The I'm-too-good-for-this-job Attitude

[Miss Neecerie]

#2 When I was in college, and in grad school, I was told by ALL of my professors, that literally, the sky was the limit, I would graduate school, get snatched up by some big corporation, because I was just that smart and talented, and make mega bucks. I HONESTLY believed this. Being a child, I had no real concept of the "real world" and was taught the only reason others weren't as successful as I was going to be was because they weren't educated well and didn't apply themselves. But we, were different, just look at all the folk who dropped out since freshman year.

When I graduated at 19 and didn't get the great job, I was told, get your graduate degree, NO ONE can deny you once your education is "COMPLETE", so, I went after the grad degree, two of them. Many schools really fill their students with unrealistic expectations. There is one thing to be positive, there is another thing to misleading.

Thank you for saying this.

I was an 'older' University student, so I had some grounding in real life by the time I got there, but I totally agree that the system these days teaches them that by getting those magic letters, they -deserve- a spectacular job right out of school.

Thus very few are willing to do entry level things until they realise the great joke the system just played on them and to eat and pay their loans, they gotta do it.

People never talk about this, the flip side of the coin of opportunity, that there arn't enough 'spectacular' jobs for all the people that graduate from university each year expecting them.

Everyone in schools gets taught that you -need- to go on to university, even if its not the best choice for them. I really wish there was more emphasis on trade schools and so forth, as being -valid- options for anyone.

D...rambling

 

[Fletch]

I think I pretty much have the system beat. I had a pretty prestigious job right out of college, but after a year and a half of misery and ill-will, I decided I didn't deserve diddly/squat in the way of a fulfilling career. It's been a great load off my mind ever since.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Glad I am retired, it's a Godzilla-eat-Godzilla world out there!

When I was in the County of San Diego, at one time there was a money shortage and the administrators decided their jobs were more important than line staff and so got rid of hundreds of clerical positions.

That lasted just a few weeks before they started bringing in temp workers, because nothing was getting done in the offices.

I have always respected folks who do waitressing, clerical work, service jobs, fast food workers, day care and home care assistants (many make minimum wages and there they are taking care of people, which to me is much more important work than what we paper pushers do).

One of our clerical staff expressed it best. She had a bumper sticker on her battered old VW that stated "Nothing Works Without Clerks."

karol

 

[Elaina]

I hear you on sight reading. I spent a year teaching good old phonics to my son...and got a letter from the school board to cease and desist. I also have one stating that I should quit teaching my son science (which we fail at in testing), all because I taught him Pluto was no longer a planet and he's several grades higher in science comprehension then the average 2nd grader.

 

[Paisley]

2 When I was in college, and in grad school, I was told by ALL of my professors, that literally, the sky was the limit, I would graduate school, get snatched up by some big corporation, because I was just that smart and talented, and make mega bucks.

This reminds me of celebrities who say, "Follow your dream! I made it--you can too!" It reminds me of people who say, "Anyone can be president."

We can't all be celebritries, one person out of 300 million can be president, and hard work and virtue aren't always rewarded. I know that successful people work very hard, they make good decisions, and those are major factors in their success, but there's also an element of being at the right place at the right time that many aren't willing to admit.

 

[Pilotguy299]

We did it to ourselves

The I read an article this morning, the thrust of which was, "What [some] folks are saying is that the America founded on the Puritan ethic of hard-nosed industriousness has become a nation of lazy, above-it-all 'job snobs'..."

I think it's all our fault (society's fault). We've spent so much time telling kids that "they are all winners" and giving into their every wish and whim. We give ribbons for 386th place and tell everyone that it's OK.

We've molly-coddled kids so much and we've not taught them the reality of life. They are so used to being told that they are doing well, that when things don't go their way they are not used to having to deal with disappointment. I believe that's why we see some people act out and become violent, because they don't know how to deal with reality. They expect to be rewarded even when things go wrong. We've instilled entitlement into the minds of our children. It's sad...

 

[Paisley]

The two ladies I interviewed were about 35 and 50--old enough to know better. However, they had both been away from working for a company for awhile. Maybe that was a factor. Or maybe they figured they'd paid their dues already.

The young staff accountants I work with are great about pitching in and helping when I'm busy and they aren't. They've never complained or copped an attitude about being asked to get the mail or bind reports.

 

[vonwotan]

Op Ed impressions from a manager - no stats, etc.

A sense of entitlement seems to make it difficult for many folks to accept their current jobs, roles or circumstances. To complicate matters, while being "too good" for a particular job is IMHO inappropriate, we do see quite a few "overqualified" applicants and employees - young and not so young people with Masters and Doctorates in jobs predominately filled by young graduates or canidates with associate degrees from local community colleges. In many cases the young or the "overeducated" become bored, dissatisfied or try to move on - some successfully, some not.

Attitudes and the workplace have really changed. Jobs that would have been considered quite respectable and that paid enough to build a nice life are less well regarded in a time when few of these workers can afford even the smallest of homes in or around the larger cities.

 

[Fletch]

I think it's all our fault (society's fault). We've spent so much time telling kids that "they are all winners" and giving into their every wish and whim. We give ribbons for 386th place and tell everyone that it's OK.

We've molly-coddled kids so much and we've not taught them the reality of life. They are so used to being told that they are doing well, that when things don't go their way they are not used to having to deal with disappointment. I believe that's why we see some people act out and become violent, because they don't know how to deal with reality. They expect to be rewarded even when things go wrong. We've instilled entitlement into the minds of our children. It's sad...

You know you're exaggerating like crazy here, don't you?

Sure, we make too many empty gestures at kids today. I think they mostly see them for what they are. And gosh knows the other kids don't spare them calls of "loser," "wuss," "wimp," etc.

But...how entitled do you really think young people are? And how un-entitled would you prefer they be? Would it be better if kids came out of college asking nothing more than a $5 an hour dead end job any half-wit could do, and feeling grateful for every fin no matter if they were treated like dirt?

Do you think we should administer kicking-around lessons to young people to keep their sense of self-worth and -respect in check? Do you think maybe we do that already?

vonwotan has a helluva good point about attitudes and the climate in the workplace. And the blame for that ain't all on the new hires. There's a lot more stress and a lot less dignity in a modest job these days. Part of the reason is that workers today are disposable and expendable. Do you really expect intelligent young people to swallow a message that without complaint because it's good for them?

What they feel "entitled" to isn't a $60k starting salary and an empty title with nothing to do. What they mostly want is some of the respect (and respectability) they would have gotten in times past, and seeing as they're giving up most of every day for the boss, maybe just a little more giveback as far as meeting their everyday needs.

Do you think, just maybe, young people have become skeptical, even cynical, about the American Dream? What then - shove it down their throats and kick 'em out the door?

 

[Lady Day]

I dont know if its a since of entitlement, but I know, as someone who has two degrees, and has cleaned toilets for years, that 'you pay your dues until you dont anymore'. Well, alright, Im paying my dues, thats it, but Ive been doing it for x years and Im still cleaning toilets while person x who I knew as less talented than I am is in that entry job to their carrier. Hmmm.....

What they dont tell you in schools is that talent is a distant second to who you know. That is the cold real truth, and if you are making it on talent alone, it will take much much longer, if at all.

Ranting, I know. Solly.

LD

 

[Miss Brill]

"What [some] folks are saying is that the America founded on the Puritan ethic of hard-nosed industriousness has become a nation of lazy, above-it-all 'job snobs'..."

I don't see anything wrong with being picky about what you are going to be doing 8 hours a day. People before, women especially, had to take whatever jobs they could find, now they can been choosy, so what does it hurt?

 

[Fletch]

Seems to be a lot of the problem is that people expect fairly decent pay and working environment when they're young and green, or not well motivated, or in unsexy occupations. Expectations are out of whack with reality, although no one's real clear on what the expectations are and what the reality is. People do all kinds of things in all kinds of workplaces.

The question is whether people should simply adjust their expectations down to what the market will bear. The answer depends, I guess, on whether you really do believe there is opportunity out there for everybody, and that success or failure depends entirely on the individual.

Furthermore - not everybody can be as choosy as all that. Just the other day one of our Portland, OR loungers posted that a college degree is worth slightly above minimum wage out there.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I guess it depends on who is being picky about jobs and why.

There are young people entering the job market now now who have been used to getting lots of awards and accolades, sheltered, protected, lavishly praised at home and at school. Some have high or unrealistic expectations. They do good work for several weeks, then tell the boss they want a promotion and/or raise. They don't get it and off they go looking for another job. Looking for that instant gratification, which they have had all their young lives.

When I was a social worker in San Diego, I was amazed at the number of clients on welfare who thought they should not go to work until they had their "dream jobs." Having never worked outside the home, many had unrealistic expectations of the world of work, also.

karol

 

[Fletch]

OK Karol, then I want to ask you more or less the same question I asked Pilotguy (calling Pilotguy...do you copy?...over):
What do you suggest we do about it? Lay off the kindness altogether and start training kids to be survivors in a mean and nasty world? Encourage the revival of the phrase "You will never amount to anything"? (Hey, it worked for Einstein.) Replace school counselors with drill instructors?

Yeah, so I'm straw-manning here. But the folks who complain about coddling...well, they never propose a positive alternative. I don't know. Maybe the alternative has to be negative. But I hope not.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I think it is good that we praise and take care of our kids, it is good that they are rewarded. And they need protection in this day and age. But, I do believe we have to beware of over-rewarding, or maybe constant rewarding, and put a dose of reality into it, also. No, there are things out in the real world that you will not be rewarded for very much if at all. Don't take guff or abuse in the workplace, but don't expect overnight success. Give the job a chance before you move on. There must be a happy medium out there between over-protecting and having them raised by a D.I.

Certainly I wouldn't want to see anything change and go back to the way it was when I was a kid -- hyper-criticism, and lots of fear just rolling off our parents, who had a depression-mentality. And told you couldn't work at certain jobs because you were the wrong sex.

As for my clients, I urged them to get education, a GED, a CNA certificate, or some office skills classes and break into an organization where they can learn and grow. I discouraged most of them from taking telemarketing jobs (most people last about 3 days), athough there are some who do succeed (two of my clients out of dozens). I tried to counsel them about the job market and expectations, also give those who had never worked an opportunity to work without them having to go off welfare (which was scary for many folks) -- they would be put in non-profit organizations to do all sorts of work for a short period of time. Many got real jobs in those organizations and went off the welfare rolls. And some reported back to me that they got promoted into better jobs.

No easy answers to any of this, and one could write a book about it, but I see how my great nephews and niece are being raised and I shudder to think what they will be like as adults when things aren't just handed to them.

karol

 

[Paisley]

I don't think this attitude is peculiar to young adults. As I mentioned, the ladies I interviewed were my age and older. I have friends and relatives my age who just don't want to work, or want the success of a great job without all the sacrifices, or are constantly wishing for a dream job.

I work around successful CPAs. I haven't asked them what the ingredients to their success are, but I've made some observations of the partners and senior managers here:

• They work many, many hours--it's not a 40-hour-a-week job.
• They keep abreast of technology, information and developments in their field.
• They call in, check e-mail and check voice mail every day, even when on vacation.
• They were outstanding students.
• They have an deep and extensive knowledge of their field and can answer many client questions without any notes or files.
• They treat their employees well.
• They hire competent people they don't have to micromanage.
• They are secure and comfortable with themselves and command respect. They can take a joke, but they don't inspire many.

I think the answer is to be realistic. If you want great success, all of the above is more or less what you have to do. If you don't want to do all of that, you'll probably have to be content with less material success in life.

 

[Rosie]

The I read an article this morning, the thrust of which was, "What [some] folks are saying is that the America founded on the Puritan ethic of hard-nosed industriousness has become a nation of lazy, above-it-all 'job snobs'..."

I didn't want to take it here but, America was NOT founded on hard-nosed industriousness. It was founded on the destruction and partial destruction of two races. One through murder and one through free slave labor. Whoever thinks otherwise is themselves living in a pipe dream.

 

[Bebop]

The reason any of these attitudes exist is because there are no real consequences. Society is a very enjoyable place to live even while not employed. The internet, T.V., so called creative urges and the like make not working, not as bad as it used to be. Having an employer not want you for the job has less consequences. The government gives you money for not working, a lot of nice things take place while others are at work, it is almost impossible to evict anyone from their rental unit when they don't pay rent and if you get canned from your job, it seems to be some sort of badge of honor to some people. It includes the "They-can't-tell-me-what-to-do-just-because-I-work-for-them" attitude.

 

[Paisley]

Do you think we should administer kicking-around lessons to young people to keep their sense of self-worth and -respect in check? Do you think maybe we do that already?

Employers need to be realistic, too. In a job market of something like 4% unemployment, jerks aren't going to keep employees around for long, especially in a field where it's hard to find help. For about 10 or 20 years now, engineering companies have treated engineers as a commodity: they hire them they need help, they lay them off when the job's done. No training, no security, and in some cases, no benefits or holidays. But the companies would advertise for months for someone with extensive experience in some obscure skill. They wouldn't provide training, though, which comes back to the we're-too-good-for-this-job attitude (the job here being training employees). Now they wonder why they can't get enough engineers to come work for them.

 

[Marty M.]

Me first.

Paisley, I've thought many times that if ever I need to hire someone for my own company that would help us be successful and make money, I'd call you. You clearly have your head on straight.

Of course, I ain't got no cumpnee.

Sorry Scotrace, I need her more then you. I need at least one Smart Person in this store. Speaking of the store, you know that I've never had anybody come in and ask if we were hiring. We have a nice looking shop. Complete with a pool table, big screen tv playing old movies and Frank, Dean and Sammy playing over the system. So what gives? [huh] Is it that Retail is below most? Or is it me? Maybe I should brush more.
Marty