local temple - he had been a one of the Japanese guards, and following the war had come back as a way of atonement. I'm trying to remember the story - I think he might have actually built the temple? Has anyone else come across this?

We knew many survivors of the Japanese occupation when we lived in Singapore - my Malay teacher had been in the Boy Scouts pre-war, and during those years ran errands for local resistance efforts.

 

[Stony]

Perhaps you are thinking of the Deer Hunter?

I stand corrected, it was the Deer Hunter.



Thank you!

 

[MikeBravo]

The Germans were just as cruel to their Eastern European victims as the Japanese were to theirs.

I saw one German interviewed, he said "We were terrified they would do to us what we did to them"


Bruatlisation was part of training in the Japanese armed forces. I was watching a programme recently were an ex soldier said that the Jap soldiers were beaten by their officers, when the oficers became tired, the soldiers had to beat each other.

He said that one night he went to bed without having been beaten during the day, much to his surprise. He said he had felt as though he had missed out on something!

 

[Lincsong]

It really is a testament to those men's survival what torture the human body can endure. In the documentary one of the survivors said he couldn't believe that when they were saved they were actually FREE men again.

 

[DutchIndo]

One has to remember the Warrior code for the Japanese, Bushido. It was un-
heard of for a Japanese soldier to surrender. This ultimatley defeated them. How
many times can you Banzai charge before you realize your losing good men ?
Alot of the Kamikaze pilot had very few flight hours. It was said some did not know how to land a plane ! As stated in another post my Parents were in con-
centration camps in Djarkta Indonesia and saw the brutality first hand. My
Uncle worked on the Railway and survived the war. Yes the Japanese were very
brutal. The Japanese at the time had the world record for marching endurance.
The Japanese marched 100 miles down the Malayan peninsula in 72 hours. This
tough training was shown during the Death March. I read some place that this
was not unusual for the Japanese soldier. But they were not beaten and starved
when they did this.

 

[Jovan]

Slightly off topic, I hate how so many movies and video games portray German soldiers as animals. They were not Nazis. They were people with families who wanted to get the hell out of the war too, and there hasn't been a single good portrayal of their side of the story to date in film or video games. A shame.