the problem with buying a vintage hat online

[new2hats]

I recently bought a hat online that was advertised as 7 1/4 because that is what the tag is labelled. After I received the hat and tried it on, it was very small for me. It was more like a 7 to 7 1/8. The only reason that I did not return it was because my 7 year old daughter asked for it and I gave it to her instead of shelling out the 5-8 bucks to return to the Ebay vendor.

How common is it for hats to be labelled as a size but with ageing and shrinkage the size is really smaller than advertised? I am totally hesitant to buying a vintage hat online anymore as how can I be sure I am not wasting my time and money?
Any pointers?

 

[DJH]

With vintage hats, you'll never know for sure until you get it on your head.

As you mentioned, the hat might have suffered shrinkage ( you can often stretch it back), it might have been stretched and there is always a little variation.

You can ask the seller to give you the dimensions of the two axies of the opening and use an elipse calculator or ask them to measure the circumference. I've found both if these to be pretty unreliable though.

You'll find that it is very worthwhile when you get a vintage hat that fits perfectly, you just have to accept that this wont always be the case.

 

[splintercellsz]

You can always ask the seller to measure the hat's length, width, and circumference.

 

[jlee562]

Ironically, my last vintage hat was sold to me as a 7, but arrived and it was 7 1/4

 

[SHOWSOMECLASS]

Why not sell it here. I'm sure your daughter thought it was fun to have your hat. Here someone will surely appreciate it and give you a fair price. Sorry about the hat we have all been their w/ ebay one way or another.

 

[barrowjh]

Mis-labeling is not uncommon, and happens fairly often with new factory production hats. Ebay sellers make mistakes, whether intentional or not. I just landed one where the seller clearly stated the brim was 2-1/2in but it is only 2-3/8in wide. If the hat shrank by a full size then the leather sweatband should be really dried out.

 

[TomS]

Thats part of the hobby. Even if you dont keep a hat, every time you handle a vinatge you get a little bit more of your education in them.

 

[tonyb]

Goodness knows we've been over this territory many, many times already, but it warrants revisiting, I suppose, seeing how it's a never-ending dilemma.

Most eBay sellers know diddly about hats. Even those who think themselves well-versed usually aren't. They just don't understand that a hat with a 23-inch sweatband circumference is nowhere near the same size as a hat with a 23 1/2-inch sweatband circumference. Sometimes their listings just plain disregard the most important information, and their answers to questions from would-be bidders sometimes leave me wondering if they truly comprehend written English.

But that, in its own odd way, can be part of the fun. You can turn the sellers' ignorance to your advantage, if you are patient and use certain search terms to ferret out those roses among the thorns. And, if you didn't pay too much for a hat that isn't quite what you had hoped, chances are good that you can recover your costs by selling the hat along to someone here, via the FL (un)classifieds. It's a great resource. Me, I have many hats that don't fit. Some I bought knowing they wouldn't fit, but I wanted them just to have them here to study, and to loan out, and perhaps to pass along at some future date.

 

[gtdean48]

When I shop vintage hats online, I shop one size up & one size down from my actual size.
As you have learned, vintage hats can be smaller than their marked size due to contraction of the leather sweatband.
Leather gets tighter as it dries out = pores close as oils leave via evaporation. This will pull the felt with it.
If the sweat is in good shape, it can be coaxed back to original size. If not, new one can be installed after blocking to original size.
One size smaller can usually be blocked up with little trouble.
Getting a seller to accurately measure the inside circumference is a challenge. Getting the front & side diameters & using ellipse calculator is easier.

 

[hatophile]

I do what Tom does, usually I luck out. If it's a hat I really really like and I can't get it to fit, I will send to Optimo for a redo.

 

[randooch]

Another complication when asking a seller to provide sweatband measurements is illustrated below. They may tell you it's 6 7/8 across, and they wouldn't be lying, but your head wouldn't contact the sweat at that measurement; 6 1/2 would be more accurate in this case. So you use an online ellipse calculator based on useless figures, get your hopes up, and wind up with a hat that doesn't fit.

 

[new2hats]

How do the hatters check size of the hats before they go out, do they use a manniken head?

There should be an industry term that denotes accurate size, probably using inches or cm not US/UK size numbers.

For instance: "this hat is certified 58 cm"

 

[gtdean48]

How do the hatters check size of the hats before they go out, do they use a manniken head?

There should be an industry term that denotes accurate size, probably using inches or cm not US/UK size numbers.

For instance: certified 58 cm

There is a tool that has a pair of handles like scissors that as you spread them apart works a circular band that expands inside the hat.
There are markings to show the size. This tool was reproduced from vintage version for Loungers a year or so back. Photos should still be available...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...igh-quality.&p=1412877&viewfull=1#post1412877

 

[new2hats]

is this something that one can readily purchase?

 

[LoveMyHats2]

I am sure you could find a measuring device like what has been shown. I think for the most part, NOT being an expert of hats myself and that my Wife finds most of the hats I own and buys them for me...she (after a lot of conversation with me) will always ask a long list of questions about a hat before bidding or making any purchase. You should ask questions, but first off make sure of what your own head measures, not a "hat size" but an actual measurement of your head. I will tell you why this is fairly important.

Some hats can be marked any size, that label of a hat size does not mean it is really true to being accurate. But an actual measurement can be very accurate. I normally wear a size between a 7 3/8 and a 7 1/2, and many times a 7 3/8 long oval marked hat fits very good, other times that same label sized hat will be far too tight. To avoid the issues of having a hat too small, I prefer to get a hat in a 7 1/2, and that so far has assured a good enough fit. If I need to, I can fold up a few tissues (or a few dollar bills) and place them behind the sweatband to snug up a hat. But if I know the inside measurement in inches, I will know it if will be a good fitting hat or not.

As some will say, the more hats you obtain and learn from, you will eventually have more luck in finding hats to fit you from an "on line source", and learn more about hats in general. I am still myself in the learning stage and will more than not learn a ton more each year. There are some very "expert" hat members of the lounge, they can tell you far more then I could.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Another complication when asking a seller to provide sweatband measurements is illustrated below. They may tell you it's 6 7/8 across, and they wouldn't be lying, but your head wouldn't contact the sweat at that measurement; 6 1/2 would be more accurate in this case. So you use an online ellipse calculator based on useless figures, get your hopes up, and wind up with a hat that doesn't fit.

Randall, is that hat for sale? O.O !!!

 

[seabass]

I have this dohicky thingy to measure a hat
but that does not help you much...game of chance buying on-line
but if i trade or sell i can provide a true measurement

it has the taper & this handy edge for the sweat bead to sit on

I would love to have the sissor thingy but this works for me
Any of our resident hatters know what this ?

oh i get the measurement after i set it in the hat remove & measure with a tailors tape

or i take it with me if im on the lookout for hats for family/friends at the fleamarket, thriftstores etc.

 

[Johnny J]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compass-siz...357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c27a4ed45

It ain't cheap.

 

[Johnny J]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/555694446/hat_circumference_measuring_tool.html

This place is more reasonable in price. I think they start somewhere in the $60.00s and they have 3 different sizes.

 

[seabass]

WoW Johnny cheep it aint.....
& my antique thingy has a Oval shape verses the round circle on the sissors...