The Great Mac vs. Windows Debate

[pgoat]

That's good to know; we were looking at the Linksys.....

 

[pgoat]

can't wait....soooo excited!!

I went in early today to get out ahead of schedule and try to beat the Fed Ex truck (so it will be the white step van of bliss, not UPS).

Can't wait!! The memory modules arrived yesterday so we are all ready to max it out and rev it up.

Whoo-hoo!

 

[Mr_Misanthropy]

I have a few Macbook questions, I was wondering if some of the experts here could possibly assist. I was thinking of ordering a used Macbook off of eBay, and upgrading whatever I could as far as hard drive, etc. I was wondering what all I could upgrade, and to what extent. Ideally I'd want the maximum available (4 GB?) RAM, 256 GB hard drive, and if possible, a better graphics card. I have found a lot of information online regarding upgrading the MacBook Pros, but not much on MacBooks.

I've barely used Mac computers at all, so this is all pretty new to me. My last three laptops have been Dell's running Windows XP. The computer I have now isn't very old, and it meets my needs except for the hard drive. Also, I just got an 80 GB iPod, and my current laptop only has 50 GB. I've gone a little music crazy, so I definitely need more, and I don't want to have to hook up an external HD every time I sync with the iPod. I plan to pass this one along to my better half when I get a new one, so, it's not like it's a loss.

Would I be better off buying a new Macbook for about $2000 with the specifications I want, or would I save money getting a gingerly used one from eBay and upgrading it myself? If anyone wants to PM me about this as to not hijack the thread, please feel free. I've got a few questions and I don't want to write a novel here. lol

Thanks!

 

[pgoat]

I am not an expert - just poking my newbie nose in - whilst looking at Macs we realized there are refurbished Macs at www.macmall.com

maybe someone can verify/confirm - is this so, and maybe they are more reliable vs. buying used off ebay?

 

[Mr_Misanthropy]

Thanks for the link! I'd say buying from a place like this would be safer than eBay. They are an authorized Apple reseller, after all. I'll check it out! I've done some digging, and I see the graphics cards in a Macbook as well as the processor can't be upgraded at all. Hard drive and RAM look like fair game though.

 

[scotrace]

Adding ram is no problem; swapping out the HD can be done, but you'll have an afternoon and some jangled nerves in it.

Go to ifixit, and read the easy-to-follow tutorials on what you want to accomplish.

You can also buy refurb from Apple, or from Macofalltrades. Buying computers via ebay can be a risky business.

 

[Dutch McCoy]

Mac all the way. I can use both equally well but for my "work" (filmmaking), I have to use a Mac. For business type things, we have a laptop that uses windows.

 

[Salv]

Swapping the HD in a MacBook is very easy - you just remove the battery, unscrew the L-shaped RAM guard and pull a plastic tab on a metal bracket attached to the HD. The bracket and HD will just slide out. Unscrew the bracket, screw it on to your replacement HD and push it back into place. Job done. Initialising the drive and installing the OS won't be quite as quick though.

While you've got the RAM shield off you can replace the RAM modules as well, but I don't think you can get 2GB RAM modules for MacBooks - at least Crucial don't offer any - so the maximum will be 2 x 1GB.

 

[MK]

.

When it comes to politics, some would like to see a third party. I am undecided in that regard.....but I would love to see third, viable OS for logical people. Windows used to be that but it has sacrificed some logic for Apple-ish warm fuzzy thinking.

One example:

When I started out on Windows many moons ago, the file management application was called "File Manager". Then Gates changed it to "Windows Explorer". That is progress for you.

OK.....another example. A few versions back Microsoft opened a bad can of worms. The file tree showed you accurately what was on your drives. Then they made a left turn from logic and added a folder above My computer called "My documents". So....this folder is not on the computer? It is not on a drive? Of course every software company wanted to have it's special "My" folder above everything. With Vista they have dropped the "My" since there are now so many folders up there it looked silly....but they still have them above my computer....which is not only not logical....it also is incorrect and gives people the wrong impression.

It is this kind of thinking that keeps me away from Apple. I wish Microsoft would return to original mission.

Comedian George Carlin and I are on the same page when it comes to language.

 

[Salv]

...
OK.....another example. A few versions back Microsoft opened a bad can of worms. The file tree showed you accurately what was on your drives. Then they made a left turn from logic and added a folder above My computer called "My documents". So....this folder is not on the computer? It is not on a drive? Of course every software company wanted to have it's special "My" folder above everything. With Vista they have dropped the "My" since there are now so many folders up there it looked silly....but they still have them above my computer....which is not only not logical....it also is incorrect and gives people the wrong impression.

It is this kind of thinking that keeps me away from Apple. I wish Microsoft would return to original mission.

Comedian George Carlin and I are on the same page when it comes to language.

But the Mac OS doesn't have any "My ..." folders, and it still treats the machines hard drive as the starting point. On the desktop the default icon arrangement has Macintosh HD at the top, and that arrangement long predates the introduction of OS X. Open the HD and you'll see folders with titles such as Applications, Library, System and Users. Within the Users folder are the individual Home folders of all the users with accounts on that Mac. Inside each of these Home folders will be folders for Documents, Music, Movies etc, and another Library folder containing such things as Mail accounts, Calendar data, individual preference files etc. You can obviously have a shortcut to your Documents folder on the Desktop, but your real Docs folder is down at Macintosh HD -> Users -> Home -> Documents.

There's some odd logic in the real placement of the Desktop folder, but that's unavoidable with multiple users on the same machine: Macintosh HD sits on the desktop, but the individual Desktop folder for a user would be at Macintosh HD -> Users -> Home -> Desktop.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

When it comes to politics, some would like to see a third party. I am undecided in that regard.....but I would love to see third, viable OS for logical people. Windows used to be that but it has sacrificed some logic for Apple-ish warm fuzzy thinking.

One example:

When I started out on Windows many moons ago, the file management application was called "File Manager". Then Gates changed it to "Windows Explorer". That is progress for you.

OK.....another example. A few versions back Microsoft opened a bad can of worms. The file tree showed you accurately what was on your drives. Then they made a left turn from logic and added a folder above My computer called "My documents". So....this folder is not on the computer? It is not on a drive? Of course every software company wanted to have it's special "My" folder above everything. With Vista they have dropped the "My" since there are now so many folders up there it looked silly....but they still have them above my computer....which is not only not logical....it also is incorrect and gives people the wrong impression.

It is this kind of thinking that keeps me away from Apple. I wish Microsoft would return to original mission.

Comedian George Carlin and I are on the same page when it comes to language.

Go linux and use a command line interface then. Definately none of that fluffy fuzzy easy to use nonsense there

 

[J. M. Stovall]

For true organization I'm hooked on the Unix browser (in columns) that started with OSX...it's so much more intuitive than the old twirl the arrow Apple finder. That was how the NeXT Computers finder was set up too! Bringing Unix to Mac was the best thing to come from Jobs' NeXT "Experiment". I really loved those machines, we had three and they were rock solid!

 

[pgoat]

we are still waiting for our first mac to arrive (darn FED EX and their empty tracking page promises!!:rage: :rage: :rage: ).

This has given us time to mess with our tiny office area and mull over what to do with the old machine (a 9 yr old Windows XP PC with about 75% of its 20GB hard drive full and memory maxed out at 512MB).

I'd kinda like to keep it up and running alongside the new iMac, especially for when I use Access and other MS Office thingies (you can get the Office 08 suite for Macs, but not with everything, like Access, to my knowledge).

Would you keep both? Ditch the old timer for good? Stash it in the closet just in case something happens and we need a backup while the new one is repaired?

I had envisioned a mini computer cockpit (guess it's a 'guy' thing ) but my wife is seeing it as yucky clutter.....I should mention the old boy has a big footprint CRT monitor. That's the main issue - the tower is discreetly tucked away under our computer table and the iMac will certainly not be competing for a lot of space.

 

[Mr_Misanthropy]

Pgoat, I think you should go for the computer cockpit. I've always wanted a home office with a couple of PCs and all kinds of gadgets here and there. Unless the CRT is seriously outdated, surely it could be put in a corner of the desk, right? Or, you could possibly replace it with a used one. But I'm sure having two machines will have it's advantages, more so than putting it in the closet. As for convincing the wife, you're on your own there.

 

[pgoat]

Thanks. We talked it over some more tonight....I lobbied for putting the old monitor to the side, at least temporarily. We have a nice computer stand desk from Levenger - the old tower will sit discreetly below; only the old monitor needs relocating. We basically have to find a stand for it more or less adjacent to the levenger desk, where the iMac shall soon perch (if Fed Ex ever comes through!).

If it turns out we never use the old one, I'd be fine with putting it in a closet to have as a backup.

I'm fearing now that my best reason for keeping it out & operational would be for the Office applications, and I'd probably need to install all the newer stuff for that to be worth it (Publisher, Sharepoint, etc). I have all the older stuff (Access, Powerpoint, Word, Excel, Outlook) from ca. 2002.

I am sure the new iMac will have apps that will do what I need and maybe nicer, but it is still a PC workplace for me so I like having that available to me at home if possible....

 

[Miss Neecerie]

You should go back a few pages in this thread and read Scotrace and how he uses a mac and his coworkers dont, and how they are none the wiser that he does not have Office on his machine yet does the same stuff compatibly.

 

[Warbaby]

Beautiful machines! I still have a complete Cube system with most of the peripherals - external HD case, speaker, printer, etc. Vintage computing at its finest!

 

[pgoat]

You should go back a few pages in this thread and read Scotrace and how he uses a mac and his coworkers dont, and how they are none the wiser that he does not have Office on his machine yet does the same stuff compatibly.

I know - I was thinking of that post when I wrote the new mac will probably do it better. But there are some cases where your job insists on the same old same old, and you have no choice but to use the MS stuff.

In any case, I don't know if I see spending a couple hundred dollars to install a new Office suite on the old machine. But at the very least I will definitely keep it as a backup. I am not interested in going through that panic the next time our main computer decides to die on us (what'll happen to our data? what will we use till it's fixed. etc etc)

 

[Natty Bumpo]

<a href="http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/MasFutbol/?action=view&current=pc_vs_mac_shutup.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/MasFutbol/pc_vs_mac_shutup.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[scotrace]

In any case, I don't know if I see spending a couple hundred dollars to install a new Office suite on the old machine.

Here's the thing you may be missing:

Scenario A- Bob sends you a Microsoft Word document via email. Without having MS Office on your new iMac (as long as you have the $70 iWork suite), you can open that MS Word doc seamlessly. Just double click it. No need for Office or MS Word software.

Scenario B - You create a brand new document using Apples iWork suite, and need to send it to Bob so HE can open it with MS Word. No problem. In the file menu you will chose export --> Word. Then you have an MS Word version of your document, which you then send to Bob. He gets it, and opens it with Word by just double clicking it. You don't have to tell him anything extra, or even let him know you don't have Word.
Same goes for Excel or Powerpoint files. File ---> Export, done.

See? Buying Office is a redundant waste of money, as you can seamlessly open and read MS files, and edit and them and change them and send them as MS files, without ever opening a bit of MS software.

I can also tell you an easy way to eliminate having to ever use Windows Media Player to open media player files. You won't need to have a stitch of MS software, if you choose not to.