The general decline in standards today

[Atticus Finch]

...marijuana is currently mostly illegal in this country....

Just to clear up the record, marijuana is illegal everywhere in the United States. Even though several states have recently made its possession legal under state law, it is still illegal to possess pursuant to 21 U.S.C. Section 841-844. While it is true that the Feds rarely prosecute simple possession cases, it isn't because they can't. They just typically don't.

AF

 

[Feraud]

Thanks for clarification on legality AF.

 

[sheeplady]

Just to clear up the record, marijuana is illegal everywhere in the United States. Even though several states have recently made its possession legal under state law, it is still illegal to possess pursuant to 21 U.S.C. Section 841-844. While it is true that the Feds rarely prosecute simple possession cases, it isn't because they can't. They just typically don't.

AF

There was a fascinating Frontline episode (I'd recommend looking it up for anyone who is at all interested) on the issues with the legalization of medical cannabis in California. Apparently some counties in California are having trouble with gangs who are trying to partake in the selling of cannabis. Some counties have tried licensing producers, which includes a fee and training. If you're licensed, the county sheriff leaves you alone. However, you're still subject to the federal law, and some licensed producers have had their crops destroyed by federal agents, because, well, the feds can find you.

It was a really fascinating look at the pitfalls and problems with having medical cannabis being legal at the state but not the federal level. ETA: here's the link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-pot-republic/

Personally, I would love it if my state would legalize medical cannabis. I'd be particularly pleased if there was some sort of state regulation of sellers, including verification of products being sold, licensing, and training. And I would love if this money went to support better drug addiction support- particularly supportive living and longer rehab times. (After all, dog groomers in NYS need to be licensed, so I would hope we would license people that are dispensing medicine.) However, knowing how Albany works, I'd pretty sure NYS would mess it up royally within days. The licensing procedure would just be a money maker, we'd have any money made spent on something horrific, like some politician's pet project that benefits only him/her, like a fake non-profit or something.

 

[Matt Crunk]

If you're licensed, the county sheriff leaves you alone. However, you're still subject to the federal law, and some licensed producers have had their crops destroyed by federal agents, because, well, the feds can find you.

Enter the issue of States rights. Constitutionally, the Federal Law has no jurisdiction unless the product is being exported outside the state.

This has become a BIG issue due to the recent push for federal gun control legislation. Many states, including my own, have passed resolutions declaring any such Federal Laws to be null and void before they are even enacted. Many local Sheriffs across the country have even stated that they will go as far as to arrest and prosecute any Federal agents who attempt to enforce those laws inside their counties.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Enter the issue of States rights.

This could be even more fun than discussing individual rights.





I'm kidding!

 

[AtomicEraTom]

It's not a misconception to me. To me, it would be a golden era, as I believe an individual, such as myself would be better off then, than now. I certainly don't think it's a dream land for everyone, but the here and now isn't a dream land for everyone, either. No time and place is perfect for anyone. Some are just better for some than others.

It's a common misconception that non-religious people have no sense of morality. Likewise, it's a common misconception that the "golden era" was necessarily great for everyone.

 

[Zombie_61]

...Personally, I would love it if my state would legalize medical cannabis. I'd be particularly pleased if there was some sort of state regulation of sellers, including verification of products being sold, licensing, and training...

In the regard that you would then have quasi-legal access to a substance that might alleviate some of the negative side effects that result from whatever treatment you're currently receiving, I agree completely. I am absolutely in favor of sincere, unbiased research to determine what (if any) medicinal uses marijuana might yield; I'm not in favor of legalizing it for recreational use.

The problem is that marijuana is currently listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, which means the government considers it to be as dangerous as heroin and LSD and therefore has "no currently accepted medical use in treatment". Anecdotal evidence suggests this is an erroneous conclusion; countless cancer patients have stated their use of marijuana has drastically alleviated the nausea resulting from undergoing chemotherapy treatment, people with glaucoma (and their attending physicians) have observed drastic retardation in the disease's progress with the use of marijuana, and so on. (To be clear, I know marijuana does not cure anything, it merely alleviates detrimental side-effects associated with various diseases/conditions and their treatments in most people.) If the government would change marijuana from a Schedule I controlled substance to a Schedule II controlled substance, it would then be considered as having "currently accepted medical use in treatment, or currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions." This would then open the door to legitimate research and the channeling of necessary funding to perform said research. The conspiracy theorists are convinced the government refuses to do this for any number of reasons--pharmaceutical company lobbyists, racism, corruption in our prison systems, whatever.

It's safe to say I've done a little research, because I have a condition known as Post Laminectomy Syndrome or Failed Back Syndrome. Those are fancy medical terms that mean I had surgery to repair a herniated disk in my lower back but, even though the procedure was successful, I'm still experiencing chronic pain as a result of either the initial defect, the surgery, or both. So far, none of the treatments have had any positive effects, and I can't take the pain medications that would usually be prescribed to people with my condition, so I looked into Medical Marijuana as a possible alternative. After going through the process and receiving my "card" (i.e., my driver's license number on file somewhere within the state bureaucracy; you don't actually get a card) I tried it. And it worked...sort of. I did experience near-complete relief from the pain, but only while I was feeling the psychotropic effects of the weed in my system; the pain returned as soon as those effects wore off. So, since I have no desire to be stoned all day every day, for me Medical Marijuana in it's current state is not a feasible option. And this is one of the reasons I'm in favor of legitimate research--if marijuana does in fact have any medical benefits, perhaps the useful elements can be distilled or extracted while eliminating or diminishing the non-useful elements.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Enter the issue of States rights. Constitutionally, the Federal Law has no jurisdiction unless the product is being exported outside the state.

This has become a BIG issue due to the recent push for federal gun control legislation. Many states, including my own, have passed resolutions declaring any such Federal Laws to be null and void before they are even enacted. Many local Sheriffs across the country have even stated that they will go as far as to arrest and prosecute any Federal agents who attempt to enforce those laws inside their counties.

Wish it was my state. And worse, our sheriff is so anti gun that her very first act upon taking office was to revoke the concealed carry permits issued by her predecessor.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Wish it was my state. And worse, our sheriff is so anti gun that her very first act upon taking office was to revoke the concealed carry permits issued by her predecessor.

Are those not issued and regulated by the state?

 

[sheeplady]

It's safe to say I've done a little research, because I have a condition known as Post Laminectomy Syndrome or Failed Back Syndrome. Those are fancy medical terms that mean I had surgery to repair a herniated disk in my lower back but, even though the procedure was successful, I'm still experiencing chronic pain as a result of either the initial defect, the surgery, or both. So far, none of the treatments have had any positive effects, and I can't take the pain medications that would usually be prescribed to people with my condition, so I looked into Medical Marijuana as a possible alternative. After going through the process and receiving my "card" (i.e., my driver's license number on file somewhere within the state bureaucracy; you don't actually get a card) I tried it. And it worked...sort of. I did experience near-complete relief from the pain, but only while I was feeling the psychotropic effects of the weed in my system; the pain returned as soon as those effects wore off. So, since I have no desire to be stoned all day every day, for me Medical Marijuana in it's current state is not a feasible option. And this is one of the reasons I'm in favor of legitimate research--if marijuana does in fact have any medical benefits, perhaps the useful elements can be distilled or extracted while eliminating or diminishing the non-useful elements.

I'm not up to date on research on cannabis for pain relief, but I'd be curious if the psychotropic effects are attached to the pain relief properties? I know there are a lot of "strains" or "varieties" (for instance, some produce more of a "high" than others, while others have been bred to have different properties. For example, the strains they recommend for appetite and nausea tend to not have as much THC in them). I'm not sure how much you experimented with different varieties (or if you want to, given the side effects), but perhaps a different strain would be helpful? This is where I see licensing and training being crucial- this is essentially a drug and you should get individual guidance on selection based upon your condition.

I'm sorry about your chronic pain.

 

[jamespowers]

It's safe to say I've done a little research, because I have a condition known as Post Laminectomy Syndrome or Failed Back Syndrome. Those are fancy medical terms that mean I had surgery to repair a herniated disk in my lower back but, even though the procedure was successful, I'm still experiencing chronic pain as a result of either the initial defect, the surgery, or both. So far, none of the treatments have had any positive effects, and I can't take the pain medications that would usually be prescribed to people with my condition, so I looked into Medical Marijuana as a possible alternative. After going through the process and receiving my "card" (i.e., my driver's license number on file somewhere within the state bureaucracy; you don't actually get a card) I tried it. And it worked...sort of. I did experience near-complete relief from the pain, but only while I was feeling the psychotropic effects of the weed in my system; the pain returned as soon as those effects wore off. So, since I have no desire to be stoned all day every day, for me Medical Marijuana in it's current state is not a feasible option. And this is one of the reasons I'm in favor of legitimate research--if marijuana does in fact have any medical benefits, perhaps the useful elements can be distilled or extracted while eliminating or diminishing the non-useful elements.

Have your doctor look at the possibility of Marinol for your symptoms. It is in fact a distilled pill form of what worked for you. It worked for my mother. It is FDA approved, slow release and won't make you high all day.

 

[Matt Crunk]

Are those (Concealed Carry Permits) not issued and regulated by the state?

Don't know about other states, but here in Alabama they are issued by your county sheriff, and fees can differ from county to county. However they are valid state-wide and in any other state that is part of the Reciprocal CCP program.

 

[Zombie_61]

I'm not up to date on research on cannabis for pain relief, but I'd be curious if the psychotropic effects are attached to the pain relief properties? I know there are a lot of "strains" or "varieties" (for instance, some produce more of a "high" than others, while others have been bred to have different properties. For example, the strains they recommend for appetite and nausea tend to not have as much THC in them). I'm not sure how much you experimented with different varieties (or if you want to, given the side effects), but perhaps a different strain would be helpful? This is where I see licensing and training being crucial- this is essentially a drug and you should get individual guidance on selection based upon your condition.

I'm sorry about your chronic pain.

You are correct, different strains yield different results and different benefits. I was pleasantly surprised that the young man I spoke with on my first visit to one of the local dispensaries was rather knowledgeable about this and, after some discussion about my condition, was able to recommend a particular strain that has shown to be effective in alleviating neurological pain; I sincerely expected the facility to be staffed by a group of young stoners (which, truth be told, it was, but they were intelligent stoners ). Admittedly, I didn't do a lot of experimenting with the various types because a) weed is weed, and even the least potent strain available will result in some form of "high" effects which, for me, is not a practical solution, and b) the stuff is expensive, and disability pay is pathetically low. I purchased the smallest amount they sold which, in November of 2010, was $80 (if I remember correctly) and I used so little of it that I still have about 3/4 of what I purchased. Getting the "card" is expensive as well so, all things considered, I couldn't really justify the expense for a form of pain relief that wasn't practical for me.

Thank you most sincerely for your sympathy. Without going into a long and boring diatribe about my condition, the surgery was performed in October of 2004 and the current symptoms presented a year later. Medical science hasn't yet reached the point where we understand the human nervous system completely, especially with regards to the spinal column, so my doctors are unable to determine the exact cause of my pain. It's happened to so many patients that the medical community created a name for it, so I suppose I'm in good company. Some days are better than others, and I've learned to deal with it as best I can.

Have your doctor look at the possibility of Marinol for your symptoms. It is in fact a distilled pill form of what worked for you. It worked for my mother. It is FDA approved, slow release and won't make you high all day.

Thank you; I'll discuss this with my doctor the next time I see him. Among the various negative side-effects, the one that concerns me most (from a practical perspective) is the potential for "drowsiness" because this is the reason I'm unable to use prescription-strength pain relievers. I'm extremely sensitive to anything with a sedative nature; even something as innocuous as Ny-Quil knocks me out for 12-14 hours and leaves me "groggy" the next day.

After doing a little Interwebz research on Marinol, I quickly realized this is another example of the FDA and the government being less than honest. Real marijuana has "no currently accepted medical use in treatment", but a synthetic version created in a laboratory does? :suspicious: To paraphrase Shakespeare, "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

 

[sheeplady]

You are correct, different strains yield different results and different benefits. I was pleasantly surprised that the young man I spoke with on my first visit to one of the local dispensaries was rather knowledgeable about this and, after some discussion about my condition, was able to recommend a particular strain that has shown to be effective in alleviating neurological pain; I sincerely expected the facility to be staffed by a group of young stoners (which, truth be told, it was, but they were intelligent stoners ). Admittedly, I didn't do a lot of experimenting with the various types because a) weed is weed, and even the least potent strain available will result in some form of "high" effects which, for me, is not a practical solution, and b) the stuff is expensive, and disability pay is pathetically low. I purchased the smallest amount they sold which, in November of 2010, was $80 (if I remember correctly) and I used so little of it that I still have about 3/4 of what I purchased. Getting the "card" is expensive as well so, all things considered, I couldn't really justify the expense for a form of pain relief that wasn't practical for me.

Thank you most sincerely for your sympathy. Without going into a long and boring diatribe about my condition, the surgery was performed in October of 2004 and the current symptoms presented a year later. Medical science hasn't yet reached the point where we understand the human nervous system completely, especially with regards to the spinal column, so my doctors are unable to determine the exact cause of my pain. It's happened to so many patients that the medical community created a name for it, so I suppose I'm in good company. Some days are better than others, and I've learned to deal with it as best I can.

I'm glad to hear that you had a somewhat good experience with the staff at the dispensary. I'm sorry that it didn't work for you and that it's so expensive. One of my colleagues has severe back issues (he can basically no longer sit, has had a number of failed surgeries) and my aunt-in-law has chronic pain from a bad car accident (she can only walk a few feet at a time). It really sucks to be in that much pain. I'm sorry that happens to anyone.

I do wish there were better pain killers on the market. Everything I've ever taken makes me ill too- typically I feel knocked out or they give me bad headaches that are almost migraine-like. I'm fortunate, though, my pain from my surgery will go away once I completely heal in a year or two.

 

[vintageTink]

Jamespowers, did it alleviate her pain at all? My husband has AS and is always in pain. He sees a pain management doctor and a rheumatologist (currently waiting on a disability hearing) and after 13 years of it is willing to try just about anything.

 

[Zombie_61]

...I do wish there were better pain killers on the market. Everything I've ever taken makes me ill too- typically I feel knocked out or they give me bad headaches that are almost migraine-like...

It's sadly ironic that some medications exacerbate the symptoms they are supposed to alleviate--pain killers causing severe migraine-like headaches, as in your case. Some years ago I saw a television ad for a sleep aid that listed one of the potential side-effects as "sleeplessness". :eusa_doh: lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

After doing a little Interwebz research on Marinol, I quickly realized this is another example of the FDA and the government being less than honest. Real marijuana has "no currently accepted medical use in treatment", but a synthetic version created in a laboratory does? :suspicious: To paraphrase Shakespeare, "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

Not at all. "No currently accepted medical use" of crude marijuana simply means that the substance does not meet the FDA criteria for Safe and Approved medication. Those five criteria are:

1. The drug's chemistry must be known and reproducible.
2. There must be adequate safety studies.
3. There must be adequate and well-controlled studies proving efficacy.
4. The drug must be accepted by qualified experts.
5. The scientific evidence must be widely available.

That's science. When and if a cannabis product can meet all five of those criteria -- it will be certified as safe and approved medication. That's the procedure followed by every medication legally sold in the United States, and there's absolutely no valid reason why an exception should be made for any cannabis product. Smoked crude marijuana doesn't meet those criteria, but Marinol, a synthesized THC extract, does. That's all there is to it.

The alternative to this kind of scientific rigor is a return to the horrors of America before 1906, when all you needed to sell any kind of cheap poison to the gullible, desperate public was a slick-looking label, a buckboard wagon, a banjo player, an Indian chief, and a couple of shills to work the crowd. I don't think any sane person wants that.

 

[jamespowers]

Not at all. "No currently accepted medical use" of crude marijuana simply means that the substance does not meet the FDA criteria for Safe and Approved medication. Those five criteria are:

1. The drug's chemistry must be known and reproducible.
2. There must be adequate safety studies.
3. There must be adequate and well-controlled studies proving efficacy.
4. The drug must be accepted by qualified experts.
5. The scientific evidence must be widely available.

That's science. When and if a cannabis product can meet all five of those criteria -- it will be certified as safe and approved medication. That's the procedure followed by every medication legally sold in the United States, and there's absolutely no valid reason why an exception should be made for any cannabis product. Smoked crude marijuana doesn't meet those criteria, but Marinol, a synthesized THC extract, does. That's all there is to it.

Exactly! Reproducible being one of the most import---in other words---consistent.

 

[jamespowers]

Jamespowers, did it alleviate her pain at all? My husband has AS and is always in pain. He sees a pain management doctor and a rheumatologist (currently waiting on a disability hearing) and after 13 years of it is willing to try just about anything.

Yes, it did. If the doctor is willing to write a prescription then he can certainly try it without worrying about being arrested.

 

[jamespowers]

Thank you; I'll discuss this with my doctor the next time I see him. Among the various negative side-effects, the one that concerns me most (from a practical perspective) is the potential for "drowsiness" because this is the reason I'm unable to use prescription-strength pain relievers. I'm extremely sensitive to anything with a sedative nature; even something as innocuous as Ny-Quil knocks me out for 12-14 hours and leaves me "groggy" the next day.

See what the doctor says in regard to that side effect. I don't remember that being a problem but each person is different....