The layman's guide to classic hats

[wandering-trader]

I know I haven't been very active here, and I have received the sense I was terse with my posts, but this time I have a serious project I need your input on, wise men of the proper hat.

I have made a pdf explaining what formality of clothing should be worn with what hats, the parts of the hat, and a small bit of text.
I intend to show those modern people that want to look classic why they should stay away from the walmart specials, and towards the real deal.

http://picasaweb.google.com/112035090953435902534/LaymanSHatGuide#

Where do you feel the hat types presented here fit on the scale provided?

Any changes I should make to the parts of a hat diagram or text part?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Shangas]

A tuxedo is a jacket. Part of a black-tie dinner-suit.

From the top down, it's...

White Tie
Black Tie
Suit
Everything else.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

I think that the center column is meant to be the clothing column, while the outer ones are listing the hats which can be worn with the attire in the center column.

I like the spirit behind this idea, but the problem is that it's not necessarily a linear scale. For example, in summer time a boater may be worn with black tie, while a homburg is equally acceptable for wear with a tuxedo, a business suit, or even separates. A bowler would probably seem out of place with a tux, but with separates and 2 and 3 piece business suits probably fine. Also, you didn't mention the top hat!

I think something more like a cloud or tree design might better express what hats may be worn with what attire. An alternative might be to simply list each hat style, its characteristics, and what attire it goes well with, and which it must not be paired with.

Let us know how this project progresses!

 

[Rabbit]

I like the spirit behind this idea, but the problem is that it's not necessarily a linear scale.

How true.

One little part of the secret in dressing really well lies in dressing down or smartening up an otherwise very consistent look by adding an element (or two) of different formality than the rest of the outfit has. Formality, of course, not in the pre-WWII sense of (semi-)formal evening wear (black tie) versus informal street wear (lounge suits), but rather in the sense that - regarding lounge suits - jacket construction, solid versus pattern, fine pattern versus large pattern, single-breasted versus double-breasted jackets, the different pocket styles on jackets, suede versus polished shoes, all the shoe details, necktie details etc. etc. provide different degrees of formality.

Leaving other hat styles aside, there are many details within fedoras alone (they are in no way formal in the pre-WWII sense, but I disgress) that differentiate their formality scale slightly - like brim treatment, crown ribbon style, crown shape, flange.

Very difficult to find guidelines for others to use for all this.

Edit: On a more practical level, fedoras can cover a very wide range of formality, down to something like slacks/ T-shirt/ neckerchief or whatever one might wear for casual stuff.

httppicasaweb.google.com11203509095...sual styles, but can also be worn with suits.

 

[gtdean48]

The proper term is "crease". Bash is not what you'd put in a formal definition of parts of the hat as you have along with crown, brim, etc.

 

[Brad Bowers]

The Derby is often thought to be only business formal today, but in its heyday it was worn by men from just about any profession, social class, and manner of attire. It was the first democratizing hat, (though perhaps egalitarian is a better word), and I believe it remains so today. Derbies work with and are acceptable with just about any modern attire, with a few exceptions such as shorts or sweat pants. Please return it to its former freedom.

Brad

 

[Shangas]

The top hat used to enjoy that kind of social fluidity as well. Before the bowler came along, EVERYONE wore a top hat. Even women. Even labourers. Even shop-keepers. Even people driving steam-trains. They were incredibly common.

 

[Historyteach24]

Here is a question. If you wear a polo with khaki shorts is a panama acceptable? I wear it when at the beach but am unsure of everyday use during the summer

 

[mayserwegener]

There were exceptions back in the day. For example you might have seen a Homburg worn in a casual way.

1925

BTW this topic comes up every so often.

 

[Rabbit]

The Derby is often thought to be only business formal today, but in its heyday it was worn by men from just about any profession, social class, and manner of attire. It was the first democratizing hat, (though perhaps egalitarian is a better word), and I believe it remains so today. Derbies work with and are acceptable with just about any modern attire, with a few exceptions such as shorts or sweat pants. Please return it to its former freedom.

Brad

Well said!

'Bandit's Roost' off Mulberry Street (Manhattan), 1887

 

[zetwal]

'Bandit's Roost' off Mulberry Street, 1887

Interesting picture, thanks.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Here is a question. If you wear a polo with khaki shorts is a panama acceptable? I wear it when at the beach but am unsure of everyday use during the summer

I don't see why not. If you can't wear a straw hat at the beach, regardless of attire, I can't imagine where one should.

 

[Rabbit]

Mixing more formal with less formal

Black Homburg with grey chalk stripe flannel suit and brown tweed overcoat

Exchange the overcoats on these two Gentlemen and you have a more consistent, but also less interesting outfit. This kind of formality mix was well executed in the 1930s.
On the left, a more formal navy pinstripe suit and black Homburg combined with a less formal herringbone tweed overcoat.
On the right, a less formal large-checked flannel suit and Bowler combined with a more formal solid navy overcoat made of finer cloth.
Also check the shoes and socks, and the shirts.

 

[Mystic]

Pork Pies are, as you ranked them, even less formal than Fedoras. They're a little on the nutty side and work well with more casual styles, but can also be worn with suits.

hey wait a minute......pork pies are a little on the nutty side?????

I just bought a Mallory pork pie milan straw........


well, maybe you're right.....just a little nutty :eyebrows:

sometimes I feel like a nut.....sometimes I don't :dance:

 

[Rabbit]

hey wait a minute......pork pies are a little on the nutty side?????

I just bought a Mallory pork pie milan straw........


well, maybe you're right.....just a little nutty :eyebrows:

sometimes I feel like a nut.....sometimes I don't :dance:

Witness Louis Armstrong in High Society (1956) :laugh:

It's a remake of the Philadelphia Story (1940), by the way.

 

[hatophile]

Here is a question. If you wear a polo with khaki shorts is a panama acceptable? I wear it when at the beach but am unsure of everyday use during the summer

Absolutely...

 

[Woodfluter]

Ah, I love the examples you gave Rabbit. In a similar vein, every time I look closely at old photos I see things that puncture preconceptions about clothing.

I think it's very hard to provide rigid guidelines that work well. You might lay out certain expectations, but as in the examples shown, *taste* involves understanding what people expect, and knowing how to cross those lines in a creative, interesting way. As opposed to blindly following the herd, or putting things together that just don't work at all.

But there's the germ of a useful idea in the original concept afoot. I think you'd want to acknowledge that, much as some of us like the styles of a certain slice of history, folks in the 21st century that return to hats will, to a great extent, create their own expectations.

Maybe, rather than the clothing association thought, just show some varied examples of hats and clothing that most folks think are sharp? Get the ideas across by assimilation?

 

[wandering-trader]

Thanks for the rapid replies with examples all.

I'll post the changes I made to the folder by thursday.

I will change "bash" to crease, include top hat, and do a cloud formation of hat given season and white/black tie and everything else, including notes under each hat regarding panama weave and shape formality.

I'll make a 2nd version of the same page with examples as an alternate.

Do any changes need to be made to the etiquette section? And if so, what?
Also what shapes are more formal than others in panamas?
Should I add a time scale to this, or would that make it too complicated?

Keep the input coming and I'll have a finished project by end of summer.

 

[Shangas]

Etiquette looks pretty good. I don't see any glaring issues there.

What do you mean by a "timescale"?

 

[wandering-trader]

What years (1900's, 10's, ...) for timescale, but on second thought, just the season-formality-hat clouds would be complex enough for lay people.