The Palomar

[Michaelson]

Does the Palomar hotel/nightclub still exist in L.A.? I have a 1935 Benny Goodman recording made from the Palomar hotel when they were broadcasting live band music during their regular show, and was wondering if it still existed. Regards. Michaelson

 

[Sergei]

Unfortunately burned down in '39.

This is a cool web site that shows the details:
http://www.100megspopup.com/ark/PalomarBlrm.html

 

[Michaelson]

Thanks, Walt. Man, I hate that, but now it makes me interested in the date of the recording, as I only noticed it as being 1935. It could have been Goodmans opening August date. Interesting, as from what the site states, that was the opening salvo of the Big Band era. How about that!? Regards. Michaelson
p.s. Being an old bass player myself, I salute my fellow bassist for going BACK into the fire to save his instrument, even if it's coming 65 years or so to late. I'm not so sure his choice of running across the street to the gas station to put out his flaming instrument may have been a good choice. Just the mental image of a gas station attendent seeing a man running toward him with a flaming string bass is not a comforting one.

 

[Sergei]

Here's the satellite view of Vermont Avenue & 3rd Street.
http://www.terraserver.microsoft.co...151227&Alat=34.07699539&w=1&opt=0&ref=A|90004

Vermont is the street that goes up and down (N/S) on the right of the picture. 3rd Street is the largest street that goes E/W. Do you Los Angelinos know what's there now?

-Sergei

 

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Michaelson
.. I salute my fellow bassist for going BACK into the fire to save his instrument, even if it's coming 65 years or so to late. I'm not so sure his choice of running across the street to the gas station to put out his flaming instrument may have been a good choice. Just the mental image of a gas station attendent seeing a man running toward him with a flaming string bass is not a comforting one.

Yeah, but wasn't the bass player the one that started the fire? I thought I read somewhere he placed his handkerchief on top of a high voltage lamp. :-(

Here's another site:
http://satinballroom.com/features/palomar2.html
http://www.rhythmsociety.net/iajrc/palomar.htm

 

[Michaelson]

I didn't spot that in the first read through, as the first link gave his version, and he didn't notice the fire until he was accross the street on break and saw people running out of the club. He ran BACK to the club, and saw the band stand in flames. He grabbed his bass, a trumpet, and something else, then ran BACK across the street to the gas station to put out the fire on his base at the water hose. I missed how it started. Regards. Michaelson

 

[BD Jones]

Originally posted by Michaelson
He ran BACK to the club, and saw the band stand in flames. He grabbed his bass, a trumpet, and something else, then ran BACK across the street to the gas station to put out the fire on his base at the water hose.

Well, as my orchestra director used to say "The lower the instrument, the lower the intelligence." As bassists, Michaelson, I think we can both agree to that (at least sometimes). My favorite part of the story is that after he put his bass out, he went back to the parking lot and played some more. I think I would have done the same thing. After all, a good musician always finishes his gig.

Hey Michaelson, do you still play bass? Did you play double or electric? I haven't picked up mine in quite sometime.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Interesting story. I play the bass fiddle in bluegrass and western swing. It's a 1923 King standard. It's neat to find out that I'm not the only wood slapper around.

 

[Michaelson]

I played both....my upright was an American Standard, and my electric an hollow body Eipitone (now I'm told it's a collectors item. I really wanted a solid body Fender....NOW they tell me! ) I haven't played for quite a while, but was in a big band for several years, and played progressive jazz with the electric when my arm was twisted by our director. Never really liked it myself, as I loved the physicality of having to 'make' the upright talk.....frustration with the instrument on humid days when all it would do was 'thump', and the dry days and complete thrill when you could make it 'ring'. WIth an electric, all you do is turn up the volume. I go back to the days when all you could buy were catgut strings, and dreamed of a set of steel. NOW try and buy catgut! Wow! Ah yes, give me a 12 bar blues score anyday......when my fingers were hard, but loose, and the band was running like a well tuned machine. Those were the days.....Regards. Michaelson

 

[Nathan Flowers]

I play with half nylon, and half steel. G and D are nylon, A and E are steel. I would love to have some gut strings, but nylon is the best approximation I can get readily.

 

[BD Jones]

I too played both. My upright (which I used for orchestra and REAL jazz playing) was an 1885 Schiller. It had a beautiful tone and was the easiest upright I've ever played. It spoke clearly in every register and had great sustaining power. I sold it to help play for college (boy, was I stupid). I've owned three electrics in my life, but now am down to one. My first bass was an off brand (Ventura) but it was a solid one-piece ash body. I did a bunch of modifications on it (like taking the frets off, adding lead weights to the peg head and back off the body, etc) and even though it looked horrible, it sounded great. My second bass was a 1960 Fender Jazz bass. This was an excellent bass. Heck, it probably one of the best basses ever made. Those two go sold along the way. My third bass is a 1988 Fender Precision Lite. It is a two piece adler that has a great sound for being a lighter bass. If I had to do it all again I would have kept the upright. You can play just about every style of music on it (even rock if you are Sting) and it is a whole lot more fun. Plus, with the scroll, you always have a place to hang you hat.

As for the strings, I know what you mean about the gut. When I played upright, I played on hybrid strings, which were gut with a steel core on the E and A and all gut on the D and G. Now even those are hard to find.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Now to completely derail the topic, how smooth is the transition from using an upright to an electric? I have always thought about getting a Fender precision to play around with, but just haven't jumped on it yet.

I play by ear, btw. I can't read music a lick (unfortunately).

I'll try to grab a few pics of my upright sometime this week and put them up in a post since it is an instrument from the "golden era"

 

[BD Jones]

I found the transition from upright to electric quite easy. The only difference to me is the action (or the distance from the sting to the neck and amount of pressure needed to press the string down). Usually the electric requires less pressure since the strings are closer the neck (lower action). Depending on your upright, the hand positions (where you put your hand to play each note) might be slightly different. However, since the electric has frets to determine where each note is, usually this is not a problem, or very noticeable. The other thing that does bother some people is the difference in the neck width. The neck width on the electric will be much smaller than on the upright. Now this doesn't pose much of a problem when going from upright to electric. In fact, the upright experience (in my opinion) actually helps get the correct hand position on the electric. However, if you play the electric long enough, without playing the upright, you might find it a little bit of a strain when you do go back. I never suffered any of these problems nor did I notice any difficulty in the transition. Some people I know do. Think it depends on your playing style and how much you practice going back and forth between the two.

I highly recommend the Fender Precision. Just make sure you get an American made Fender. Stay away from the Japanese or Mexican made basses. The American made basses cost a little more, but it is worth it.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I'm going to look further into getting one, but there's NO WAY I'm giving up my King. One of the guys from Gruhn Guitars in Nashville offered me $2500 for it a couple of years ago, but I just kept on walking. I'm going to keep it till my fingers fall off.

An electric would be really nice for when I am tired of standing, or want something smaller to lug around.

 

[farnham54]

I played electric bass for a year or two in both a Concert and a Jazz band, but never stuck with it and used the school's Ibanez, i believe. Not impressed, personally.

Then I graduated to electric guitar, starting with a Fender Strat rip off made by Hondo--oddly enough a VERY nice little guitar. My pop has an Epiphone hollow-body, not sure on the model but I will look it up. I then aquired my own Epiphone version of the Gibson SG, which is basically the same thing (since Gibson owns Epiphone). My most recent aquisition was a JB Player acoustic--GREAT tone.

But, the Epiphone hollow body is amazing--definatley a guitar of the Golden Era, in my opinion. Very much like the one used by Brian Selter, the neo-swing artist. Neat guitar to play.

We aught to all have a summit and have a Fedora Loung/COW Jam session!

regards,

Craig

 

[Michaelson]

Yep, but I'm not personally aware of any good jazz pieces ever written for 4 or 5 bass players. (grins) The hollow body electric is from the 'Golden Era'?! Man, you sure made ME feel old. As to switching from upright to electri? Easy. Just think turning your upright sideways, lesson the finger spread for half to full position, and for the REALLY easier situation, you'll find most electrics are fretted, so you don't even HAVE to remember positions. Yep....I was not an electric fan....Uh, of course we're talking music here, and not small appliances..... Regards. Michaelson

 

[farnham54]

I suppose I should clarify before looking like a comlpete Dunce--Perhaps the hollow body electric guitar is NOT from the Golden Era (likley not, if the timeline I have in my head is correct).

Here is why, for whatever reason, I think of Hollow Body=Golden Era:

That guitar is MUCH like my fathers in style with several notable differences. However, for an 18 year old Green like myself, Setzer's type of swing is really my only hands on exposure to the days of old; In fact, it was Setzer's song "Rock This Town" that really got me turned on to Swing, and ultimatley, the Golden Era.

so that, in a long winded way, is the reason for my likening the Hollow Body Electric to the Golden Era. Sorry if I made you feel old Michaelson! I'll leave you with some age-related quotes:

It's not the years, it's the mileage.

80 years of life is not worth one day of actually living.

And lastly, You are only as old as you feel.

Regards,

The Youngin

 

[havershaw]

I'm a drummer and pianist originally, but owning a recording studio, you learn a lot about instruments and this is what I learned about Fender basses:

The Japanese basses are OK in terms of wood and the presicion of their construction. What's terrible are all of the electronics. A friend of mine and one of the best guitar players I know (both in terms of ability to play and ability to get wonderful tones) said a good, budget way to go would be to buy a Japanese Fender, then replace all of the wiring, pots, and pickups...and the nut. Once you've done that, the bass may be better than a US bass because the Japanese basses are made to a higher standard, just with inferior electronics (which is why Jap gtrs have such a higher tendency to feed back).

Anyway, so that might be an option for you too, Zohar...but I could be totally wrong, as I'm just passing on others' information.

 

[Michaelson]

Like you, Havershaw, I started out on the keyboard, and bass was added to the mix by my 6th grade in school. Had to pick up clarinet for marching band, though, as I could NOT get the director to go along with my idea of added a caster to the tailpin of my American Standard. (grins) I guess the reason I like the old uprights is because if YOU didn't make the effort, the old fiddle would not perform, so you HAD to 'play' the music, and work hard for the results. You really didn't have to do that with an electric (though, this is NOT a put down of folks who are electric bass players. Bear in mind, I also prefer to drive an old car with standard shift "3 on the tree" pattern too, so it's just a matter of personal taste! ) Unlike you, Havershaw, I never did pay much attention to the differences IN the makers or types, with the exception of a hollow body vs. a solid body, so you're way ahead of me on that observation! High regards. Michaelson
p.s. Oh, farn old buddy, I was just 'funning' you on the making me feel old. I AM a LITTLE old, but don't quite creak yet. (Don't ask Coffeedude that, though. He'd lie about me. )

 

[BD Jones]

In my experience, the USA Fenders differ in the quality of the wood. They use a much higher quality of wood with better grains, less knots (and irregularities), and made of one or two-piece bodies. The last two have a big affect on the tone. In general, you want a body with as few knots and made of as few pieces as possible. The knots are usually not very big (sometimes the largest is the diameter of a pencil) but any knot in the wood stops vibrations from traveling fully thought the wood, thus lowering the sustaining qualities and giving a less clear attack. The same is true for bodies made from two or more glued together pieces. The same holds true for the necks (in regards to the knots). While the specs are usually close between the Japan and USA, and you can certainly change the electronics, in the long run the USA bass will be a better investment. Of course, main factors in choosing a Fender bass are going to be your ears and you pocket book. Pick what sounds best to you and what you can afford (a USA in much more expensive than a Japan).