The Goodwear Kool-Aid

[Senicko_Spain]

Riddle me this, riddle me that....Let me preface this post by saying I have all the respect in the world for John Chapman and his venture in the repro jacket field. With this said I would like for you gents to chime in and tell me what has happened to the rest of the jacket manufactures? Isn't there any competition anymore? Are these jackets "all that and more?" I have owned just about every repro out there sans GW. I don't normally buy new and I sure the heck won't wait a year for a repro jacket, not even a GW. Anyhow, why is everyone in a stupor over these jackets? In the past stitch count and cotton thread core was the topic du jour but now that's not good enough, now all of a sudden these jackets we once held so dear are no longer worthy of wear. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but why oh why aren't there any critics of GW? Let's discuss this please, I'm baffled. :eusa_doh:

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

All I can say is that I visited the Goodwear website, and was very impressed by what I saw. Also the testimony of customers and pictures here. I am seriously considering getting one myself now. The leathers look to be top notch, and the price of a jacket is a bit less than the older established jacket makers. All these factors make me want to try a Goodwear.

 

[BellyTank]

Senicko...

... from what you've seen and heard and what you know,
what's YOUR take, what's YOUR critique of Goodwear jackets?

You have set the stage- now please perform.




B
T

 

[Feraud]

I do not notice a lack of competition among jacket purchases from Lounge members. There is a steady discussion and purchase of the new and vintage jackets.

From what I have seen in person and read, Chapman is making a great product right out of the gate. It is possible there is little room for criticism right now because the product is so well received by those who own his jackets.

People frequently wait many months for a product and especially if enthusiasm is high. You can read many examples of members waiting months for custom suits, fedoras, shoes, etc. A long wait for an a2 is not so odd.

 

[BellyTank]

True- John is a friend of the "Flight Jacket Community" that we are part of,
or are friendly with, so he is supported. But he has also amassed a vast collection of flight jackets over the years, has a keen eye and IS doing what all the other manufacturers claim to do- creating a very authentic jacket- probably as authentic as is humanly possible.
He probably goes further than most or all of the other manf's in sourcing materials- only the BR's and RMC's get the exotic zipper thing happening. Ken Calder, of Aero, once used the term, "Theme Park", to describe the Japanese repros- I didn't really agree with him at the time but now, I see what he means but I think the same goes for Aero.

All these other jackets are not quite true, no matter how honest they are.
They all have their little foibles but JC has watched, seen, observed, understood and done his best to not make the same detours, or miss the details, use just-good-enough hardware.

I don't own one but they do look good to me- I'm a jacket skeptic.


B
T

 

[fishmeok]

Something else to consider- Goodwear is ONE man with one sewing machine who taught himself how to make A-2's as authentically as possible, based on obsessive collecting and cataloging. The patterns he has made are as true to the originals as possible, and he has done a tremendous amount of work sourcing hides, fasteners, zippers, he hand dyes the linings and knits to match originals, etc.

I know from personal experience how difficult it is to make a jacket (see my other threads), or even a patterns, which raises my opinion of his work considerably.

The other repro makers all make fantastic jackets, but they have either modernized the pattern or made other changes that make them look like modern mass-produced jackets. A lot of this has to do with how obsessive you are about this whole thing, most people wouldn't know the difference- but the more you look at the cut of the originals, the more you see it.

As for owning originals- I'm 6' 190 lbs, originals that would fit me are relatively rare, and WAY more than I can afford. (except for an Aero that I just missed the other day that needed new lining, zipper, etc.) Plus they are getting to be 60-70 years old, and I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing one every day.

Last is customer service. John will take the time to talk about every little detail, history, contract, etc. Because he truly enjoys his work and has found his own jacket nerd (as my wife calls us) nirvana. plus he has the best website hands down.

That's what I think, anyway.
Cheers
Mark

 

[Rufus]

Why aren't there any critics?

Why criticize a small private venture making a high quality product made at a competitive price, with the upmost love and skill.

I have nothing but admiration for Mr Chapman's endeavour, and look forward to ordering an A1 from him.

Steve, you've been collecting a long time, I'm quite sure you know the sorts of waiting time from a sole operating company.

If you want to seriously examine John's work, buy a jacket. You sell a lot of jackets on Ebay, I'm sure you could see your way clear to purchasing one.

Then you could properly critique it.

All the best,
Rufus

 

[rumblefish]

From what I've seen here and other forums; Critics of Goodwear are people who don't own a Goodwear. Count me as a devout fan and admirer. I'm no where near the expert you are Steve or many others here, but I do appreciate authenticity. The more I learn of A-2s and other flight jackets the more I feel justified in paying my money and waiting for one of John's jackets.

 

[RudyN]

I have a Goodwear on order. I know it is somewhat pricey and will take a while to get it. However, I am willing to pay the price and wait for delivery. I also do Civil War Reenacting and the wait for handmade items is longer than that for Goodwear. I ordered a pair of drawers in February and still have not received them. The vendor I ordered then from does work that is equivalent to Johns and the wait is worth it also.

 

[John Lever]

Steve, I still rate ELC, RMNZ and The Few very highly, and recently bought jackets from them. But then I have no interest in A2's.
The most important factor with GW is he actually makes the jacket for you on a one to one basis.

 

[Hawk_Eye]

I think some people are mis-interpreting Senickos comments. He isnt criticizing Goodwear, he's simply asking why suddenly Goodwear has made very single other manufacturer obsolete, regardless of how highly they used to be thought of. Which I believe is a valid question. As of recently I'm a goodwear owner myself and I absolutely love the jacket, its an amazing and high quality product. Personally I think part of the mystique about them is that its one guy, working on his one sewing machine, rather than 20 or how-ever many working at Eastman, Aero, etc.

 

[Senicko_Spain]

All I did was post some questions, playing devils advocate so to speak. As I said I have nothing but admiration for John and his venture, I was simply posing some questions to ponder. I am not a sheep, nor do I drink Kool-aid from anyone. As I said in my post, I would like to discuss this like adults, but it appears that we can't do that cuz a few of you have the thought that I am out to castrate JC and that's not the case. I posed a question for discussion. As for you CSG, I have no beef with you nor did I trash any jackets on the VLJ....True I was removed from the board, but that's irrelevant to this post, so please try to stay on topic and not skew my original question. All I hear is rah-rah and no constructive criticism whatsoever. So, without taking personal shots at me, please keep the discussion going. ANd No, I do NOT own A GW, this is why I am posting this.

 

[Senicko_Spain]

If you want to seriously examine John's work, buy a jacket. You sell a lot of jackets on Ebay, I'm sure you could see your way clear to purchasing one.

Then you could properly critique it.

I would like to but I will not wait a year to get one when I can grab originals in my size for half of a GW and they fit! I'm a 38, I really do not have to buy a repro, most WWII jackets fit me like a glove.

It's a shame you feel the need to poke holes in balloons.. but as has been stated, this exploded in your face on other forums.

Never brought this up before, and was hesitant to bring it up here, but with all the cheering, I thought it worthy of some discussion. And, this is irrelevant as well.

 

[CSG]

My apologies then.

 

[Senicko_Spain]

My apologies then.

None needed, but thx.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I think some people are mis-interpreting Senickos comments. He isnt criticizing Goodwear, he's simply asking why suddenly Goodwear has made very single other manufacturer obsolete, regardless of how highly they used to be thought of. Which I believe is a valid question. As of recently I'm a goodwear owner myself and I absolutely love the jacket, its an amazing and high quality product. Personally I think part of the mystique about them is that its one guy, working on his one sewing machine, rather than 20 or how-ever many working at Eastman, Aero, etc.

This is how i read it too. An interesting discussion.

As i read comments re: Goodwear, i get a general feeling that the general feeling (forgive me) is that GW has raised the bar. Not just authentic zips, not just authentic this and that. But the bar seems to have been raised significantly. Gauntlets have been tossed to the sand, lines have been drawn. The whole product, from other people's descriptions, appears to be leaving the other manufacturers in the dust. Gone are the days of havig to put up with the BS emanating from LostWorlds or the legendary inaccuracies of modern Aero gear. For the record: I do not, and never will, own a GW - I hate the A2 and period leatherwear isn't a problem in my size.

Of course, at the moment this is a small one-man-team, making few products - no economies of scale - so waiting times will of course be longer. Were this to translate to a larger venture - maintaining all the same standards of manufacture, materials, accuracy, etc. - waiting times would come down, as would cost (price to consumer). The other manufacturers would be forced to compete, and the general authenticity of the products on offer would go up if that's what the market demanded. Sadly, i don't think that is what the market demands. The market, as always, demands a $30 product that looks the part - kinda, maybe, in fog … without my glasses - but will not wear like it should. GW is doomed to be a niche, i think. Time will tell …

As to the GWs i've seen (pictures here). Frankly, as with most other repros and originals i've seen here, they simply don't fit the wearers. Generally too big in the shoulders and too much body. But if that's what they want, that's what they get. It's no reflection on the company or the product.

bk

 

[CBI]

I enjoy GW, ELC and Aero and applaud anyone who takes the time to make a great jacket. You know, they are just jackets so I don't get all of the hype, OCD, the what the heck ever that goes on sometimes. When the posts are informative, fun, etc, its great. Yes, the GW guys have gone a bit crazy in the enthusiam but lets face it: 99% of the jacket sales that these companies are dealing with are not VLJ and FL members. I know that Areo and ELC are doing extrmemly well in regards sales and John at GW seems to be busy. I undertsand that The Few is pretty backlogged as well so, looking good for the industry which is great news!!!!!!!!!!!! I posted on the VLJ site that the more things one likes, the better off one is and I think its true with jackets. In reguard authenticity, I feel that the level of interpretation can be pretty wide considering many a flyer in WWII simply went out and bought a civilian jacket and was able to use it. The only "camp" I am sort of in is that I like the look of A-2's the way they look in old photos: with 50 or 100 missions behind them. A 60 year old jacket looks like its 60 years old no matter what condition its in so I no longer go for originals as cool as owning a piece of history is. Yes, I DO love the originals but don't buy them. My last 3 jacket purchases were an ELC A-1, an Aero Leather Real Deal A-2 and a Goodwear A-2 Dubow in goat - all wonderful.

 

[Senicko_Spain]

Yes, the GW guys have gone a bit crazy in the enthusiam

Hence my initial post.

99% of the jacket sales that these companies are dealing with are not VLJ and FL members.

I wouldn't bet my life on that figure, you'd be surprised.

A 60 year old jacket looks like its 60 years old no matter what condition its in

I disagree, I can show you quite a few that do not. They are just as wearable today as the day they were made.

ELC A-1

I love mine!

 

[CBI]

great - if you have pics of 60 year olds that look the part, I would like to see. Have yet to have seen one and I used to be an avid collector of originals 20 years ago. Even then, they looked old. Leather just ages no matter what. I even owned an un-issued A-2 - looked cool but old. Mint 60 year old leather. Just not the same.

I asked about sales at HPA and Aero. They know the VLJ and FL bunch. Their numbers were high

 

[Hawk_Eye]

I asked about sales at HPA and Aero. They know the VLJ and FL bunch. Their numbers were high

I would really like to see Aeros and Eastmans a-2 sales numbers since the launch of Goodwear. If the VLJ and FL crowd do constitute a large portion of their sales, then Goodwear might really be hurting their A-2 sales at the moment.