The Red Baron

[Badluck Brody]

Looks like Joseph fiennes from Enemy at the Gate will play Roy Brown (the reputed pilot who brought down the Red Barron)... Check it out.

http://www.redbaron-themovie.com/index_en.html

 

[cookie]

Looks like Joseph fiennes from Enemy at the Gate will play Roy Brown (the reputed pilot who brought down the Red Barron)... Check it out.

http://www.redbaron-themovie.com/index_en.html

The other theory is that the Red Baron ws shot down by an Aussie infantryman...[huh] [huh] :eusa_doh:

 

[Lulu-in-Ny]

Nice. I have always been a tad fascinated with this guy, ever since I was a kid. I saw a picture of him in a book, and he just seemed so sweet-looking. I don't know, maybe a little dead-guy crush... The movie looks pretty good, though, so I'll be waiting.

 

[drjones]

oooo!

this looks like it'll be an interesting movie. Im excited for it to come out now.

DRJONES

 

[Chas]

>>The other theory is that the Red Baron ws shot down by an Aussie infantryman...

More like a probability, actually. Judging from the forensic evidence it is likely that it was groundfire from the Aussies that killed him, but surety is impossible.

It is interesting to note that both Mick Mannock and Richtofen were both killed by groundfire - and both had established operating procedures in their respective squadrons that forbade new pilots from persuing "easy kills" below a certain altitude.

The explanation is that it was generally accepted by all pilots that, eventually, each was destined to go down in flames. This grim fatalism was pervasive among the German pilots at this stage of the war, being faced with overwhelming odds. The Allies were numerous, better trained and flew excellent a/c by this phase of the war. I believe that this fatalism impaired his judgement.

The other issue is that some months before Richtofen suffered a head wound that made him more melancholy and this may also have affected his judgement on that day.

Wilfred "Wop" May, the pilot that The Baron was chasing when he was shot down, was a newbie who was panicking when he saw who was chasing him. He did none of the expected things when the Baron was trying to get into optimal firing position; I believe that the Baron was so intent on getting May that he failed to notice how low he was flying, which brought him into range of ground fire.

As a fighter pilot, Richtofen was only average. His real strength was as a leader and tactician. But that is another argument that I will gladly entertain on another post.

One last interesting side note: I purchased a 1920's tux from a fellow here in Vancouver BC who's father it belonged to. He pulled something else out of the closet. An RFC uniform in perfect condition. He said, "this belonged to my dad's older brother. He was killed by Richtofen. I plan on donating it to a museum".

I couldn't convince him to part with it.... understandable.

 

[The Wolf]

You mean Snoopy didn't shoot down the Baron?

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Chas]

You mean Snoopy didn't shoot down the Baron?

No, and Charlie Brown was never able to kick that football, either.

 

[Twitch]

It is "probable" that gunners on the ground hit von Richtofen but as mentioned impossible to confirm.

 

[LocktownDog]

Can't wait. Love that period.

Richard

 

[Badluck Brody]

Wait a minute!!!

Now I'm really upset!!!

1st the Red Barron is some young blonde kid, who dosen't look like Tom Selleck (on the Pizza box!)... Then you tell me snoopy didn't bring him down!!

So they lied on the song?!!!

This is more than I can handle.... Where's the whiskey, someone call my shrink!!!!!!

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I always thought that Formula 1 champion Michael Schumacher should play Richtofen, even if he's a little old. They have the same steely expression.

 

[Jedburgh OSS]

Another 1971 production

"Von Richthofen and Brown" was made 37 years ago by Roger Corman (need I say more?) I don't remember much about this apparently forgettable flick other than I enjoyed watching the old planes in flight. Today the CGI technicians need to slow down the turns and maneuvers. Some of the scenes, like in "Flyboys," look too video gamish. But, hey, movies of the Great War period are far and few between, so I'll take what I can get. The Air Force museum at Wright-Pat near Dayton, Ohio has a piece of fabric and the tachometer cable from the Red Baron's plane. Thanks for the heads up and link.

 

[Twitch]

Here is a segment of a much larger piece I wrote some time ago. Earlier in his career this fight could have easily been his last if he'd made the slightest error here........

DUEL OF THE TITANS
Everyone knows Baron Manfred von Richtofen as the leading ace of World War I. But an obscure combat fought in 1916 with an inferior enemy biplane was nearly his undoing. His opponent was none other than the superb pilot Major George Lanoe Hawker.

WW I fighter pilots were a risk-taking bunch. Most fought seemingly with utter disregard for their own safety in the air. The called their fragile fighters “kites” and “crates” back then. George Hawker personified this in his wild aerial exploits. Shy and quiet on the ground he transformed into a virtuoso once airborne.

On April 18, 1915 he climbed into a decrepit B.E.2e two-seater alone and headed for the Zeppelin sheds in Belgium. The B.E.2e had a top speed of only 85 MPH and was armed with a single .30 caliber Lewis drum-fed machine gun usually manned from the observer’s cockpit. Hawker had only three light bombs and a lapful of hand grenades.

As he passed the enemy lines ground fire criss-crossed the sky towards him. When he reached his target heavier AA (anti-aircraft) fire met him. WW I pilots called AA fire “Archie.” Hawker dodged about the rain of metal. Black cotton balls of flak burst around him and bullets sang as they passed through the fabric covering of the biplane. A balloon tethered nearby mounted a machine guns and it threw slugs at him too.

His 90 HP 8-cylinder Royal Aircraft Factory engine screamed as he tried on two passes to hit the flak gun without success. Throwing bombs from a moving plane in 1915 was a thing of luck. He hauled the plane up above the balloon and flew in tight circles to assess the situation. All the guns stopped for fear of hitting the balloon.

SURE CURE FOR GAS
Then he had an idea. He pulled the pins of two grenades and dropped them on the balloon. The explosions ripped the gas bag and the thing folded up as it deflated. The observer donned a parachute and escaped. Hawker figured-eighted about the thing through its descent and then poured on the throttle as it neared the ground, all the while shielded from the guns below.

Hawker threw his last bomb, which pierced the Zeppelin shed’s roof and exploded the hydrogen gas bag of the huge ship. The concussion beat his plane around the sky as its airframe groaned in agony. He adjusted the engine controls and staggered back towards his lines. By then even German officers with pistols were shooting at him. When he landed at Abeele Airdrome thirty-eight holes were counted in his kite.

The Zep base was never used for the valuable hydrogen bagged airships again. The Germans moved “Gotha” long-range bombers there instead.

On July 25, 1915 he went aloft in a Bristol “Scout” to intercept a German Aviatik observation plane harassing British troops. With an altitude advantage he swooped down. He saw the observer tapping the pilot’s shoulder for more speed to escape the Anglander. The German pilot was so engrossed on watching Hawker closing he slammed into the ground.

That afternoon another Aviatik was encountered over British lines and the Scout bore in to point blank range before Hawker depressed the Lewis’ trigger. The upper wing mounted gun fired a long stream of .303 caliber bullets into the enemy planes and it rolled over and crashed.

On his way home Hawker spotted a Rumpler two-seater heading east. Winging over the Lewis again spat fire. The observer returned the favor and holed Hawker’s wings. On a second pass the Rumpler slid away un-hit. Now Hawker dove below and popped back the stick. The responsive elevators bounced him up right behind the German and he threw a stream of lead into the Mercedes engine blowing it up. Gasoline sprayed out of it and the hot metal ignited it. Flames spread quickly and the plane bore into the ground leaving a finger of smoke in the sky to mark its demise.

To get one kill in a day was a feat in 1915 but three was astounding. For this action Hawker was awarded one of only nineteen Victoria Crosses given to airmen in WW I. He was promoted to Major and pulled from action.

When the “Fokker Menace” had appeared Geoffery De Havilland designed a rather odd plane in the Airco D.H.2. Though clumsy looking it beat the first generation Fokker monoplanes soundly. The modest Hawker trained pilots for five months in the art of aerial combat and they worshipped him. He never lost his temper and mistakes were met with patient tutoring. In February 1916 Hawker returned to combat in France.

RICHTOFEN’S TEACHER
Oswald B??lcke was more than an ace. He developed tactics and rules of engagement he honed since his early days with Max Immelman in Fokker monoplanes. “B??lcke Dicta” was even acknowledged by Viet Nam era’s U. S. Navy ace, Randy “Duke” Cunningham. Richtofen learned well as B??lcke’s student and in 1916 was flying the Albatros D-II.

On October 28, 1916Hauptmann B??lcke was leading Jagdstaffel 2 with Richtofen training four newer pilots when they saw two D.H.2’s of Hawker’s 24th Squadron. B??lcke dived down on the unsuspecting Englishmen with wingman Erwin Bohme alongside. Bohme’s wing just touched B??lcke’s who broke off the attack as his upper wing began to peel fragments. The Albatros fell shedding pieces until the entire wing crumpled and, to the horror of the group, smashed to earth.

With 40-victory ace Captain B??lcke’s death the Staffel command was given to Lt. Hans Kirmaier. Richtofen had been passed over for now though he would lead later. The Baron’s bitterness at the Imperial High Command and especially the 24th Squadron was strong. He reasoned that if the 24th’s D.H.2s were not in the air that day B??lcke would not have died.

THE KNIGHTS ENGAGE
Richtofen’s first kill was on September 17, 1916 and by November he had ten. It was a good flying day on November 23rd. Hawker had seven confirmed and probably thirty more. In WW I aerial victories were awarded only if the plane’s wreckage was confirmed from the ground. With many kills gained on the German side of enemy lines most could never be confirmed.

The beginning stage of the combat between Hawker and von Richctofen was not seen but the Baron said that Hawker’s D.H.2 dived on him. This seems unlikely to most experts who mention that B??lcke’s teachings stressed altitude advantage and it seems unlikely that Richtofen would disregard this. The British contention is that if Hawker had initiated a fight whilst diving he would have flamed the Albatros right off- end of top ace to be. Was Richtofen too vain to admit that it was actually he that had missed in a perfect initial bounce?

Whoever commenced the combat, when they were first observed from the ground they were already locked in a swirling dogfight. G forces pummeled the two eagles, each of who sought to gain advantage and gain a close enough proximity to use their talons. It took three or four turns with the wings vertical to the ground before Hawker opened up with the .303. Holes appeared in the Albatros’ fabric tail but the German did have an advantage. His crate had more power than the D.H.2 and the two Spandau machine guns were belt fed where the single Lewis’ 50-round ammo drums had to be replaced when empty.

THIS GUY’S GOOD!
Richtofen realized that he had met an equal or superior pilot. He tried to elude Hawker but the Major used stick and rudder to snap over onto the other wing as the D-II attempted to twist away. The nose dragged around with the Lewis protruding like a stinger as Hawker hammered away. The Baron had matched the maneuver and now the .303 was no longer on his tail. Hawker waved congratulations and Richtofen waved back, happy he’d extricated himself from the British gun sight.

The pair squared off once more as altitude was now 3,500 feet and wind was pushing them into German territory. The pair of 7.92 mms spit lead as Richtofen managed to get behind Hawker. The German was tiring but the Brit had it worse sitting in the front of the D.H.2’s wide-open cockpit continually blasted by the cold November air.

Hawker at times cut his throttle while turning allowing the D-II to roar in front of him as he fired. He snap rolled right and turned tightly then snap rolled left and turned tighter. He then waved to Richtofen again but the Baron didn’t understand why. Was it congratulations or farewell so Hawker could get back over his lines again or what?

The D.H.2 began a loop and Richtofen recognized that it was a “wind out” maneuver to break for home. Hawker pointed the nose down full throttle to gain distance. It was very risky diving vertically. The D.H.2 wailed as wind rushed through the supports and the Gnome Monsoupape bellowed. With all his strength Hawker pulled out at 100 feet to the squealing of the plane’s wooden frame as the wings bowed upward under protest and “Gs” assaulted him.

The sturdy Albatros was able pull up at a shallower angle but von Richtofen encountered strong g-forces as well. But he was now in perfect position at six o’clock and fired again. German was tiring but the Brit had it worse sitting in the front of the D.H.2’s wide-open cockpit continually blasted by the cold

Hawker was looking behind at the D-II and anticipated the burst. He skidded right and the rounds passed to his left. He skidded left as the projectiles passed to the right. He feinted turns and Richtofen missed again and again. His bursts were getting longer and longer as he desperately sprayed and prayed.

The D.H.2 was making for British lines like a mad corkscrew when Richtofen luckily got in a long burst. The fighter slammed into the ground from less than 100 feet. Hawker was dead.

When its realized who he was, Major Hawker was buried by the Germans with full honors. He was barely twenty-six years old. A single bullet had struck the back of his head. A single round from over 900 fired by von Richtofen! He’d used almost all his ammo on the plucky Englishman. The Baron, who went on to score 80 victories, hung Hawker’s Lewis gun over his fireplace as a reminder of his toughest battle.

In this time of chivalry Manfren von Richtofen flew over the 24th’s airdrome and dropped a note telling his mates of Hawker’s demise. On April 21, 1918 the favor was returned when an RAF pilot of the 309th Squadron flew over the home of Jagdstaffel 11 dropping another note saying Richtofen was dead. It is said Roy Brown in a Sopwith Camel had bested the red Fokker triplane of the Red Baron with a single burst. Modern scientific research proves that a machine gunner on the ground probably did the deed.

 

[Smithy]

Anybody interested in Richthofen's death should get hold of "The Red Baron's Last Flight" by Norman Franks and Alan Bennett. It's probably the most exhaustive study of the 21st April 1918. Very readable with excellent research.

 

[SamMarlowPI]

this is gonna be great...much better than FlyBoys i think
i'd also like to see a film on Erich Hartmann...

 

[Dixon Cannon]

-dixon cannon

 

[Dixon Cannon]

-dixon cannon

 

[Jovan]

Nice. Costumes look fairly accurate. I'm just wondering how they'll handle the whole pilot vs. machine gunner who downed him. Maybe he gets undue credit or something? I guess if anything, it would make an entertaining movie more than a historical account.

 

[ratpack66]

I just watched the trailer.Looks fantastic I hope it comes to American theaters soon or on dvd.I can't wait for it since I'm an admirer of The Red Baron and old
time aviation.

 

[RetroModelSari]

Me and John look forward to this movie a lot! I readed on Wikipedia that the German release date is almost xactly 90 years after the Red Baron death. I´m allways glad to see a German movie about the past as I feel they are more subtle than the Hollywood-blockbusters (such as Goodbye Lenin, The Harmonists, Sass).

However when it comes to movies that ARE actually Vintage I have a preference for american ones cause the costumes and the settings are more chic.

Yay for the Red Baron.