The School Bully

[Roger]

My sentiments exactly---except it cost more for mine. :eusa_doh: That made the choice even easier.

Regards,

J

P.S. I might pay $50 if I didn't have to see certain people I went to high school with, or just certain people, though.

Well my reunion cost more than yours.

 

[Fletch]

A case for the bully

And yet, each and every time [a school shooting] happens there is a massive effort to blame video games, music (heavy metal/rap/goth whatever), the availability of guns, what have you. While some small attention may be spent on the fact that most shooters have been consistantly tormented for years, it seems to me that the shooters are themselves blamed for attracting the torment in the first place. What a sad world we live in.

It can be. But when a kid pulls a gun in school, they cross a line where society demands they be held accountable in every way. Their personal torment cannot excuse what they did, so mostly we assume it can't explain what they did, either.

Besides, we as a society are not one hundred percent against the bully mentality. We tend to respond viscerally, seeing it as a natural show of strength, and we value strength. Strength is part of the mythology of many, maybe most, cultures. When the chips are down, as the myth has it, there will be only the cowards and the tough, and we are afraid to come down on the side of the cowards.

When it comes to sport, war, or commerce, we feel deep down that everything will rely on men (and today, even a few women) who will use force readily. What is a coach, a drill instructor, a hard-charging CEO except a highly disciplined and purpose-driven bully? If the bully learns to apply his toughness to society's regimentations, he can become a warrior. Can the bullied? Things become very, very simple when we feel threatened. Too simple.

Another reason not to side with the tormented is that the tormentor keeps careful count, and you may be next. What you learn on the playground is not easily unlearned.

 

[green papaya]

once I got in high school , the bullying stopped, because I was much bigger and stronger and could defend myself, by the senior year, guys would be scared of me and look down as we passed in the hallway.

bullying was mostly in elementary school

 

[Paisley]

What is a coach, a drill instructor, a hard-charging CEO except a highly disciplined and purpose-driven bully?

I respectfully disagree with this.

There are eight partners at the very successful CPA firm where I work. None of them is a bully in any sense of the word. I've also known other successful business owners, and while they are all pretty firm, they aren't bullies, either. Leaders have to depend on followers to get anywhere; nobody can do it all himself. Why would a good follower stick around to be bullied?

A drill instructor is different. It is his job to act and speak in a certain way.

I used to study taekwondo under the U.S. Olympic taekwondo coach, Master Sang Lee. He was a gentle man, but I've never seen anyone who commanded more respect.

As others here have observed, when bullies are confronted instead of tolerated, they typically fold up like a cheap card table.

 

[Fletch]

I'm sorry if I seemed to generalize. CEOs need not be bullyish to be effective! But there are accepted styles of coaching and leadership that are based on fear and domination, and they are accepted regardless of whether they necessarily get the best results, because they feel "right" instinctively and help feed the myth.

As for the DI, he's a Marine icon adopted by the Army after research showed that most combat soldiers in WW2 never fired their weapons in anger. The old "awright you guys" top sarge might have been tough as nails, and had free reign to bully if he chose, but he wasn't schooled in the psychology of operant conditioning and he turned out a notoriously variable product. After soldiers and marines got their heads handed to them in several important Korean engagements, training demanded that the recruit cede much more territory inside his own skull.

 

[Paisley]

I don't know about Marine DIs, but when I was in the Air Force, TIs (the equivalent of drill instructors) were subject to psychological evaluations every six months. There were specific things they could and could not do. Besides, I think people expect a certain boot camp experience when they join the military and they know it is going to be over in a matter of weeks. They know it isn't personal.

That is a far cry from school bullies (and school teachers) who single out shy, small or smart kids to pick on.

As for management style, I know a variety of people at the top of their professions: accounting, stoneworks, dance. There aren't many people they'd work for, and a bullying boss wouldn't keep them around for five minutes. (People at the top of their game don't even keep clients like that around.)

 

[Ben]

The thing about bullies is they will always exist because there are always people who are going to be insecure. Some people try to avoid confrontation or trouble because they are insecure and others try to start trouble and bully others because they are insecure.

Of course people aat the top of their profession don't have to bully, they are the top of their profession and command respect because people know they are good at what they do.

But everyone needs to learn to deal with bullies because they are with us in the work world, and in daily life. There are a lot of people who will try to dominate as much as they can. It makes them feel safer.

Like Novella, I pretty much got along with everyone in high school. I was not in the popular crowd, but I was friendly and out going. That also meant I was mouthy and able to dish it out verbally as well as anyone. The other thing that I had going by the time I got there, though was that like Canadadoll, I took up martial arts after some ugly experiences when i was younger. Somehow that got out, an though I didn't think I was a dangerous street-fighting man, some people did and I was never hassled.

All of this to say, that in order to deal with the bullies, or help children deal with them, we need to build ourselves and the kids up. While I think Lincsong's Dad had the right idea, I don't know that everyone needs to take boxing lessons or sign up for the Charles Atlas course so no one kicks sand in our faces again. (Though if we ever meet in person, I would like a karate lesson, CanadaDoll.)

Whaat we need to do is to find things that we like and that challenge us to buold up our confidence. That in itself is kind of a defense, because bullies look for weak targets and avoid those that don't look easy. Also, we need to do things that are competitive occasionally. Part of the reason is so that we learn how to lose andd realize that there is something valuable in a good fight. The other part is so that we learn how to win, and how to tap into our strengths and resources. Also, so that we learn to be successful and have fun with it. That is how you learn not to be arrogant or rub it in other people's faces.

So, for people like Elaina who are worried about raising a 'nerd' as you say it, don't. Get the kid into things that he likes so that he becomes confident and socialable and he will be strong. It is the same way with all of us.

Sorry for the long post, but I do hope there is soemthing useful in it.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

That is a far cry from school bullies (and school teachers) who single out shy, small or smart kids to pick on.

Wow. Brings back a painful memory for me from first grade.
The teacher put me next to a kid that was from a poor and probably disfunctional family, although she did not really fully explain to me about her plan which was to help the kid do better in his studies. And as a 6 year old, I wouldn't have fully understood her psychology crap anyway! So the 2 of us just started chatting one day and just innocently making friends like kids do. He lived right around the corner from me. The old bat freaked out and grabbed me by the arm jerking me up in front of the whole class to make an example of me! :rage:
The old witch's reaction to me not going along with her plan, caused me a lot of damage as a kid. Made me shy and fearful.
I have long since gotten over it, but it brings up the importance of watching what we say and do, especially when dealing with little kids that depend on adults for guidance.

 

[Fletch]

Major, I often wonder whether or not a Good Cop-Bad Cop method of emotional training might help kids with similar issues. One exercise might be for an authority figure to play the old bat or harsh disciplinarian and crack down. Then bring a mediator into the scene who asks how the kid feels, how the roleplayer feels (in their role), etc., and shows some caring for each of their points of view. It could develop confidence in the face of confrontation but keep it in a safe environment.

Of course, some may say that if you want to learn assertiveness and confidence, there's no substitute for first learning to be shy and fearful and paying the price for being that way.

And I will always believe that on some level ("deep down in places you don't talk about" - Col. Nathan R. Jessup), we want bullies, we feel we need bullies, and preying on the weak feels righteous, if not quite right.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Al the world is a stage, and we are merely players.

Truer words were never spoken I think. Every person we encounter in our lives, whether friend or foe, is there to teach some lesson we may need to learn. This is why it is important to not condemn anyone. Some of the players are not even aware of what effect they may have on others.

 

[Phil]

I always took the peaceful, sfter school special approach to bullies through grade school. When I got to middle school, about a month into the school year, I got beat down by three guys in my grade. All bets were off as well as the gloves. I waited a week for wounds to heal and to devise a plan. Through the naxe week, I found each one seperately and paid them back...with interest. Fist kid, I loosened his bike tires and I'm not sure what happened, but the next day his fase was all scratched up. Second kid, I took a few cheap shots at him in gym. Third kid I just tackled and started pounding him in the face. I got 2 in school suspensions for that, but it was well worth it. I still see them today in high school. They fear me...as well as some other people. In any case, bullies just need a taste of their own medicine.

 

[beaucaillou]

It's easy to say 'Let it go,' but I think you need to decided for yourself if it would make you FEEL BETTER to hold him accountable. "Being the bigger person" etc., isn't always the best route. If you need resolution or a kind of healing, then it is your responsibility to obtain it by whatever means. If you feel that you need closure or to tell him how awfully his behavior effected you, go for it. Whatever happens, don't let it be about him, make it be about you and what you need going forward, just don't anticipate a certain reaction or an apology because you probably won't get it.

(If it were me, I'd probably put myself next to him at some point, say 'Hello', play dumb, look at his name tag obviously and say {with humor, a smile, & lightheartedness}, "Man. You were a real ____ back in the day..." And leave it at that.)

 

[Paisley]

Bernie Brillstein wrote a terrific little book called The Little Stuff Matters Most: 50 Rules from 50 Years of Trying to Make a Living. He says that you might not be able to give a bully what's coming to him. But somewhere down the line, somebody else will.

In my case, I had a coworker who seemed professionally threatened by me. Management was totally behind her--what could I do? Poison her coffee? Push her in front of a train? (Believe me, I thought about it.) I finally quit. My next job was with a competing firm. When they interviewed me, they checked my story, which my old boss verified ("Yes, N------ is hard to work with.") A few years later, my employer considered buying the very branch of the company I'd worked for--and if they did, N------, that harpie I worked with, wouldn't be offered a job! My employer did not end up buying the branch (they heard about too many problems with it), but a few people from there came to work for us. I have reason to believe that N------ had been fired.

I've had many jobs, and at the vast majority of places I've worked, bullies (and others who don't deal with people very well) only seem to get one or two steps up the ladder. My theory is that bullies tend to go further where seniority is a big deal (e.g., school, either teachers or students, the military, government work) and there is something of a captive audience or in places that people are dying to get into (look at the abuse people take from Simon Cowell just for a longshot at being a singer).

 

[Paisley]

It's easy to say 'Let it go,' but I think you need to decided for yourself if it would make you FEEL BETTER to hold him accountable.

I've dealt with quite a bit of this in my life and I can sum up in four words how to get over anything that I know of: stop thinking about it.

It also helps to keep in mind that some people will try to tear down those they are jealous or afraid of.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I've dealt with quite a bit of this in my life and I can sum up in four words how to get over anything that I know of: stop thinking about it.

It also helps to keep in mind that some people will try to tear down those they are jealous or afraid of.

Exactly! And knowing this is all the weaponry that is required to deal with them.

 

[carebear]

Exactly! And knowing this is all the weaponry that is required to deal with them.

Well, that and a tire iron.

 

[anselmo1]

I had a neighborhood bully that was four years older than me and always looked like a giant. He would always pick on younger kids as a rule in the neigborhood and we were terrified of him. He did have four older brothers that must have tormented him, so he in turn would torment others. His father was a very prominent doctor in town.

30 years later, I happened to run across this guy. He was 5' 9" tall and maybe 140 lbs of skin and bone. I stand 6'2' tall and weigh 215 lbs and walked up to him and asked him if he remembered me? He replied "I don't think so." When I told him who I was, he turned white and stated, "Wasn't fun being kids"! I looked him in the eye and said "No"! I thought the guy was going to crap in his pants.

I shook his hand, told him what I had been doing the last 30 years and said goodbye. He had a look of relief on his face as I turned around and walked away. Haven't seen him since!

 

[jamespowers]

Well, that and a tire iron.

You forgot the vice grips and the blowtourch. Do it the vintage Capone way.

 

[mysterygal]

Never had to deal with a school bully until my oldest daughter started 1st grade. THis kid was unbelievably horrible to her! It got so bad that when picking her up, she was crying saying that during recess he held her down and started punching her. This is when I realized the full 'mother hen' feeling! I wanted SO bad to pin this kid up against the wall and give him a clobbering of his own (never mind that he was just a little kid)...momma was seeing red!
anyways, the school just gave the brat a slap on the wrist so ended up taking her to another school.
this thing I noticed, the effects of a bully can really be devastating...forget the bruises, the toll it takes on the self esteem is horrible.

 

[Fletch]

Satire...I think

In Defense of Bullying in America