The lost art of dressing for the occasion

[jamespowers]

Yes I believe so and that divide has been getting on my last nerve lately, as it has a few others here on the FL.

Tell us what you really think.

 

[rue]

Tell us what you really think.

Like you didn't know

 

[Feraud]

Yes I believe so and that divide has been getting on my last nerve lately, as it has a few others here on the FL.

What's this? Do tell of this divide. I didn't realize a schizm was brewing (or existed) and assume groups would peacefully co-exist for "the greater good".

 

[rue]

What's this? Do tell of this divide. I didn't realize a schizm was brewing (or existed) and assume groups would peacefully co-exist for "the greater good".

lol It's not a devious thing Feraud! There won't be a mutiny or anything

There's always been a divide between the "the group who see it more as an anti-modern expression of individual identity (punks, akin to steampunks), and the other who actively embrace an older ethic of a more conservative (small "c", please no party politics!!) way of living and then the clothes, music etc which spring from that" as William put it. And there always will be, but it just seems that lately when a thread like this comes up there are quite a few more of "the non-vintage living" (for lack of a better name) that want to argue just to argue. It's almost like they joined to stir the pot [huh]

 

[Undertow]

To your first paragraph...

Yes, I believe there is a convention for church services - one's "Sunday Best". If your family must cut cardboard to fit into the soles of your shoes because you're too poor to buy a new pair, then by all means, come to church in your best pair of "holy" shoes (I couldn't resist). It's not what you're wearing, it's why you're wearing it; i.e. you're adhereing to the convention that people are expected to dress well to church.

In fact, I believe the loss of this "Sunday Best" convention is the purpose of the last few pages. Incidentally, you and I would probably be having this same discussion if faculty, staff and students all decided to ditch the gowns and wear whatever they liked to graduation. Luckily, graduation only happens once a year and so we still have a bit of pageantry. If graduation was once a week, you can bet people would show up in lawn clothes and mustard stains, and we'd be having this same discussion.

Your question is then, "Who decides what is "good enough"? No one decides. This is the miracle of human interaction. One is expected to "know" what is right. I find it hard to believe someone would feel shorts and flip flops is "right" in that situation. Yet, perhaps the pastor needs to deliver a sermon to help guide his flock on what is appropriate church wear?

Regarding the sins vs. clothing, sin is quite relevant. It is one's pride that says, "I will attend church in my shorts because that is what I'm comfortable wearing, and I don't care what all those uptight fussy people wear." It is one's greed that says, "I don't need a [enter decent clothing], I'll save my money and buy this pair of flip-flops instead. Then I'll have more money for [enter addiction of choice]!" It is one's sloth that says, "I'd rather not spend 45 minutes getting ready for church. Instead, I'll just throw on something comfortable. Besides, I don't want to miss the game."

I agree, we're walking down a path of conjecture in this discussion. We have to somehow guess others' motivations. That is a GREAT reason why one should dress well to go to church!

Think of this - why are all proper tuxedos the same? (NOT the modern crap you find at a wedding industry store, those aren't tuxedos 85% of the time) Formal and semi-formal wear is all the same because it is a uniform. Everyone from richest to poorest is dressed alike. There is no "best dressed" or "least dressed". Everyone invited to a semi-formal evening occasion is expected to wear a tuxedo that strays very, very little from the norm. This is the great equalizer. This convention relieves the attendants of any anxious confusion - what do I wear, how do I wear it, what will they wear, will I look wrong, etc.

Dressing well for church says two things, "I'm not here to call attention to myself, or my inner turmoil, or my increased/decreased wages" and "I'm dressed well because I care about my appearance and because I want to show my god that I take worship seriously in every little facet."

 

[Undertow]

It's almost like they joined to stir the pot [huh]

What's cookin', boss? (mmm...as long as the pot is full of stew or chili, they can stir all they like.) :hungry:




:nerd:

 

[rue]

To add to that....

I originally joined the FL so that I could be part of the "Keepers of the Culture of The Greatest Generation", because I believe in those values. If I wanted to be repeatedly told I'm wrong, I'd call my mother

 

[rue]

What's cookin', boss? (mmm...as long as the pot is full of stew or chili, they can stir all they like.) :hungry:




:nerd:

lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

To add to that....

I originally joined the FL so that I could be part of the "Keepers of the Culture of The Greatest Generation", because I believe in those values. If I wanted to be repeatedly told I'm wrong, I'd call my mother

Actually, I ought to get my mother to join here. She'd put the pot stirrers in their place PDQ.

 

[rue]

Actually, I ought to get my mother to join here. She'd put the pot stirrers in their place PDQ.

From what you've said about her, I can just imagine! lol

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Okay, who's been stirring the pot?

[video=youtube;vtSmfws0_To]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtSmfws0_To[/video]

 

[Edward]

I can't be bothered with it. I've seen plenty of idiocy on both "sides" in my time.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In all seriousness, there are plenty of members here who are able to discuss and disagree with each other without being disagreeable about it. There *are* people who show up here from time to time whose sole purpose seems to be to mess with the Crazy Retro People, but you may have noticed they don't stay around long. They either get bored and leave or cross a line and are Escorted To The Door. The worst way to pursue one of these discussions is to go into it assuming you're going to change anyone's mind, or that there's any point in even trying.

I would add, though, that the best solution for both sides is to simply stay out of threads you don't like the subject of.

 

[Feraud]

lol It's not a devious thing Feraud! There won't be a mutiny or anything

There's always been a divide between the "the group who see it more as an anti-modern expression of individual identity (punks, akin to steampunks), and the other who actively embrace an older ethic of a more conservative (small "c", please no party politics!!) way of living and then the clothes, music etc which spring from that" as William put it. And there always will be, but it just seems that lately when a thread like this comes up there are quite a few more of "the non-vintage living" (for lack of a better name) that want to argue just to argue. It's almost like they joined to stir the pot [huh]

Ugh, is that all? I was hoping for some action..

 

[rue]

Ugh, is that all? I was hoping for some action..

Sorry to disappoint! lol

 

[rue]

In all seriousness, there are plenty of members here who are able to discuss and disagree with each other without being disagreeable about it. There *are* people who show up here from time to time whose sole purpose seems to be to mess with the Crazy Retro People, but you may have noticed they don't stay around long. They either get bored and leave or cross a line and are Escorted To The Door. The worst way to pursue one of these discussions is to go into it assuming you're going to change anyone's mind, or that there's any point in even trying.

I would add, though, that the best solution for both sides is to simply stay out of threads you don't like the subject of.

Exactly.

 

[jamespowers]

I agree, we're walking down a path of conjecture in this discussion. We have to somehow guess others' motivations. That is a GREAT reason why one should dress well to go to church!

[video=youtube_share;RmwqnqL3Hbg]http://youtu.be/RmwqnqL3Hbg[/video]
[video=youtube_share;62Qfbrc1jdo]http://youtu.be/62Qfbrc1jdo[/video]

 

[AmateisGal]

I thought this appropriate to the thread...and, well, who doesn't love a good picture of Cary Grant?

 

[Noirblack]

Yes, I believe there is a convention for church services - one's "Sunday Best". If your family must cut cardboard to fit into the soles of your shoes because you're too poor to buy a new pair, then by all means, come to church in your best pair of "holy" shoes (I couldn't resist). It's not what you're wearing, it's why you're wearing it; i.e. you're adhereing to the convention that people are expected to dress well to church.

In fact, I believe the loss of this "Sunday Best" convention is the purpose of the last few pages. Incidentally, you and I would probably be having this same discussion if faculty, staff and students all decided to ditch the gowns and wear whatever they liked to graduation. Luckily, graduation only happens once a year and so we still have a bit of pageantry. If graduation was once a week, you can bet people would show up in lawn clothes and mustard stains, and we'd be having this same discussion.

Your question is then, "Who decides what is "good enough"? No one decides. This is the miracle of human interaction. One is expected to "know" what is right. I find it hard to believe someone would feel shorts and flip flops is "right" in that situation. Yet, perhaps the pastor needs to deliver a sermon to help guide his flock on what is appropriate church wear?

Regarding the sins vs. clothing, sin is quite relevant. It is one's pride that says, "I will attend church in my shorts because that is what I'm comfortable wearing, and I don't care what all those uptight fussy people wear." It is one's greed that says, "I don't need a [enter decent clothing], I'll save my money and buy this pair of flip-flops instead. Then I'll have more money for [enter addiction of choice]!" It is one's sloth that says, "I'd rather not spend 45 minutes getting ready for church. Instead, I'll just throw on something comfortable. Besides, I don't want to miss the game."

I agree, we're walking down a path of conjecture in this discussion. We have to somehow guess others' motivations. That is a GREAT reason why one should dress well to go to church!

Think of this - why are all proper tuxedos the same? (NOT the modern crap you find at a wedding industry store, those aren't tuxedos 85% of the time) Formal and semi-formal wear is all the same because it is a uniform. Everyone from richest to poorest is dressed alike. There is no "best dressed" or "least dressed". Everyone invited to a semi-formal evening occasion is expected to wear a tuxedo that strays very, very little from the norm. This is the great equalizer. This convention relieves the attendants of any anxious confusion - what do I wear, how do I wear it, what will they wear, will I look wrong, etc.

Dressing well for church says two things, "I'm not here to call attention to myself, or my inner turmoil, or my increased/decreased wages" and "I'm dressed well because I care about my appearance and because I want to show my god that I take worship seriously in every little facet."

Undertow, you say there is a strong connection between clothing and sin and that not dressing up for church is prideful and slothful. I disagree with this and we will each live with our differing opinions.

An important question at this juncture is whether you are telling the people in your church who don't dress properly what they need to wear. If it really troubles you, shouldn't you direct your energy to correcting the problem as it exists in your church? Surely it's more important to tackle the problem itself than to direct energy into a discussion of it.

 

[Flicka]

I dunno... In my church people dress if not up so certainly not down for Mass. I think preparing for Mass by dressing in a certain way helps me to mentally enter what Eliade called The Sacred, and isn't that what religious cermony is all about? Isn't that actually what all cermonies are about? To mark them as special compared to everyday? I don't see how that can be bad.

If you are invited as a guest to any function, you should do your best to conform to the dress code the hosts have stated, even if it means wearing a gold bikini and Mickey Mouse ears, because it's not about you. It's not your party, essentially.

Edited for clarity (and spelling): As for 'the divide', I think it's fine that we disagree as long as we don't lose our manners. Not everyone in the Golden Era agreed on everything either. Please tell me if I get out of line and act disrespectful.

Maybe we should all get our mothers to join. I know mine would do a great job stirring the pot!