The School of Hard Knox

[Machine Ager]

I will have to take some pics but I found a Great Knox "Twenty" at a Vintage shop in Austin this week!

I am really happy with it as the quality of the felt looks excellent. It is Medium Grey with a 2 3/4" Ribbon, a 2 1/2" Brim, and as I bashed it 4 1/2" front tapering to 4" crown.

Best News is that it fits! Only vintage Fedora I have found that is a 7 1/2! I usually wear 7 3/8" so a small piece of foam in the back and I am good to go.

Question to the Loungers who have been therough the School of Hard Knox Already....... How can I figure out when it was made? I suspect late 40's from the Brim size BUT this is just a guess.

Only one slightly noticeable moth nibble - this color does not contrast... so not bad.... I may try ideas on repairing by sanding/fluffing when steamed but not a priority

Thanks

Machine Ager

 

[alanfgag]

Knox straw bowler

A puzzling hat, but definitely fits the hard Knox thread.

Constructed like a straw boater, but with a domed crown. Ribbon bow on the opposite side - Donna didn't think a woman's hat would have the size tag in this manner. Era unknown. Nicely made in excellent condition.

Copper foil imprint on soft leather sweat.

 

[randooch]

Alan, that is one fine bit of basket-weaving. Have you worn it out and about yet?

 

[bowlerman]

Nice! I was wondering if a lounger got that one! Really neat.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks!

Picked it up this afternoon Randall, so not yet. It fits well so I expect I will enjoy some out and about with it soon.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Pretty neat speciman, Alan! Petersham ribbon, right-side bow, and the taller crown do seem to suggest it might be a woman's hat. That style of tag doesn't match any Hat Corp. style, so I think it's probably before the 1932 merger. Is the sweatband loose? It looks quite recessed into the crown.Brad

 

[Alive'n'Amplified]

And it's from Buffalo! Did you pick it up local, Alan?

 

[randooch]

I will have to take some pics but I found a Great Knox "Twenty" at a Vintage shop in Austin this week!

I am really happy with it as the quality of the felt looks excellent. It is Medium Grey with a 2 3/4" Ribbon, a 2 1/2" Brim, and as I bashed it 4 1/2" front tapering to 4" crown.

Best News is that it fits! Only vintage Fedora I have found that is a 7 1/2! I usually wear 7 3/8" so a small piece of foam in the back and I am good to go.

Question to the Loungers who have been therough the School of Hard Knox Already....... How can I figure out when it was made? I suspect late 40's from the Brim size BUT this is just a guess.

Only one slightly noticeable moth nibble - this color does not contrast... so not bad.... I may try ideas on repairing by sanding/fluffing when steamed but not a priority

Thanks

Machine Ager

Looking forward to pictures of your find, Machine Ager.

 

[alanfgag]

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your thoughts... The ribbon and condition also lead me to suspect a woman's hat. My wife (the costume designer) felt a woman's hat would not display this type of size label, but that may be true more of hats from a milliner's shop than an offering from a manufacturer making mostly men's hats. A hunt through her reference books did not turn up anything similar.

The lighting is odd on the shot showing the interior. The sweatband is where you would expect to find it and tightly sewn to a narrow black fabric band that is sewn to the straw body. The pleated liner is quite "bowlerish." It extends down all the way to the sweatband stitching where it is sewn in place, making it difficult to look behind for any labels or union marks. I've attached a closer look at the size tag. It is the only marking I've found on the hat.

A&A, this was an ebay auction but the seller works very close to me and I met him to pick it up.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Is your wife referring to a paper label, the men's sizing, or just a label in general? The one on your Knox doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility for a woman's hat. I've been collecting some Dobbs' women's hats, and throughout almost all of the twentieth century they utilized men's sizing on their labels. Many of mine have a cloth label, though I think I have a '20s or '30s one at work that has a paper label. For me, the hardest thing has been dating women's hats with any degree approaching accuracy.

Brad

 

[alanfgag]

She was responding to the paper label with men's sizing. I'll wear it happily and run the risk of folks giggling or stopping me to tell me my hat is on backwards. 8^).

 

[Brando11]

Really nice Boater, Alan! I love that rounded crown. You have such a great collection of Knoxes-

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks Brando... I wore it out tonight for the first time.

 

[hatophile]

That is a cool hat Alan, no matter what gender it's for. I considered bidding but I'm glad you got it.

 

[Machine Ager]

I am glad to post I now have 2 Knox "Twentys"

1 Medium Gray with Black Band and 2 1/2" Brim
1 Taupe with matching band 2 7/8" Brim

I believe the Taupe one was made in 1946 and the gray 1949 from what the sellers told me.

They are in great shape and the quality is superb. Looking forward to the Fall!

Machine Ager

 

[Joshbru3]

GORGEOUS hat, Alan!! I'm so glad that you got that one. Upon a second look, its possible that its a woman's hat, but then again, I think this hat can be worn by both. I actually think it looks great as a mens hat and as a nice alternative to a flat topped standard boater. As far as the size tag, I have seen undisputed women's hats from the 30's with "mens sizing" such as 7 1/8, 7 1/4, etc. They are usually on fabric tags and usually attached to a grosgrain sweatband. If this hat is a women's hat, its by far the nicest women's hat I have ever seen. Honestly though, I think its a mens hat with a flipped bow. I think the turned around bow was a styling factor verses a gender factor. The appointments on this hat are pretty masculine and plain by comparison to 20's/30's women's hats. If it was a women's hat, it was a VERY conservative women's hat. Also, if it was a women's hat, why use a leather sweatband? MOST vintage women's hats have grosgrain sweatbands, or sometimes none at all. My theory for the use of grosgrain sweatbands on women's hats has to do with the infamous "sweatband line" in one's hair. Because many women wear their hair down when wearing a hat, a leather sweatband might leave a hat line in their hair. Typically men had and have shorter hair and the hat line isn't as much of an issue.

 

[alanfgag]

Great thoughts, Josh, thank you for sharing them. I, of course, have no problem wearing what might be a woman's hat. I'm known to select some pretty strange stuff!

 

[danofarlington]

I don't think Alan's basket hat has the woman's style to it. Especially from that era--a little too plain and un-feminine for a female clientele. Also, do women's hats have size tags like 7 1/8? Honestly the only women's hats I've seen (bought for wife) are wool and either have no size (some stores claim all women's hats have the same size) or possibly a S-M-L designation, so I've never seen regular size tags on women's hats, as men's hats have, though my information is quite limited.

 

[Joshbru3]

Here's a Knox ad from 1899 which shows several of Knox's offerings for women that year. Notice that the bow is on the "mens side." Obviously Alan's hat is from about 30 years later, but still. If women can wear hats with bows on the "mens side," than surely men can wear hats with bows on the "womens side."

 

[danofarlington]

Very interesting. So little information is shown here about women's hats, I don't have a sense of what they were buying--until you see the 30s and 40s movies with all those goofy little felt hats they used to wear.