The Occult, are you a believer?

[HoosierDaddy]

Could be that becoming "awakened" is actually quite contrary to self....ego or normal humanistic desire to save one's self. Rather than "earning"...."deeds"...retries for perfection or a ladder of progressive self knowledge...perhaps the "key" is getting away from self. Beyond self. In spite of self. Maybe Truth is always there...not to be proven...but only realized at any time. Easy to continually be overlooked or unacceptable simply because of self ego propagating such difficulty. When the veil is lifted the disguise may be suddenly exposed. Call it "enlightenment'..."Spiritual Awakening"...or whatever you will. The solution may have seemed so obscure and causing great struggle only because of ourselves.
HD

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

...because there can be only one Highlander

Not one Highlander..but one "Immortal" left in "the Game" to win "the Prize". Just make sure its not done on holy ground tho..

 

[MattJH]

I'm of the belief that most, if not all, supernatural experiences are due to fantasy-prone people; we all know the types that attribute odd experiences to the paranormal before just looking to see if it was just the cat, you know?

 

[HadleyH]

May be occult (or supernatural,or paranormal ...) for the time being, but certainly not forever.


"There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered that will remain undisclosed."

 

[HoosierDaddy]

May be occult (or supernatural,or paranormal ...) for the time being, but certainly not forever.


"There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered that will remain undisclosed."

So true..so true...

Mathew..Luke...and Mark

 

[Carlisle Blues]

May be occult (or supernatural,or paranormal ...) for the time being, but certainly not forever.


"There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered that will remain undisclosed."

Gospel of Thomas 6:3-4 "Do not lie, and do not do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. For there is nothing that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered that will remain undisclosed"

Thank you very much HadleyH

Pretty interesting.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Luke Chapter 12 Verse 2
For there is nothing covered,that shall not be revealed;neither hid,that shall not be known.

Mathew chapter 10 verse 26...
Fear them not therefore:for there is nothing covered,that shall not be revealed;and hid,that shall not be known.

Mark chapter 4 verse 22....
For there is nothing hid,which shall not be manifested;neither was anything kept secret,but that it should come abroad.

 

[HadleyH]

I am of the opinion that in due course, all that is considered occult or mysterious ,will be known, things that were thought impossible to be done by man, will be everyday ocurrance! Who knows how far the human mind will reach a million years from today?

For an awakened humanity,the sky is the limit!

It's all so very interesting, I love philosophy

 

[Lotta Little]

I love philosophy as well. However, I always thought that particular verse meant that nothing will be hidden from God, not Man. I do believe that as we progress, we may get more pieces of the puzzle, although the big picture is God's alone.

 

[Story]

"There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered that will remain undisclosed."

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die." - Abdul Alhazred

 

[Creeping Past]

Beyond self.

That's what the Buddha taught. Awareness and experience of the multiplicity of selfhood or selves, and even positions beyond self, is a major element of attaining enlightenment, in Buddhist scripture, for example, and in occult philosophies.

In religious practice, as opposed to enlightenment, including Christianity and certain strands of occultist thinking, there's a constant tension between those people who wish to identify strongly with the divine and those for whom that's a barrier to self-knowledge.

 

[stephen1965]

Awareness and experience of the multiplicity of selfhood or selves, and even positions beyond self, is a major element of attaining enlightenment, in Buddhist scripture, for example, and in occult philosophies.

Sounds much like many of the 'ways' I've read about and very much like the 'Fourth Way', of which I have some practical experience, where the idea is to be aware/awake of many selves each calling themselves 'I', but with the general aim of having a permanent 'I' which is the master or captain of the ship so to speak. IMO this is nothing to do with belief and when you think about it, belief could be counter to 'seeing' the many different selves as they already each tend to believe that they are 'I' or 'Self'. Perhaps it's got something to do with going against 'self-will' and is somehow similar to giving oneself up to 'God's Will'... at first. Lets's say, for instance, that 'enlightenment' is the ultimate possibility of man...then awareness of what one is is going to have to be a basic tenet. But IMO there are something like two 'governing' powers, that which is often called 'God' which is something like the 'Absolute' or 'All Possibility' which affects us only in the sense of a general evolutionary trend, or devolutionary trend perhaps. Then there is the so called 'fast track' or esoteric path/circle which could be said to be attempting to escape from the general trend if it is 'downwards'. It escapes by understanding that there is a 'secret', though the secret is in plain daylight so to speak. The secret has been called by other names and could perhaps be thought of as a god also. I like to think of it as a 'side octave' leading to the Sun but that is technical jargon used in a particular system. My point is, that there are a lot of posts which use terms like 'belief' (or 'faith'). But is this idea of 'belief' being used as a general idea or as belonging to the technique of a particular system??

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I am of the opinion that in due course, all that is considered occult or mysterious ,will be known, things that were thought impossible to be done by man, will be everyday ocurrance! Who knows how far the human mind will reach a million years from today?

For an awakened humanity,the sky is the limit!

It's all so very interesting, I love philosophy

I could not agree more with your position. One of my favorite philosophers is Frederick Hegel. His perspective regarding your statement can be described as follows: Hegel introduced a system for understanding the world itself, often described as a progression in which each successive movement emerges as a solution to the contradictions inherent in the preceding movement.

A more simplistic version is a formula I have adopted in many of my dealings is goes like this: Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis

A. The thesis is an intellectual proposition.
B. The antithesis is simply the negation of the thesis, a reaction to the proposition.
C. The synthesis solves the conflict between the thesis and antithesis by reconciling their common truths, and forming a new proposition.

A simple application would be; Thesis: the sky is blue. The antithesis it is dark because there are clouds The synthesis is: The sky is both blue and dark where there are clouds.

I think this formula speaks to your position as well. It can be applied almost universally. Think of the strides made in science, government and just about any other application.

 

[stephen1965]

I could not agree more with your position.

I disagree. Not that about Hegel but that there can be such a thing as 'awakened humanity'. This is not possible. Only in esoteric schools can one be 'awakened'. And most people don't want to go to school. We could all be a bit more balanced though, but unfortunately, even that seems unlikely when you think about the state of the world.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I disagree. Not that about Hegel but that there can be such a thing as 'awakened humanity'. This is not possible. Only in esoteric schools can one be 'awakened'. And most people don't want to go to school. We could all be a bit more balanced though, but unfortunately, even that seems unlikely when you think about the state of the world.

Stephen1965 you assume a great deal I am not sure what evidence you base your assumptions on.

The people I surround myself with clearly strive to be "awoken" or enlightened. To have an epiphany regarding the issues they are dealing with is the norm. It is based on education. Not only intellectual education, but, education of the heart, mind and soul.

This is where balance and equanimity meet the touchstone of all grown which is challenge. In my world it is impossible to exist without being "awakened".

 

[HungaryTom]

I doubt if there's much we can do to save the world as I think you're right, it keeps us asleep. We are, according to Gurdjieff's cosmology, part of a descending octave which seems to imply things are getting worse (in the sense of deeper sleep). According to G, 'escape' is available as there is a side octave which has as it's 'Do', the Sun. So perhaps there's another link to the analogy of a saviour(Jesus etc) as something Solar...
Could you say more about your ideas on 'eternal cycle of worldly reincarnation?' My interest is in the idea that there are repeated incarnations into the exact same 'life' (eternal recurrence) and that we only get out by becoming 'awake' to ourselves. But it's just a theory, not a belief..[/QUOTE]


Dear Stephen,

I myself don’t have any own position in divinity since I can repeat what I remember from books in spirituality, philosopy, religion. In the beginning all this stuff is "occult" since divinity is so much different in wording from books written on natural science, history or literature.

Divine texts are enigmatic since they come from another era and mostly translated from other languages plus they are written in a way that explanations and comments are also necessary for a better understanding or interpretation. However the core messages are clear at least in the Bible.

What Gurdjieff put as a descending octave is rhymed elsewhere as Kali Yuga and we are living its final phase and with other foretellings at other places. Makes sense since there is always a beinning peak and end to a year, a life, to an era, to empires, etc. However how long such phases continue and when and how they end is not known and will be revealed in due time. They have another clock and calendar.

Gurdjieff is right that following the path of Jesus -selfless love and altruistic help is an escape and it will be always an escape.

Being solar per se is not something good or bad since both Christ and the Antichrist are solar>

http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=9781584200710
However, this general meaning should be distinguished from another, more specialized use of the word, as found in the spiritual science of Anthroposophy, which often uses the word Antichrist to designate the Sun Demon, known as Sorath in the Hebrew tradition, referred to as the “Beast whose number is 666,” and as “the two-horned Beast” in Revelation 13.’

I am not a scholar of anthroposophy but this was just a page where I found the information in English that I read some time ago in my mother tongue.

The ideas of 'eternal cycle of worldly reincarnation?' again aren't mine.

Trying to following the path of Jesus -selfless love and altruistic help is worth a try.

 

[Foofoogal]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (King James Version)

9The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 (King James Version)

18For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.


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Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 (King James Version)

13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
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surely no better philosopher than Solomon.

 

[Foofoogal]

Isaiah 55:9 (King James Version)

9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


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Romans 11:33 (King James Version)

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (King James Version)

9The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
--------------------------------------------------
Ecclesiastes 1:18 (King James Version)

18For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.


surely no better philosopher than Solomon.

The day I stop learning, exploring and discovering will, indeed, be a very good day to die. shakeshead

 

[Viola]

What is the line between religion and the occult? Is someone who believes in angels, religious talismans, etc. an occultist?

I ask because it pertains to me personally.

Many beliefs stem from the beliefs of the faithful, not those who see themselves in some sort of Satanic or anti-religious light. Get back in the name of Jesus, etc.

Is it a matter of where you personally fall, I wonder: if it is my belief, it is religion, if it is yours, it is occult superstition?