The phenomenon of shrinking/expanding jackets

[Formeruser012524]

I've heard from someone that it has been known to happen that a jacket changes its length after some months or years. Somewhat of a mystery, and AFAIK it's fairly rare, but in any case a jacket may somewhat shrink, or also get larger/longer, after a certain time period has passed.

I assume that this is based on the type of hide, but perhaps there are other factors involved such as quality of the hide, maybe even its thickness, plus how it was treated/processed/finished, or all of the above.

On another website (pretty long ago) I have read that jackets made from lamb, sheep, or any hide that is very flexible and especially "strechable", would be able to grow a bit over the years, whereas leather jackets made from steerhide would be very unlikely if not impossible to stretch/grow.

I'd love to know for the future, let's say I wanted a jacket where I preferred it shrinking over time instead of stretching/growing, would steerhide be the safest way to go? And also the opposite question, if I really wouldn't mind a jacket getting a bit longer after some months or years. Ideally, of course, the best way would be for it not to change it's length at all.

So which factors influence the way a jacket changes its "length" after a significant period of time. I'm sure the Fedora Lounge has some discussions about this phenomenon happening, but I'm not sure on what the explanations/speculations are as to what causes this, and what hides are affected in different ways.

Really appreciate your help.

 

[Harris HTM]

Some member here claim that due to wrinkling the sleeves seem shorter by half an inch or so.
Once upon a time, a schitzo member made some ridiculous claims about shrinking FQHH.
Most of my jackets are FQHH, I also own steer, deer, goat... I have never ever experienced any shrinkage or dilatation.

 

[ton312]

Shrinking leather generally only happens when water AND heat are applied together. Water in and of itself won't cause much shrinkage (if any at all) if it's air dried carefully. I also do not subscribe to the notion of "shrinking creases" from wear.
There has been discussion on stretching leather. I have attempted this with cuff openings on a cxl jacket with no success, I do suspect a thinner hide would have stretched. Also very delibarate though. Soak the leather and stuff it so it expands and dries that way. Typpical ear and tear should not result in leather going in either direction.

 

[Marc mndt]

Good question. My gut feeling tells me that steerhide / horsehide does shrink a bit when aging but that it'll take decades and that the amount of shrinkage will be relatively limited. But a cannot substantiate this claim because I haven't owned a jacket long enough for the shrinking to be noticeable.

I do know that Thedi Leathers has a method of artificially aging the leather which they call 'washing' which I think involves heating the jacket which makes it shrink. They cut the panels for the jacket slighly bigger in order to compensate for the shrinkage. @jonesy86 that's what they've done with your goatskin jacket right?

Vegetable tanned leathers are more susceptible to shrinking than chrome tanned leathers. If I remember correctly @JCSD had a vegetable tanned leather jacket that shrunk substantially.

The tanning / drying process is also a factor. Tanneries will stretch leathers in order to produce larger hides. The more the hides are stretched at the tanneries, the more the final jacket will be susceptible to shrinkage.

Personally I don't think shrinking is a factor that should be taken into account when ordering a jacket, simply because there's know way of knowing how much a hide was stretched at the tannery.

I have experienced sleeves or body length getting shorter within let's say a year but that was due to creasing and the jacket molding to the body.

 

[Canuck Panda]

You've gotta be more specific than that. What leather are you looking at? From whom and what are they calling it?
Shrunken leather (heat dried leather at the factory) cannot shrink any further. No matter what magical crease method one claims. CXL is one of these leather. Comp Weight is another good example. Check's Horween's tannage list. It spells out how every tannage is made.
Stretched leather (toggle dried leather at the factory) can potentially shrink, or the better term would be molded. Usually these type of heavy veg tanned leather are intended for wet molding. Add water and heat to form a certain shape. So yes. they will shrink in spots during the process to get the final shape, like a gun holster. Some of these types of stretched leather has made their way into the garments. Unfortunately some lower cost ones tend to be factory stretched to get more square footage. Some intended some not so much.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Cool, interesting thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Aloysius]

I've heard from someone that it has been known to happen that a jacket changes its length after some months or years. Somewhat of a mystery, and AFAIK it's fairly rare, but in any case a jacket may somewhat shrink, or also get larger/longer, after a certain time period has passed.

I assume that this is based on the type of hide, but perhaps there are other factors involved such as quality of the hide, maybe even its thickness, plus how it was treated/processed/finished, or all of the above.

On another website (pretty long ago) I have read that jackets made from lamb, sheep, or any hide that is very flexible and especially "strechable", would be able to grow a bit over the years, whereas leather jackets made from steerhide would be very unlikely if not impossible to stretch/grow.

I'd love to know for the future, let's say I wanted a jacket where I preferred it shrinking over time instead of stretching/growing, would steerhide be the safest way to go? And also the opposite question, if I really wouldn't mind a jacket getting a bit longer after some months or years. Ideally, of course, the best way would be for it not to change it's length at all.

So which factors influence the way a jacket changes its "length" after a significant period of time. I'm sure the Fedora Lounge has some discussions about this phenomenon happening, but I'm not sure on what the explanations/speculations are as to what causes this, and what hides are affected in different ways.

Really appreciate your help.

I admit I've read this post a few times and despite its length I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if/how leather jackets shrink/mold? How they loosen up? Both?

 

[Formeruser012524]

I admit I've read this post a few times and despite its length I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if/how leather jackets shrink/mold? How they loosen up? Both?

Hi, thanks for your input.

Others have understood it, especially ton312 and Marc mndt. Sorry, I really did not know what proper terminology to use to exactly describe my question, but they got it and explained it well. It's really just about people buying a leather jacket and saying that after X amount of months or years their jacket has either "shrunk" or "expanded", mainly in length, even significantly, not just by a few millimeters but by larger, significant amounts. I'm merely interested in all the factors involved in that, because when I buy a jacket I'd rather make sure I get something that has the (slight) risk it might shrink overtime than stretch/expand/become longer.

Hope this helps.

 

[Aloysius]

Hi, thanks for your input.

Others have understood it, especially ton312 and Marc mndt. Sorry, I really did not know what proper terminology to use to exactly describe my question, but they got it and explained it well. It's really just about people buying a leather jacket and saying that after X amount of months or years their jacket has either "shrunk" or "expanded", mainly in length, even significantly, not just by a few millimeters but by larger, significant amounts. I'm merely interested in all the factors involved in that, because when I buy a jacket I'd rather make sure I get something that has the (slight) risk it might shrink overtime than stretch/expand/become longer.

Hope this helps.

No need for the sarcasm. I wasn't trying to mock you. The long posts really do make it difficult to follow what your point is, this most recent one included.

If I am understanding correctly, your post meant to say, "Do leather jackets shrink? If so, which ones so I can ensure that is what I get?"

That being established, leather jackets will sort of do both, in some respects at the same time. It is not always *literal* shrinking but will feel like that in practice.

For instance, I have a stiff horsehide Perfecto. The sleeves rode up a bit from creasing, while the body felt bigger at first due to the leather panels still being stiff and 'hanging'. Once it started to break in, those leather panels fit closer. At the same time, parts of the jacket that felt too snug loosened up for more comfortable wear.

Hot water treatment can also help in getting some extra shrinkage out of a jacket, hot water + drier/sun if you need to shrink it even more..

 

[Formeruser012524]

No need for the sarcasm.

?

I wasn't trying to mock you.

Of course not, I know.

The long posts really do make it difficult to follow what your point is, this most recent one included.

Okay, I will work on it so that you can better understand me in the future.

If I am understanding correctly, your post meant to say, "Do leather jackets shrink? If so, which ones so I can ensure that is what I get?"

The post meant to say, "Do some leather jackets shrink, while others expand/stretch, and if so, what are the factors involved, and how I can know that what I'm getting will be more likely to shrink vs. stretch (or not change at all)?"

That being established, leather jackets will sort of do both, in some respects at the same time. It is not always *literal* shrinking but will feel like that in practice.

For instance, I have a stiff horsehide Perfecto. The sleeves rode up a bit from creasing, while the body felt bigger at first due to the leather panels still being stiff and 'hanging'. Once it started to break in, those leather panels fit closer. At the same time, parts of the jacket that felt too snug loosened up for more comfortable wear.

Hot water treatment can also help in getting some extra shrinkage out of a jacket, hot water + drier/sun if you need to shrink it even more..

That's helpful and makes sense regarding the shrinking. What I was specifically interested in was, since I prefer leather jackets to shrink over time instead of stretch, which hides would be more prone to behaving a certain way (shrinking vs. stretching), of course with all the other factors involved, as the other users have mentioned.

I believe I've already gotten sufficient information. Thank you for your contribution as well.

 

[sweetfights]

Every CXL jacket I have purchased brand new has "shrunk". I have always lost 1/2 inch in back length after a few months. No joke- I have no explanation to give for this shrinkage other than the weather here in southern Ontario.
4 seasons, relative humidity etc. I have no idea why this happens but it certainly does to my CXL jackets.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Every CXL jacket I have purchased brand new has "shrunk". I have always lost 1/2 inch in back length after a few months. No joke- I have no explanation to give for this shrinkage other than the weather here in southern Ontario.
4 seasons, relative humidity etc. I have no idea why this happens but it certainly does to my CXL jackets.

That's about 1,3 cm in shrinkage after a relatively short amount of time. And 1,3 cm is not a big deal to me, but still very interesting information. Now I'm not sure if you know you're a dealing with a total amateur, but CXL jackets are, horsehide I presume?

 

[sweetfights]

Yes, I am referring to horsehide CXL. Not huge shrinkage but significant enough that I factor "shrinkage" into my ordered back length.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Yes, I am referring to horsehide CXL. Not huge shrinkage but significant enough that I factor "shrinkage" into my ordered back length.

That's interesting. How thick is the jacket?

 

[Aloysius]

CXL jackets are, horsehide I presume?

CXL is a combination-tan method used by Horween tannery in Chicago. It’s usually steerhide, except at Aero where the horsehide version is perhaps more common.

All CXL behaves pretty similarly. The steerhide is usually thicker and heavier.

 

[sweetfights]

That's interesting. How thick is the jacket?

Standard thick CXL from Aero. Not thin for sure.

 

[jonesy86]

Good question. My gut feeling tells me that steerhide / horsehide does shrink a bit when aging but that it'll take decades and that the amount of shrinkage will be relatively limited. But a cannot substantiate this claim because I haven't owned a jacket long enough for the shrinking to be noticeable.

I do know that Thedi Leathers has a method of artificially aging the leather which they call 'washing' which I think involves heating the jacket which makes it shrink. They cut the panels for the jacket slighly bigger in order to compensate for the shrinkage. @jonesy86 that's what they've done with your goatskin jacket right?

Vegetable tanned leathers are more susceptible to shrinking than chrome tanned leathers. If I remember correctly @JCSD had a vegetable tanned leather jacket that shrunk substantially.

The tanning / drying process is also a factor. Tanneries will stretch leathers in order to produce larger hides. The more the hides are stretched at the tanneries, the more the final jacket will be susceptible to shrinkage.

Personally I don't think shrinking is a factor that should be taken into account when ordering a jacket, simply because there's know way of knowing how much a hide was stretched at the tannery.

I have experienced sleeves or body length getting shorter within let's say a year but that was due to creasing and the jacket molding to the body.

Yeah, that's right. I arrived in Thessiloniki on a Monday from the islands, and had pressed Theodoros a bit on the competition of my jacket in time for me to wear it back home on the plane.
When I picked it up on Wednesday he told me that he had been up much of the night "tumbling" the jacket, checking it frequently to get it to the size he had envisioned for me . He is a true artist and very nice guy, who got the fit just right based on just some photos, and email messages.

I have played around with washing and drying a few jackets with some random success in shrinking them to get them to where I liked. I wouldn't dare to try this with one of the high end makers jackets though. I have also fooled around with trying to stretch some jackets by getting them a bit damp and wearing them, or pulling on the sleeves with some limited success. These were on mostly lighter weight hides.

I did try to stretch some capeskin on a GW A-1 once and cracked the leather. Proceed with caution is my advice and try to get the best fit that you can right up front and don't worry about anything changing with, accept with me maybe your waistline.

 

[Canuck Panda]

CXL White Knight here... It's true that I have also experienced creasing that gave the perception of shortening. But it's also the same with every other leather. CXL just holds its creases, and that's why it's different. (better or worse depending on your liking of CXL leather)
I bought this CXL FQHH Moonshiner from the sale page. When I got it, it was 26" back and sleeves, very typical length of how TB customer would spec it. Worn it a few times, still new, but there are creases, now it seemingly measures 1/2" shorter. I used the word seemingly because if I use a soft tape and pull I can still get the 26".

If half inch is critical to your fit requirement then yes do add half inch to your specs to accomodate the creasing. Lots of pics of fully creased sleeves out there. Just search and check them out.

The bottom back hem will always curve up after wearing. This is very evident when you've just spent hours sitting in the car.
If the back is significant shorter, check the lining. Most lining materials are not pre-shrunk, and if the weave is cut in the "shrinking" direction then it's gonna pull on the leather shell. Many vintage jackets I've seen, including my repro Barnstormer has an open bottom back lining. This actually makes a lot of sense, but is not being praised today. It's like half canvased suit jacket but all the way down.

This jacket is not mine, just shows the open bottom back lining. In the case of lining shrinkage, it won't pull on the leather shell or give wierd back creases. Very cool and genius way of dealing with a simple everyday problem.

 

[mendelboaz]

I have not experienced any shrinking or stretching overall. However, due to the use of wrong hangers some of my jackets are misformed a bit in the shoulders. The jacket stretched a bit around the curves of the hanger, which gave the leather bumps in that area. So I, for one, hope jacket shrinkage is a thing that might alleviate this issue.