The Occult, are you a believer?

[Fedord Spaniard]

Im sure everyone has heard of the Occult atleast one time in thier life. Occultic / New Age practices and other Supernatural related topics such as Astrology, Vodou, Santeria, Voodo, Wicca, Alchemy, Ghosts, Angels, Demons, the Ouija, etc.

Here are a few historical occultists....

Helena von Hahn AKA Madam Blavatsky

Edward Alexander Crowley AKA Aleister Crowley

Marie Laveau

Giuseppe Balsamo AKA Count Alessandro di Cagliostro





Heres a few more Occultists to lighten the mood....lol

Kent Nelson AKA Dr.Fate

Stephen Strange AKA Dr. Strange

Dekan Drache AKA Felix Faust (This guy has always reminded me of Crowley)



So what do you know or have heard of the Occult? Do you believe its real or just in the mind of the believer? Also do you believe it to be good or evil?

 

[avedwards]

I only really formed an opinion on this after watching films dealing with it. The one which had the greatest effect on me was the Basil Rathbone-Sherlock Holmes film "The Scarlet Claw" in which Holmes manages to disprove the existance of the ghost by his use of logic. Since then I have always held the arguably narrowminded belief that there is a logical explanation for every supernatural occurance.

I am boring I guess, but as far as I'm concerned there are no such things as ghosts or supernatural occurances.

 

[HungaryTom]

?

Never heard of it[huh]

 

[SpitfireXIV]

You don't have to go any further than the Bible to see that historically there were magicians, soothsayers, fortune tellers. There were also prophets, for the other side.

So, yes, I believe there is something behind all of that, but I don't practice any of it.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

I only really formed an opinion on this after watching films dealing with it. The one which had the greatest effect on me was the Basil Rathbone-Sherlock Holmes film "The Scarlet Claw" in which Holmes manages to disprove the existance of the ghost by his use of logic. Since then I have always held the arguably narrowminded belief that there is a logical explanation for every supernatural occurance.

I am boring I guess, but as far as I'm concerned there are no such things as ghosts or supernatural occurances.

No man, youre not boring.. youre entitled to your own opinion about the Occult and thats what i want in this thread.

Never heard of it[huh]

lol Yea, me either...

You don't have to go any further than the Bible to see that historically there were magicians, soothsayers, fortune tellers. There were also prophets, for the other side.

So, yes, I believe there is something behind all of that, but I don't practice any of it.

Thats very true, there were Occultists in the Bible, like the Witch of Endor. I have never practiced it or even tried it, but I believe the Occult to be very real due to personal experiences.

 

[HungaryTom]

The ghosts I called I can't get rid of now - Goethe

I have never practiced it or even tried it, but I believe the Occult to be very real due to personal experiences.

The reason why I stay away...

 

["Skeet" McD]

Well...as a believing Christian (hey: we're talking about a bunch of people who believe someone got up out of the grave here.... ) and a Catholic at that (with an elaborate set of non-Scriptural miracles and a process to decide what is, and what isn't one)...it's sort of impossible NOT to believe in the supernatural. But perhaps this can be construed as different from the occult.

I do believe that there is "more in Heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio"...but what is actually going on (vis-a-vis us tapping into occult powers, or occult powers tapping into us)...that's a good question with no obviously provable answer.

There is much that may seem to be supernatural that actually isn't...I forget which SciFi author famously said that any technology (read, for our purposes "phenomenon" sufficiently advanced (similarly, read "not understood") will read as magic. My own faith, as I mentioned, has elaborate processes for attempting to weed out the non-supernatural stuff before pronouncing something supernatural. Most strange occurances probably fall under this rubric, I think. But. Then....there are those others...

I have been near supernatural phenomenon once (poltergeist); I was there: I can't see another explanation--but that doesn't mean I'm correct.

I have spent many, many dark nights lying on ground where thousands died, dressed just like them...and very interested in their lives. Never saw (or felt) a thing.

But I know a couple of people whose veracity and sanity I have every reason to believe in...and they have (ghostly apparitions; strange, indescribable time/space/perception stuff, non-drug related). I'm prepared to believe them.

I worked for a decade in a laboratory devoted to eye research. I had long talks with many very famous scientists who had devoted their entire decades-long careers to one cell--in one organ--of the human body. What we can know--and SEE--is unbelievable: you can't imagine. But, every--and I mean EVERY--lecture contained the phrase: "this is what we think is going on." At the end of the day....nobody really knows how we see. Or do much else, really. If we can't (yet) understand and describe the physical world we inhabit and can appreciate with our 5 senses....it would be a rash individual, I think, who would pass out-of-hand judgement on what we CAN'T see.

Only my own thoughts; not asking anyone to believe them, and not interested in arguing. But plenty interested in hearing what others think, and discussing it....

"Skeet"
PS: FS....you do have a talent for starting threads on...."interesting" subjects....

 

[avedwards]

No man, youre not boring.. youre entitled to your own opinion about the Occult and thats what i want in this thread.

That's good. I just didn't want it to look as though my opinion comes from watching a Sherlock Holmes film, as it is also based on a lot of thinking I have done, since I do find this topic fascinating, even if I don't believe any of it.

But if the Bible classes as supernatural, then yes I do believe in the it, as I am a Christian. However, I think that all the supernatural things in it are not to be taken literally, rather I personally believe that in reality things like angels were actually people in a certain place at a certain time who happened to say things which had an influence on other people.

fftopic: but I think that religion cannot be proven or disproven, so it is therefore not right to try and convert people, which is why I rarely talk about religion, except on threads like these where it is relevant (I think?).

As for conventional ghosts, I don't believe in them as I mentioned earlier, which is why I orinially answered no to the question, but now had to revise my answer as I realised that the Bible came in.

 

[Lefty]

Here's a diagram of how things have always been, and will always be, because we will never know everything:

what we know I(a wall we can't see over)I spirits

The wall keeps getting pushed to the right, but there always seem to be some spirits to credit or blame for the things we don't know. Just think, the germ theory of disease isn't even two hundred years old. Prior to that, sickness was spirits.

 

[Viola]

I am religious and I believe in an interventionist deity, and in miracles, angels, etc. which are supernatural.

That doesn't mean I believe everybody who walks by with a star chart or a ouija board. As far as actual occult sort of activity (interacting with the dead, workable fortune telling that isn't fifty percent generalizing and fifty percent psychology-of-client, psychic abilities in general) I guess you could file me under occult-agnostic? [huh]

 

[Tiller]

I believe man learns about the world by two ways. Logic (reason if you will), and tradition (information conserved for us, and past down through the ages. Which is the collective reasoning of individuals and societies of the past). So I don't believe in ghost, fortune tellers, mystics, "magic", fortune cookies, druids, shaman, witches, wizards, hoodoo or voodoo. I don't see any solid proof for believing in these things, and I don't see any logical reason to.

I do believe in God though. Perhaps it hypocritical, but I think a famous old quote works best for me with regards to that. I find it easier to believe in God than to believe that Hamlet was deduced from the molecular structure of a mutton chop.

 

[stephen1965]

Really interesting thread! As for me, I try not to believe in anything and the idea of faith does not enter into the 'way' by which I try to live. As for the occult, it depends what you really mean but IMO there is a hidden side to life which we sometimes glimpse, the knowledge of which could be called 'occult knowledge'.

 

[blacklagoon]

I have always loved the idea of the occult,witchcraft sabbaths etc,ever since seeing all the pictures in books in my local library.most of my favourite films are occultist,like the devil rides out by dennis wheatley.There are/were two british horror film actors who specialized in the occult.They read studied and collected books and items for years.One of the actors was called Mike Raven,who starred in the crucible of terror and i monster.He was a serious occult specialist and authoritory on the subject.The other actor,is called Christopher Lee,who not only has one of the biggest occult book libraries,but is also a recognized authoritory on the subject,even more so than Mike Raven was.Christopher Lee was a very good friend of dennis wheatley.

 

[Tomasso]

Occultic / New Age practices and other Supernatural related topics such as astrology, Voodo, santeria, Wicca, Alchemy, Ghosts, Angels, Demons, the Ouija, etc.

How could you leave out Kabbalah? :eusa_doh:

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Yes definitely.

I know there are other dimensions in space/time because I have had several spiritual experiences in my life that have convinced me that there is much more to life than we perceive with our 5 physical senses. I have had a few prophetic dreams for instance. It's a fascinating subject, but also loaded because of the crackpot factor. Unfortunately there are a lot of frauds out there that play on people's beliefs. Also it approaches the realm of "religion", so can be a tricky topic of discussion,...so I will say no more.

 

[stephen1965]

...so I will say no more.

Please tell of your experiences if you feel able. It's very interesting that you link the idea of dimensions (in space/time) with spiritual experiences.

 

[Viola]

How could you leave out Kabbalah? :eusa_doh:

Because, frankly, post-Madonna and Britney Spears, Kabbalah has suffered enough. Like Garbo, it vants to be alone.

 

["Skeet" McD]

I know there are other dimensions in space/time because I have had several spiritual experiences in my life that have convinced me that there is much more to life than we perceive with our 5 physical senses. I have had a few prophetic dreams for instance. It's a fascinating subject, but also loaded because of the crackpot factor. Unfortunately there are a lot of frauds out there that play on people's beliefs. Also it approaches the realm of "religion", so can be a tricky topic of discussion,...so I will say no more.

Coming on an entirely different tack from Stephen1965 (in other words, faith plays a large part in my worldview; both ways of looking at life can have a good case made for them, so I only mention it to say "I think this is very broadly interesting")....I too would urge you, if you feel able, to tell us a bit. No compulsion, of course. Some things are, and should remain, personal. But, if you're "ONLY" worried about getting someone riled up...well, it is almost certain to happen. But there will be quite a number of us, I think, who will be very grateful to you and interested in what you have to say--should you care to say it.

One thing that I find VERY interesting (as someone who doesn't think that scientific knowledge and faith are, or should be, incompatible: to me they are just different things by definition. Science is charged to describe the world able to be perceived empirically. Religion STARTS where that ends: such an eminent (to Christians, at least) authority as St. Paul makes the very distinction. Faith is, by definition, saying "I believe this to be true, because I feel deeply that it is true..although I can't prove it." Good, bad, or indifferent: those are the definitions of these two approaches to life. They don't, and can't, overlap.

Anyway. They can often throw surprising light on each other. A hundred years ago, it was very easy for skeptics to laugh at the whole concept of an invisible world inhabited by souls and other spiritual beings: the only thing going for it was....a lot of traditions in a lot of places over all of human history. But you had to take it...on faith alone.

Along comes quantum theory and quite hard-science theories that begin to posit different dimensions, levels of energy, time and space distortions...and a host of other things that make the possibility of those spiritual realms...rather more likely--whether you buy into the religious explanation of them or not.

Maj. Danger: if you've been to any of 'em, I for one would like to hear about your trip.

Respectfully,
"Skeet"

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Please tell of your experiences if you feel able. It's very interesting that you link the idea of dimensions (in space/time) with spiritual experiences.

Well alright, at the risk of of being called a crackpot or insane, (I really don't care ) I will relate one experience. Well, two closely related experiences rather, which convinced me of the fact that there are multiple dimensions, a spiritual realm if you will, and most likely multiple entities that inhabit those dimensions.
This happened when I was about 13 years old, and I had just become very interested in the spiritual. We, (my parents, an aunt, and my sister) went to a local mall to see Walt Disney's "Fantasia" which I had never seen. We went in my sister's sporty '64 Chevy Impala convertible.
About halfway through the movie, there is a portion in which the screen is just abstract animated colors and classical music is playing in the background. Anyone who has seen the film will maybe know what I mean.
At this point, my mind just sort of went blank for a second. I was just looking at the screen.
I suddenly found myself, ( my consciousness, or my mind, or what we commonly call our spirit) standing out side the theater in he parking lot about 25 feet away from my sister's car. I could hear the sounds in the distance, feel the air around me, the pavement under my feet, everything I would normally perceive with my physical senses. There was a man by my sister's car breaking into it with a coat hanger. Quite easy to do back then.
I immediately realized,..:"Hey, that guy is stealing my sister's car!"
Just after that thought occurred to me, I found myself again sitting in my seat as before in the theater. Needless to say, I was dumbfounded! I looked over at my sister, and thought to say something, but thought better of it because I knew she would not believe me. So I passed it off as simply a daydream, or my imagination or something, and sat through the last hour of the movie.
The whole experience only took I think between 5 to 10 seconds. Not nearly long enough for anyone that I was with to notice anything at all.
So we leave the theater after the movie, go out to the parking lot, and sure enough, her car was gone! Just as I had seen it as it was happening. They recovered it several months later, and the description of the guy they arrested, matched the guy I had seen as he was breaking into the car.
Needless to say, this experience gave me a great deal of faith. At the time, I was seeking answer's to life's questions I guess you could say, so I was given an amazing answer to my curiosity. This happened shortly after my first experience, in which I attempted what is commonly known as astral projection. The actual willing of our consciousness to detach from our physical body. This I can attest is also a real phenomenon, as I almost achieved it. I followed the directions given in a book on metaphysics a friend's father had loaned to him. All that was supposed to happen to me as i attempted this, did in fact happen. I felt myself literally floating upward, and I heard the so-called astral sounds of that place. But before I could fully attain it, I was strongly rebuked by a voice. I did not hear or understand the words, but the tone was sharp and agitated. It was the voice of an older woman. A warning meant to put me back in my physical body, which then happened, as we are really not supposed to delve into this unseen realm unprotected or unbidden. There are a lot of entities in this dimension, that do not mean us well. As was said before in this thread, The Bible does have all the information we need to know, and meddling in these areas is strongly discouraged, and for our own good.
So I believe my experience at the theater was meant to satisfy my curiosity, and teach me not to try anything like that again on my own. These things are after all in the realm of God, so if He wills it, then I believe we are given glimpses if we need them.

 

[JennyLou]

I can't say that I am a believer in the occult or not because I don't think I know enough or have experienced enough to form an opinion. All i really know about it is what is on the TV and I don't always trust the entertainment industry to provide correct information. I know some people whom I trust that have have experiences. Sometimes I think that it must be real because so many people have had similar experiences so how can it all be made up?