The Occult, are you a believer?

[Viola]

The action being receiving them with peace: the faith doesn't matter without righteous action, if she had just stood silent and done nothing she would not have been saved anymore than the children of Israel would have been taken out of Egypt if they had not marked their doorposts.

It's just a matter of perspective, I guess. I was always taught works were more important than faith. It is Jewish belief that righteous Gentiles have their portion in Heaven.

 

[Foofoogal]

it takes a little while for me to try to understand your terminology.

well stephen1965. We are even as I find it hard to understand half of what anyone is talking about on this thread. lol

 

[HungaryTom]

I don't think that I am saved as a Christian nor that I am perfect.
I believe that all religions that are founded from the eternal tradition exist with good reasons.
Also there should be no hierarchies put as to which religion is better or worse.
But I can not make an equation between Ouija boards, fortune tellers, astrologuers, magicians and Religions.
Religious teachings are often contradicted by the own religious followers when they make wars refering to their respective Holy Books. This goes not only for Christians and the wars in the Middle East but also 'peaceful' religions/traditions as Hinduism when they dismantle mosques in India or the wars fought by Buddhists of South East Asia.

 

[Jerekson]

Just finished reading the thread...wow, what a discussion! Easily one of the most compelling I've seen on this board - a "legendary thread" for sure!

Personally I find the Occult to be quite fascinating, interesting, and real. But I'm not a practicioner, and I don't fear it (I have the Lord on my side).

I wouldn't be against reading some history, just for a new branch of knowledge.

 

[Raging Hat On]

Yes, of course, I am a believer. That being said, I don't offhandedly believe anything and everything is proof of the supernatural.

Photographic anomalies, such as orbs, do not necessarily constitute proof of spirits or ghosts, and poltergiest activity could just as easily be attributed to the observer as to the observed.

Most importantly, above all else, the IGHS sucks! What a bunch of charlatans!

 

[stephen1965]

Ok, so IMO we heard some fairly compelling things about why people have Faith as part of their practice. It seems to me that it's central to a certain 'path' and I can see how that would be. I still feel that outside of a 'system', if you like, that belief doesn't really make any sense. What I mean is that, if you don't have evidence of a 'path' or a system in which Faith or belief is an intrinsic part of the whole, what might compel one to 'believe' anything. I see it in that case as unjustified/improbable superstition. I go back (sorry to be repetitive) to the idea of esoteric Schools and the need for a whole sytem or language or call it what you will. Otherwise how do see the wood for the trees? You could place 'trust' in a teacher but you couldn't know where you were being led...unless you knew that what you were doing was a part of a complete system which you understood (at least to some extent).
To me, there has to be and is a 'way' which exists in everyday life... in it but not of it, so to speak, which is only discreetly advertised for it requires someone to be searching for it. It is only hidden as people don't search. It's not Chritianity or any of the other major religions nor is it occult, if we see this as superstitition. Yet it has 'always' existed and IMO has knowledge of the esoteric part of every religion. The esoteric must always be the same when you think about it..if it is 'truth' or the spirit or whatever you'd like to call it. The only differences could be the exoteric (the outer practice) leading to this inner circle (of truth).

 

[Viola]

Most I think would say these were political in nature that happened to also fall along the divided lined of denominations.

All wars are political in nature? I'm not sure how you're distinguishing a "religious war" from a "war that is implacably divided along religious lines"? How is that different from the Crusades, etc.?

 

[John in Covina]

It's just a matter of perspective, I guess. I was always taught works were more important than faith.

From they view I was taught it's the faith that gets the greater importance as it preceeds the action and the action would not have happened without it. (In most cases.)

 

[Viola]

I think that possibly faith vs. works and ranking the importance thereof is one of the places Christianity and Judaism diverge sharply.

 

[John in Covina]

All wars are political in nature? I'm not sure how you're distinguishing a "religious war" from a "war that is implacably divided along religious lines"? How is that different from the Crusades, etc.?

I think that the Crusades were different because they were converting by the sword. (While it still happens, it tends to be conversion from Christianity to something else today such as in Somalia.)

Also back then the Church was political, however in most countries today in the West the Church is not strong enough politically to direct wars on it's behalf. So, today most people look at war and the politics involves as what is happening to my country first where as in the Crusades era it was Church then country. The same doesn't hold true as much as we come closer to modern times and more recent wars.

 

[John in Covina]

I think that possibly faith vs. works and ranking the importance thereof is one of the places Christianity and Judaism diverge sharply.

Also there are many in Judaism that do not believe in an afterlife at all, let alone Heaven or Hell.

 

[Viola]

I think that the Crusades were different because they were converting by the sword. (While it still happens, it tends to be conversion from Christianity to something else today such as in Somalia.)

Also back then the Church was political, however in most countries today in the West the Church is not strong enough politically to direct wars on it's behalf. So, today most people look at war and the politics involves as what is happening to my country first where as in the Crusades era it was Church then country. The same doesn't hold true as much as we come closer to modern times and more recent wars.

The Crusades did ethnic cleansing as much as they did conversion by the sword... just like the Balkans.

I don't think you need a centralized religious authority in order to have a religious war? And in both cases I mentioned (Northern Ireland and the Balkans) I'm not sure how you can say it was country first and then religion as these were both civil wars? [huh]

 

[Viola]

Also there are many in Judaism that do not believe in an afterlife at all, let alone Heaven or Hell.

Many in Judaism differ on belief in Heaven or concepts about it, but Hell is not a Jewish belief at all.

 

[John in Covina]

The Crusades did ethnic cleansing as much as they did conversion by the sword... just like the Balkans.

I don't think you need a centralized religious authority in order to have a religious war? And in both cases I mentioned (Northern Ireland and the Balkans) I'm not sure how you can say it was country first and then religion as these were both civil wars? [huh]

**********
Name all of the church officials that were directing the actions of the fighters in Northern Ireland. The difference is that the denominations involved clearly decried the use of violence.

Name the religeous officials that were directing the actions of the fighters in the Balkans.

 

[Viola]

So you are claiming that no matter the major plank religion might serve in strife/warfare, without church officials literally directing the fighting action by action, it is not a religious war?

Then there is not much religious war in the Middle East.

 

[Creeping Past]

What about the occult?

 

[Viola]

Good point, Creeping Past.

Does wearing a religious item of jewelry, like a necklace pendant, count as occult because some people think of them as a sign of protection?

 

[John in Covina]

So you are claiming that no matter the major plank religion might serve in strife/warfare, without church officials literally directing the fighting action by action, it is not a religious war?

Then there is not much religious war in the Middle East.

Is the problems between the Israelis and the Palestinians religious or political?

Israel is a secular society. It is not religious from their side.

Is the problems with Iraq and Iran religious?

The US is a secular society. The religious aspects are not an aim from our side.

What side of these has the religious community actively directing the actions of the fighters?

For them it's religion for Western nations its political.


Don't you believe it's blood for oil?

 

[Foofoogal]

I think that possibly faith vs. works and ranking the importance thereof is one of the places Christianity and Judaism diverge sharply.

not necessarily true Viola.

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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2:14-26;&version=50;

If you have faith you will desire to do works. Goes hand in hand.

To me it is like restaurants.
You will never get the same dish at all Italian restaurants. Same with same religions. All have differences in many ways.
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Christianity though yes is based on belief in Jesus and his spotless blood. It is the only way for all Christians.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

You will never get the same dish at all Italian restaurants.

I get the same linguine with clam sauce every time. What do you mean? [huh]