The modern cowboy hat

[Richard Warren]

well, all them hats look the same when you buy 'em, but after you wear 'em awhile and they get floated down river and such they look sort of different.

 

[greatestescaper]

I live in the big city of New York and I spend the majority of my time dreaming of far off mountains, deserts, wide plains and long rivers that beckon to me. I realized recently that I have grown quite the collection of hats including derbies, caps, and fedoras. I also have a leather aussie slouch and my new favorite: The Elkton. I purchased it on hatcountry.com recently and its an instant favorite. I get a lot of weird looks and a few comments, but surprisingly most of them are very complementary. I will be posting pics shortly, once they're taken that is.

 

[hatflick1]

Just wanted to post the hat of one Cowboy Poetry Festival regular performer, Ramblin' Jack Elliot.

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq284/clairearmbruster/RamblinJackElliott-current.jpg

You will see the customized shaping and rope hat band.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not counting the hats I played in when I was a kid playing Cowboys & Indians and still have in the attic, I don't have a Western hat, but I'd like to get one or two or three or..., so I've been researching the subject.

An Eastwood fan, I love the hats he wore in his early Western films, and perfect reproductions are available, some in pure beaver, all at a steep price no matter what the fur felt, from several different makers which I now know of thanks to the people here at FL.

However, based on my research, if you really want a "cowboy" hat like most wore in the West in the late 1800s, it would likely have no bash at all--like Hoss' white "ten gallon" on the long-running TV show.

Any crease/bash that would form usually would be by accident due to taking off and putting on the hat or knocking into something, or perhaps intentionally smashed in at the front so it would not blow off so easily. The man would generally punch it back out into its open crown dome to make it "right" again. Only very gradually were these dents left in place for style or maybe just as way to identify whose hat was whose.

The hats of the mounted military were, of course, creased according to specifications--not always followed--and it would be interesting to know what, if any, influence they had on cowpoke's hats.

To my eye, the only thing more "mind-numbingly boring" than the cookie-cutter creases so often seen on modern Westerns is a totally unaltered open-crown dome. But if you seek originality, that's the way to go.

 

[The Sky Ranger]

...
However, based on my research, if you really want a "cowboy" hat like most wore in the West in the late 1800s, it would likely have no bash at all--like Hoss' white "ten gallon" on the long-running TV show.

Any crease/bash that would form usually would be by accident due to taking off and putting on the hat or knocking into something, or perhaps intentionally smashed in at the front so it would not blow off so easily. The man would generally punch it back out into its open crown dome to make it "right" again. ...

I'm not so sure whether this is right.
I've been searching through literally hundreds of photographs - every Cowboy's "Boss of the plains" or other hat was bashed.
But it is true: the Boss of the Plains was not formed in factory. The owner shaped crown und rim according to his personal wishes. Above I have posted two photos, the one with me wearing a duster shows my Boss and the 'Montana Peak' I like to use on it.
The use of unbashed Stetsons may be a result of reenactors not having done enough research - if you just look through old catalogues you see the unformed hats, but as I said, the owner formed his hat.

 

[gtdean48]

...
However, based on my research, if you really want a "cowboy" hat like most wore in the West in the late 1800s, it would likely have no bash at all--like Hoss' white "ten gallon" on the long-running TV show.
...

Having done research for Civil War reenacting, you are correct that most hats came out open crown. The Boss of the Plains of the late 1800s, I don't believe, had as tall of a crown as Hoss on Bonanza. That was a filming trick to make Dan Blocker even more imposing of character.
Movies & TV shows, even those filmed early on with actual cowboys overly exaggerated the hats for the screen. You don't see these type crowns in Remington & Russell paintings of the day or any photos of trail driving cowboys, except in rare occassions of cowboys influenced by Mexican sombreros.

 

[tnitz]

Couple film hats...

I saw one of Dan Blocker's hats in Tuscan a few years back. He was a BIG man! For me, his hat was one of the most iconic I can think of.

Last night I put in Man From Texas with Tom Mix. I still don't know where the crease bearing his name comes from, but anyway. He wore a large silverbelly (I assume) hat, uncreased. I would guess a 6.5-7 inch crown with 5" brim, but he was a very small statured man, so it may have been smaller. Anyway, what was interesting is that his uncreased crown and flat brim were VERY soft, dress felt quality. You can see that as he handles his hat indoors. Looked to be a very nice hat and I've never owned a soft western like that. It kept it's shape well when he put it on his head, too.

I understand movie hats are just that, fairly pristine felt that has been artificially aged, but looked to be a really nice hat, anyway.

 

[Dinerman]

Take a look in the
Pre '40s Stetson Western
and the
Pre '40s (non stetson) Western
threads if you'd like to see just how different cowboy hats were than they used to be.
A lot of variation in the felts used back then too. I have everything from paper thin felt that makes even vintage dress weight look heavy to thick and stiff to long napped velours. Color wasn't as standard as you'd think, either.

 

[Undertow]

Please don't scorn me for what I'm about to say...

But I've always thought modern cowboy hats are just Wide-Brim Open Roads, personally. [huh]

 

[gtdean48]

...But I've always thought modern cowboy hats are just Wide-Brim Open Roads, personally. [huh]

I can see that, especially with low crown versions. For the show ring, I have a tan one & a black one. Both generic, off the shelf, 4x Stetson 4" brim. No way I'm spending any more $$$ for something my own horse is highly likely to tromp on. Same for straws for summer shoes.
I have quite a few other westerns in varying creases for using & Cowboy Mounted Shooting/Single Action Shooting rigs.

 

[donnc]

I don't understand. Stetson Open Road - I don't have one, but its brim is not only narrower, but also bound, right? The crease is somewhat similar to other western creases, but not the same to someone who cares. The ribbon ... OK, that's fairly common, but by no means standard. How about the felt - same? I don't know, don't have one - but isn't it supposed to be more like a thinner dress weight? Well, maybe the sweatband is about the same! I must be missing the point.

 

[gtdean48]

There are plenty of bound edged, cattleman creased western hats out there. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think Undertow was talking about the visual aspects of the crown & crease, not the felt weight. I agree, you're missing the point.

 

[donnc]

The visual aspects of the Open Road crown and crease are not typical, they're eccentric. As are bound brims.

Open Road

Roper

Rancher

I was thinking the point might have been something like, though these hats and the dozens of other styles that are barely distinguishable don't really look that much like the Open Road, the Open Road came first and they're all descended from it? I don't know if that's true, just guessing.

 

[Undertow]

The visual aspects of the Open Road crown and crease are not typical, they're eccentric. As are bound brims.

I was thinking the point might have been something like, though these hats and the dozens of other styles that are barely distinguishable don't really look that much like the Open Road, the Open Road came first and they're all descended from it? I don't know if that's true, just guessing.

I was basing my observation on visual aspects alone, most certainly not on any technicalities like felt weight, ribbon size etc.

Take a look at the Open Road crown and compare it to the "Roper" crown - although I can't personally measure the crown heights, the crease lengths, etc. I can say with certainty they are visually similar. Thus...

...I've always thought modern cowboy hats are just Wide-Brim Open Roads...

However, let's not fall down the slippery slope of "other styles that are barely distinguishable don't really look that much like the Open Road". One may purchase any open crown hat and produce a teardrop crease, a homburg-style crease, a diamond crease, a camp crease, or even an open road style crease.

But can we say that an open-crown hat with a 3" brim is a fedora as opposed to a "cowboy" hat? Or as opposed to a homburg? Believe me, with a little steam, an open crown and a 3" brim, you can make a "fedora" look like a "cowboy", look like a "hombrg", look like whatever you want. Follow?

In any case, I'm talking visuals here. If you have to pull out a ruler and refer to some esoteric blue print of "hat styles" in order for something to look like something else, I guess you've got me beat, pard. But otherwise, the Open Road does bear some pretty obvious similarities to the typical "roper" cowboy hat.

 

[donnc]

In any case, I'm talking visuals here. If you have to pull out a ruler and refer to some esoteric blue print of "hat styles" in order for something to look like something else, I guess you've got me beat, pard. But otherwise, the Open Road does bear some pretty obvious similarities to the typical "roper" cowboy hat.

Sure, similarities. I still don't get why the Open Road in particular, but I guess that's going to remain a mystery. But, yes, I believe among people who actually wear these western hats, it isn't all the esoteric. If they pay attention to hats at all, they'll be familiar with several different styles that might all look the same to us without a side by side comparison.

"Mind numbingly boring", as asserted at the beginning of the thread, or too subtle for the casual observer?

 

[Charlie74]

Although not a Texan by birth, I do live in Dallas and own 4 cowboy hats. 1 white summer and 3 black hats. Why do you need 3 of the same? Because there are subtle differences. The color of the band, the curve to the brim etc.
And in Texas, you can never go wrong in a cowboy hat

 

[Undertow]

Sure, similarities. I still don't get why the Open Road in particular, but I guess that's going to remain a mystery. But, yes, I believe among people who actually wear these western hats, it isn't all the esoteric. If they pay attention to hats at all, they'll be familiar with several different styles that might all look the same to us without a side by side comparison.

"Mind numbingly boring", as asserted at the beginning of the thread, or too subtle for the casual observer?

Frankly, I'm confused as to whether you're attempting to pose a question, or simply make a statement. Are you saying, "I believe there are subtle differences in modern western style hats, and I believe you all are over-simplifying this topic". <-- Statement

Or are you asking, "Do you all believe there could possibly be subtle differences in modern western style hats that we may have overlooked,"? <-- Question

A casual observer can see the difference between a teardrop crease and a plain center crease without much coaching, but you couldn't really expect one to notice the difference between a 4" crown vs. a 3 1/2" crown; or a 1/2 ribbon vs. a 3/4" ribbon; or Cuenca vs. Montecristi.

This hypothetical observer may call two hats "fedoras" but they would at least be able to say there was a variety in creases. However, if you showed this observer two hats with identical creases, identical ribbons, identical brims, but one had a 3 1/2" crown and the other was merely 3 1/4", we can agree they likely wouldn't notice.

Again, I wonder: are you asking a question, or making a statement? In any case, I believe Matt's initial post was pointing out the lack of variety in appearance between modern western style hats. Modern western style hats may or may not differ in taper, ribbon and crown height, but they all have similar crown style, similar creases, etc. as opposed to the pictures posted which show a pretty wide variety of crowns, creases, etc.

And as far as the open road, again, there's just a basic similarity - not some quantifiable measurement that should be argued.

 

[gtdean48]

Sure, similarities. I still don't get why the Open Road in particular, but I guess that's going to remain a mystery....

No mystery to me = because of the popularity & global recognition of the Open Road due to wearers like HST, LBJ, etc.

 

[4spurs]

cowboy hats

Yep, the cattleman crease is just plain boring on anything other than an OR. You can individualize it if you slap in a kick in the front or back of the crown like the old-timers use to do with their 3.25-3.5" brims, otherwise you're just wearing the store.

Some modern cb hats have a strange shape to the brim, sort of angled like a stealth bomber. One of the problems is that there is too much laquer in the modern hats to do anything with them w/o leaving a crease; and nobody is selling them w/ a pencil curl to the brim unless its a custom hat.

I'm stuck in the 20-30's as for cb hats, they are softer and take a shape w/o resorting to steam [hat waterboarding].

 

[jaymag_87]

I like the look of the current "generic" cowboy hats. To each his own, I guess.

My current felt cowboy Stetson was bought back in 1990, as an open crown, which I had creased similar to the Cattleman. Unfortunately, it is now too small. When and if I ever replace it, it will be a nice custom job from Peters Brothers in Fort Worth. I'm not sure of the styling, yet.


An a side note, several months ago, I was wearing my Peters Brothers fedora in CostCo. I overhear a mother tell her young son something about my "cowboy hat". I live north of Dallas. Texas. [huh]