(The Real) CiDu Leather

[Canuck Panda]

Spend less, live better. I copied that from Walmart. And this is what this thread is about, and then some.

Before I begin, I don't suggest buying these Cidu jackets from Aliexpress or any of the western selling platforms, including Etsy, Ebay...etc. Even on Taobao, you might get a fake one. I know, fake Cidu, WTF. But that's how it is over there. When the stuff sells, there will be knock offs, even if its knock offs of knock offs of knock offs. You get what I mean. (The Chinese Dollar) Yuan is King. This is why we get similar staged photos, and messed up patterns and everything in between:

Now onto the (Real) Cidu jackets:

This one was ¥1500 (USD 230 plus shipping)
Advertised as Chinese Chromexcel Horsehide, 3.5 to 4oz.
In reality it's more 3 to 3.5oz. But my theory is that the Chinese factories thin everything down to fit their machine for mass production.

This is a very solid jacket for the money. Punches at least two classes above its weight.

My negatives with this is how it was shipped. They literally vacuum packed it and then pressed it into a brick to save on shipping cost. Not the best first impression.

The other negative is that this jacket uses snaps with RRL logo on it. Easy fix for me, but I understand how it can bother others.

This particular pattern also doesn't have much chest to hem drop. But it's western sized. The Cidu 2XL is basically an American Large. Or size 42 to 44 depending on brands. It has about 19.5" Shoulder, 23.5" P2P, 25.5" Sleeves and back length.

When I first received this jacket I was looking at it with my prejudice lens on. The first impression just felt wrong. From the compressed packaging to the RRL logo on snaps. I left the jacket out on the back porch for two days before I went back to it. The jacket didn't change but my perception did. And I am glad I was able to see it without my China goggles on.

I also got this waxed canvas Trialmaster. The sleeves are short. Just over 24". Mine could've been a QC mistake, because the size table said 25.5" Sleeves. I plan to swap out the sleeves with leather ones down the road. This one was ¥1000 (USD 155 + Shipping), so I have some budget to fix it.

I also got about a dozen other Cidu jackets coming . I was impulsive, but for the price of one Aero jacket I ended up with a collection of jackets designs that I've wanted to try.

(Real) Cidu jackets are only marketed in China, not to the rest of the world. But yet he makes them in western sizing and some leather options that are not praised in China. 90 percent of the stuff he sells are knock off junks, but this is what his customers buys. My theory is that he does it to fund his own heritage clothing hobby. The aviator jacket I have coming will prove my theory right or wrong.

Members with better China lingo please help me out. What does this mean? Is it WeChat?

Cidu offers custom orders if I translated this correctly, for ¥500 (USD 77) plus cost of all materials. That's how low the labor cost to make a jacket is over there. From pattern design to sewing it all together. I don't know how to do this, what does VX: OUMEIGONGLVE mean?

I've also tried to reach out to Cidu on his facebook page, but nothing. Could be a fake account, not sure.

What started as something to pass the time while waiting for custom jackets has turned out something totally unexpected for me.

More to come.

 

[Worf]

Errrr.... thanks? Not being snotty... just don't know how anyone can spend good money on what you clearly know are knockoffs at best. But it's an interesting read and I thank you for your research.

Worf

 

[Dionysus]

Thanks for the interesting write-up. But it puzzles me when you said "spend less", I think the money you invested on 5star (6 or 7 jackets?) and this Cindu (and none of them seems fits you very well), you can buy several jackets made by the top maker. Something I just couldn't understand.

 

[navetsea]

That trial master fits you great at whatever price point.
the cr probably looks better with the collar folded in or taken out as collarless racing jacket, on the flat picture it looks great, with side waist zip adjuster and all but the neck hole looks a bit big, but perhaps you need a size smaller since the body can also be tighter fit on you.

 

[Rich22]

Spend less, live better. I copied that from Walmart. And this is what this thread is about, and then some.

Before I begin, I don't suggest buying these Cidu jackets from Aliexpress or any of the western selling platforms, including Etsy, Ebay...etc. Even on Taobao, you might get a fake one. I know, fake Cidu, WTF. But that's how it is over there. When the stuff sells, there will be knock offs, even if its knock offs of knock offs of knock offs. You get what I mean. (The Chinese Dollar) Yuan is King. This is why we get similar staged photos, and messed up patterns and everything in between:
View attachment 367674
Now onto the (Real) Cidu jackets:

This one was ¥1500 (USD 230 plus shipping)
Advertised as Chinese Chromexcel Horsehide, 3.5 to 4oz.
In reality it's more 3 to 3.5oz. But my theory is that the Chinese factories thin everything down to fit their machine for mass production.

View attachment 367675
View attachment 367678

This is a very solid jacket for the money. Punches at least two classes above its weight.

My negatives with this is how it was shipped. They literally vacuum packed it and then pressed it into a brick to save on shipping cost. Not the best first impression.

View attachment 367688

The other negative is that this jacket uses snaps with RRL logo on it. Easy fix for me, but I understand how it can bother others.

This particular pattern also doesn't have much chest to hem drop. But it's western sized. The Cidu 2XL is basically an American Large. Or size 42 to 44 depending on brands. It has about 19.5" Shoulder, 23.5" P2P, 25.5" Sleeves and back length.

View attachment 367716
When I first received this jacket I was looking at it with my prejudice lens on. The first impression just felt wrong. From the compressed packaging to the RRL logo on snaps. I left the jacket out on the back porch for two days before I went back to it. The jacket didn't change but my perception did. And I am glad I was able to see it without my China goggles on.

I also got this waxed canvas Trialmaster. The sleeves are short. Just over 24". Mine could've been a QC mistake, because the size table said 25.5" Sleeves. I plan to swap out the sleeves with leather ones down the road. This one was ¥1000 (USD 155 + Shipping), so I have some budget to fix it.

View attachment 367748
I also got about a dozen other Cidu jackets coming . I was impulsive, but for the price of one Aero jacket I ended up with a collection of jackets designs that I've wanted to try.

(Real) Cidu jackets are only marketed in China, not to the rest of the world. But yet he makes them in western sizing and some leather options that are not praised in China. 90 percent of the stuff he sells are knock off junks, but this is what his customers buys. My theory is that he does it to fund his own heritage clothing hobby. The aviator jacket I have coming will prove my theory right or wrong.

Members with better China lingo please help me out. What does this mean? Is it WeChat?

View attachment 367758

Cidu offers custom orders if I translated this correctly, for ¥500 (USD 77) plus cost of all materials. That's how low the labor cost to make a jacket is over there. From pattern design to sewing it all together. I don't know how to do this, what does VX: OUMEIGONGLVE mean?

I've also tried to reach out to Cidu on his facebook page, but nothing. Could be a fake account, not sure.

What started as something to pass the time while waiting for custom jackets has turned out something totally unexpected for me.

More to come.

I think OUMEIGONGLVE is just a username... Ou mei gong lue has a meaning, but he's swapped the U for a V for stylistic reasons like Bvlgari do.

 

[Marc mndt]

I think the money you invested on 5star (6 or 7 jackets?) and this Cindu (and none of them seems fits you very well), you can buy several jackets made by the top maker. Something I just couldn't understand.

I would also rather have one jacket from a top maker than 6 or 7 mediocre jackets instead.

I get the argument that you like to try different styles without having to spend big bucks, I've gone down the same path myself. But personally I'd rather buy a vintage / second hand jacket if it's only to try out a new style. Because I'll be able to recoup my money in case the jacket doesn’t work for me.

 

[Rich22]

Just having a look at Cidu products on Taobao out of curiosity: I like the reference to "Rock Can Roll"

Edit: It annoys me that the model and photographer didn't choose to do up the sleeve zips... it looks so sloppy with sleeves too wide and long for the model.

 

[ton312]

I appreciate the pioneer spirit! The CR looks good to me. I’d wear it! There’s something fun about the bargain bin. Sometimes you catch a break. Something unexpected.

 

[Guppy]

I don't think either of the jackets pictured above look like they fit poorly.

I think the idea of "swapping out" the sleeves is crazy, but it's your jacket.

As far as knock-offs go, there's knock-offs and then there's knock-offs.

A lot of what I see sold in the Chinese market uses stolen photos. Theodoros from Thedi Leather doesn't moonlight as a fashion model for his knockoffs, but you see him "selling" their jackets all the time on taobao or aliexpress. Those are stolen photos and the sellers are dishonest. The products aren't what are pictured, although they might mix in some photos of what they're really selling. You can be sure they're inferior, but may still be a value approximate to the price point to own. But I wouldn't own something I know they're lying to me about.

Regarding the RRL snap caps, well it's technically a violation of RRL's trademark BUT one wonders, given that RRL makes a lot of their clothes in china, if you're getting the same thing from the same assembly line, but without the "official" branding and thus getting the same physical thing without the same metaphysical legal pride associated with paying the full retail markup for the same thing.

One never knows, really, unless you have the real deal to put side by side and compare, but I suspect in a lot of those cases the snaps may well be authentic RRL snaps sourced from the same factory, but probably the other materials are not the same and are cheaper/inferior.

If the complaint is that the patterns are knocking off the high end makers, that goes on in the fashion world all the time. Not everybody can afford Fendi, Gucci, Armani, whatever, but they want something that evokes the look that is affordable within their budget. A lot of clothing is made in sweatshops under deplorable conditions and I don't think you can make a legitimate argument that exploiting cheap labor is ever acceptable, but if the dilemma is a choice between bypassing the retail and branding markup to buy the same thing made by the same people, and get it at something approximating the wholesale cost of the real article, and rewarding the exploiters of sweatshop labor by paying full price for the genuine article, I think it's reasonable to want to deny the exploiters their profit. What really gets me is the buttons that say "UNION MADE" when there's no way in hell there's a Chinese garment maker's union standing up for worker's rights and ensuring they're being fairly compensated. (Well, I assume not -- if there is, I'd love to know.)

All the high end makers doing reproductions of vintage/classic styles are in some sense "knocking off" the original brands like Windward, Montgomery & Ward, Monarch, Buco, Levis, Schott, or whoever. No one has a problem with this. The good companies like Aero and Himel are exceeding the quality spec of the originals and delivering good value while compensating their workers fairly. So if Cidu wants to make a leather Type 3 Trucker at a $250 price point, and Aero also wants to make a leather Type 3 Trucker at a $1100 price point, as long as Cidu uses their own photography, I have no problem at all with them doing that. If they sell honestly, I don't care if they are producing yet-another copy of a classic style, since literally everyone else is doing exactly that.

If a knockoff brand is knocking off a unique new style, and creating a counterfeit experience down to ripping off the branding labels, that's a bit different. There's some of that going on in China for sure, but not all of it is that. The real trouble is being able to differentiate and find the good stuff when you can't see and handle it in person because you're visiting the market virtually through a web browser.

Still, Aliexpress will tell you whether the seller takes returns or not, so that mitigates a lot of the risk if they do. The shipping and waiting is time consuming and inconvenient, but if you can get your money back if you're not satisfied for any reason, the risks are minimal, and therefore reasonable.

 

[Marc mndt]

What really gets me is the buttons that say "UNION MADE" when there's no way in hell there's a Chinese garment maker's union standing up for worker's rights and ensuring they're being fairly compensated. (Well, I assume not -- if there is, I'd love to know.)

Funny, Fine Creek uses the same 'union made' donut buttons.

 

[Canuck Panda]

My theory for the RRL snaps and the Union Made buttons is that they are literally the best quality hardware available to him, in the sense that they are real solid brass and not cheap steel ones. So he used them. Plus his customers, the domestic China heritage shoppers, can’t afford the real thing on their monthly salary (1/6th of American standards), chose to get the next best thing. I understand this. I also understand the look down on knock off part. But if I cut my monthly income by 5/6th, I can’t even put a roof over my head, let alone the jacket hobby. Hence my perspectives changed while the products stayed the same.

I still would NOT suggest AliExpress or other sellers because they are stealing marketing material, and they are targeting the western shoppers. It’s like the guy selling fakes on 5th Ave. Don’t buy from that guy.

FWIW, I didn’t find Thedi modeling for Cidu on his Taobao page. Nor did I find Ralph hanging around in his Langlitz. But key words like NOtThedi or RRL were used frequently. Again, Cidu is targeting domestic Chinese shoppers who are looking for the best they can afford. Not everyone can afford the real RRL.

I had an Aero Cafe racer and still have a Trialmaster jacket from Simmonsbilt, who was actually the supplier for Barbour International when they did the leather version. I don’t think Cidu copied the design from Thedi for the Trialmaster design. Heavily inspired yes, but that design also doesn’t belong to Thedi. The Brits were the first with that design.

My old Aero cafe racer was a size too small, I never got to enjoy it. It was a 1200 dollar mistake. I can make my fit pics of the Cidu look like that, but I wanted to illustrate how it came out of the compressed package raw. I find that if I did some push ups or pull ups before taking pics I can make them look Instagram worth, but that’s not real life.

I am not ditching the expensive custom makers for Cidu. In fact the half bitten D pocket on a Cidu jacket is gonna help me complete the missing piece on my expensive custom Top Notch repro. That’s why I am looking forward to it.

In reality, Cidu is not relevant outside of China. I just happen to be the weird guy who goes down to the dive bar every now and then. My Taobao adventure story wasn’t intended to offend anyone. I’m sorry if it did. I was just trying to give some raw footage and a glimpse into different parts of the leather jacket world. If there was a leather jacket maker in Antarctica, I be trying to get some of that too.

 

[navetsea]

At sewing supply shop here there are buttons and rivets with whatever brand you like, maybe the most harmlest idea is so you can repair your missing button or poped rivets. They look like being made from good metal and have nicer finish compared to generic buttons, not surprising when they just use them since they just look nicer. I wont be surprised to see a cheap jeans on the cheap outlet shop here with rivets says Boss, zipper says Levi, and the waist button is medusa head.... lol.

 

[Mich486]

Funny, Fine Creek uses the same 'union made' donut buttons.

View attachment 367801

They are on it because is a Lee jacket reproduction. The union made tags/buttons are found on many repros made across the world. It’s a little detail that some may care about although clearly that union is (was?) just an American thing.

The funny thing to me is using those buttons outside of repros. I guess it kind of shows the maker is just trying to knock off something without really understanding what they are doing.

 

[navetsea]

every raw jeans here has union tag somewhere, even when in my country union of premium raw jeans makers sell for 10x the price of mall jeans don't exist. while mall jeans never come with union tag.

 

[Will Zach]

You gonna have 14 of those jackets?From your fit pics the patterns are not great, pretty tubular. But if you like them enough to buy 12 (!) more, wow, just wow. I don't know what to say, keep those pics coming, maybe there will be some gems in there.

 

[handymike]

I found Cidu to fit me well. I’m a 38ish and wore a Large.

 

[Cheech]

I’ve seen a few Cidu jackets on AliExpress that have struck my eye for their bold, unique designs. Given my luck with top-notch Japanese jackets (they don’t tend to fit my tall, somewhat athletic frame very well), I imagine I’d fare even worse with these budget Chinese jackets. However, the latter’ price point makes it likely that I’ll sample their wares at some point.

 

[Fonzie]

View attachment 367838

Thanks for the thread @Canuck Panda , I enjoy your contributions a lot and your adventurous spirit exploring different styles and brands.
Do you know the model or link to that two-tone cross-zip one?
I think it’s based on a The Flat Head model of a few years back, I’ve always loved that jacket.

 

[TheBigEraser]

Thanks for the thread @Canuck Panda , I enjoy your contributions a lot and your adventurous spirit exploring different styles and brands.
Do you know the model or link to that two-tone cross-zip one?
I think it’s based on a The Flat Head model of a few years back, I’ve always loved that jacket.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-17817907926.47.417f204coSGvTX&id=654988624397

I don’t know which flat head model you were referring to, I think it’s a repro/copy of Freewheelers/Bootleggers Pasadena.

Edit: update link from mobile version to laptop version.

 

[Leigh H]

I have a Cidu that i purchased just out of curiosity and I wouldn’t purchase another one again.
it just doesn't feel nice to wear. I'd rather buy a vintage jacket with the money.