The general decline in standards today

[V.C. Brunswick]

A Kindle wouldn't do me much good as I read mainly nonfiction (history mainly) and many of the books I read and, indeed, the ones I look for are not the kind that would probably be available on Kindle.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's a big difference between the decline of the British empire and a descent into some sort of Sub-Saharan Africa style warlord anarchy.

There are neighborhoods today where that difference isn't as big as you think.

 

[Puzzicato]

Well, how many books one could buy is based upon the cost of the books you read. The kindle version of one book I'd like to read is $4.99, the "hardcopy" version is over $100. I've got 10 or so of these books on my list, all of which the kindle version is much cheaper. The Kindle keeps looking more and more appealing. (Plus not having to haul 10 hardcover books with me for a week's travel.)

A lot of the situations you describe I was taught that you don't read books in. If my father caught me reading a book in the bathtub or bathroom (where it could get water damaged) as a child, I would have had my hide tanned. It was the same level of offense as cracking a book's spine or writing in a book with ink. Dropping a book on the ground and soiling it was also not acceptable behavior- accidental or not- as one needs to be careful with books. I was raised that book destruction was a sign of a lack of respect.

To this day I'm still horrified when I open a library book and someone wrote in it in ink, it just hits me as so wrong to write in a book with a pen (regardless of the fact that you shouldn't write in books you don't own, an even bigger offense).

I never write in other people's books in ink, but I do it to my own - my mother and grandfather do too. We all put corrections and references in the margins.

 

[MikeBravo]

There are neighborhoods today where that difference isn't as big as you think.

mmmmm valid point. Then again, hasn't that always been the way?

 

[LizzieMaine]

mmmmm valid point. Then again, hasn't that always been the way?

The difference is that there are a lot more places like that than there ever were before -- it's becoming common where it was once uncommon. Cliche though it may sound, I grew up in a time and place where you honestly didn't have to lock your house at night. Now I bolt the doors and sleep with a pistol in my nightstand.

A few weeks ago, while leaving work around 10 at night, I saw two drug-crazed lunatics beat an animal to death in the middle of the street. Last winter, exactly one block away from where I live, a man was beaten senseless in his own living room by a drug-crazed thug who apparently just picked him out at random. The house next door to me was formerly occupied by a drug-dealing nest which was only shut down when one of the customers was carried out feet first in a bag.

This isn't the inner city. This is a small town of less than 7000 people. This is insanity. If this isn't a collapsing civilization, I don't know what one would be.

 

[Red Diabla]

The difference is that there are a lot more places like that than there ever were before -- it's becoming common where it was once uncommon. Cliche though it may sound, I grew up in a time and place where you honestly didn't have to lock your house at night. Now I bolt the doors and sleep with a pistol in my nightstand.

A few weeks ago, while leaving work around 10 at night, I saw two drug-crazed lunatics beat an animal to death in the middle of the street. Last winter, exactly one block away from where I live, a man was beaten senseless in his own living room by a drug-crazed thug who apparently just picked him out at random. The house next door to me was formerly occupied by a drug-dealing nest which was only shut down when one of the customers was carried out feet first in a bag.

This isn't the inner city. This is a small town of less than 7000 people. This is insanity. If this isn't a collapsing civilization, I don't know what one would be.

It sounds like meth use.

Which, along with crack, has got to be one of the worst things to have happened to everyday society. Not only does crime rates go up because the people who are on those drugs become so self-obsessed that they forget so many things about being human, but especially with meth, it changes the brain chemistry for the negative permanently. It's hard to kick and hard to stay away from for good. Horrible, HORRIBLE stuff.

RD

 

[sheeplady]

It sounds like meth use.
RD

Our local press has been running info on all the major news channels on how to spot if your neighbor has a meth lab. Lots of garbage, cardboard over the windows, and a bad smell (like cat urine) being the three big signs of a meth lab next door.

It's all very sad, especially sad that it's so widespread.

 

[LizzieMaine]

We have a gigantic meth problem here -- that's what they were doing in the house next door to me -- and it doesn't help that the person running the local methadone clinic (now shut down) was using it as a front for dealing crack. The new thing, though, is "bath salts," which is a street name for some horrendous poison sold at head shops that, so far, remains legal. It's been sweeping the state, and it's terrifying how bloody stupid people are to use such garbage, and how utterly impotent the police are in putting a stop to it.

Before someone raises the point of "oh, the twenties were rough too, remember Prohibition," let me say this. I had an uncle who was a bootlegger during Prohibition -- he drove a taxicab as a front for running booze down from Canada, and he made a pile of money at it. But Maine wasn't Chicago. You didn't have random horrific violence in the streets as a daily thing like we're getting here now. Something profound has shifted in the balance of the universe, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I hate when people compare drugs abuse and the involved issues to Prohibition. My Great-Grandfather was a bootlegger, who ran a speakeasy, and drove for a trucking company and drove a cab as a front. He didn't destroy his mind, he wasn't left permanently damaged. The results of drug abuse and all the related crime is not the same.

I know some people that try to convince me that drug use is okay. They always tell me "You drink beer, that's worse" Beer doesn't make me lazy, good-for-nothing, or a different person than I am. Maybe if I was an alcoholic, but I just have one or two with supper.

The rising number of people who weren't raised right, and who totally lack any form or morals or ethics, is what's letting all of this happen.

We have a gigantic meth problem here -- that's what they were doing in the house next door to me -- and it doesn't help that the person running the local methadone clinic (now shut down) was using it as a front for dealing crack. The new thing, though, is "bath salts," which is a street name for some horrendous poison sold at head shops that, so far, remains legal. It's been sweeping the state, and it's terrifying how bloody stupid people are to use such garbage, and how utterly impotent the police are in putting a stop to it.

Before someone raises the point of "oh, the twenties were rough too, remember Prohibition," let me say this. I had an uncle who was a bootlegger during Prohibition -- he drove a taxicab as a front for running booze down from Canada, and he made a pile of money at it. But Maine wasn't Chicago. You didn't have random horrific violence in the streets as a daily thing like we're getting here now. Something profound has shifted in the balance of the universe, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[scooter]

I believe a significant number of factors are at play.New, more potent drugs are certainly an issue, and another contributing factor is the ease with which we can access information. In other words, we are made aware of incidents much more readily now. Something happens in Maine and in minutes, I am aware of it in Arizona.

My personal belief is that we started down this slippery slope with our propensity to try and legislate civility. There was a time in this country when a man could expect to pay a price for insulting a lady. I'm old enough to remember these days. It simply wasn't tolerated and any gentleman in the area would enforce this. Today, should someone insult my wife, and should I administer corrective action; he walks away smiling and I GO TO JAIL! Ridiculous! Kids are being shot in our schools because administrators are afraid to confront the troublemakers, and would rather suspend everyone involved in an altercation than root out the real problem and deal with it. Once upon a time, evil-doers were dealt with, now assailant and victim are treated the same, until something blows. We have somehow come to the conclusion that we can legislate ourselves into civility and we are paying price for our foolishness.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As I say, barbarism.

 

[mercuryfelt76]

On the subject of legislating ourselves back to civilized societies: the problem is that things were different in the past because people believed in something and felt proud to defend what they cared about. They loved their neighbourhood and wanted the best for it, and most people believed in it enough to act. Nowadays, nobody wants to get involved and nobody defends people who do. Nobody seems to be proud of their neighbourhood and they don't feel connected to their fellow humans enough to treat them like kin. If you believe in it, it IS sincere and people get pleasure from respectful conduct. People of previoug generations don't claim to like manners because they're forced or legislated to but because it's a more pleasant life. If people actually raised their kids with a sense of respect for others we wouldn't need to legislate, it would be ingrained and would be culturally acceptable not just lawfully.

 

[sheeplady]

Before someone raises the point of "oh, the twenties were rough too, remember Prohibition," let me say this. I had an uncle who was a bootlegger during Prohibition -- he drove a taxicab as a front for running booze down from Canada, and he made a pile of money at it. But Maine wasn't Chicago.

A big difference between meth and alcohol is that it is very easy to use alcohol in moderation. I don't think you can use meth in moderation at all.

 

[SGT Rocket]

The USA may be too big to fully collapse, but imagine all the electrics being knocked out by a solar flare. There's no way you could supply the entire population with food, let alone clean drinking water or any modern conveniences without electric power. IS that a decline or is that just like putting a house-broken cat in the wild. That's not decline just an infrastructure dependency - but isn't that what we wanted when we invented technology? I'm not sure apocalypse is the same as living in an uncaring society due to everyone being too concerned with their own human rights to want to help each other out.

Part of the problem today, is that everyone is concerned with their rights, and don't care at all about their responsibilities. It's funny... It seems to me that the more people don't take care of their neighbors, relatives, friends, etc... the less they want too. People quit taking care of each other when the government takes that responsibility away from them.

There is a sort of attitude among many people in the west that: "I don't need to help my parents out because they have a pension and social security. Why should I even see them after the way they treated me as a child; I have no guilt because they have a home health-care aid that visits them."

The society we have created, here in the West, is all about:
1. worshiping youth
2. shirking responsibility when ever you can
3. using your "right" to be offended to just offend other people
4. I could go on and on and on.

Plus the government is always trying to tell individuals what to do. Weather it's discouraging you from buying sodas wish sugar with telling you you can't even smoke in your home if you have children.

I don't think civilization is declining, it's just changing...

It's funny, in the U.S. our motto is: E pluribus unum--- out of many, one.

But, since the 1960's, it's like, every one is more proud to be from somewhere else than to be an American. WTF is up with that? There seems to be this idea being taught in a lot of U.S. universities, at least the one I went to last semester, that every thing the U.S. does is "bad" and out of selfish interest. Or there is some comspiracy from one political party or the other... Sure, the U.S. makes A LOT of mistakes, but is it doing it intentionally? Look, I've worked for two state governments here in the U.S. and the U.S. federal government. The government just isn't that competent.

All values to continue what ever type of civilization we want, starts in the home. Most parents these days give up their *responsibility* of parenting to the T.V. and their children's peers.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

VERY good post..SGT Rocket..!!
HD

...although..I think that many of the more recent changes have added significantly to a downward decline..

 

[SGT Rocket]

Thanks HD, I just kind of flew off the handle there.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks HD, I just kind of flew off the handle there.

Well..you managed to do it well...in a 'down to earth' manner that made good sense to me...

 

[Gregg Axley]

I heard a song in my head Sgt Rocket when I read that.
It was Stars and Stripes Forever.
Gov't employee here as well.
Years ago the competent people used to run the gov't, and the incompetent ones used to take the credit. Now it seems we just have the incompetents in vast number. It's not only Federal, it's local too....
I could go on and on, but I don't want to type that much, nor start off my long weekend depressed. LOL

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't think you can say it's a manifestation of government. The rot is *everywhere,* in the private sector as well as the public. Every office, every business, every human institution is filled with people who think doing a half-baked job is good enough as long as they can squeeze an extra buck out of it. And we see the result in shoddy merchandise, indifferent service and the exaltation of mediocrity. What it really is, more than anything else, is the Cult Of The Individual run rampant. "As long as I get mine, the hell with you."

 

[Fletch]

That's not in doubt. What rankles me is the people who respond to that state of affairs by going around loaded for bear - assuming everyone else they encounter is going to be a mediocre buck-squeezing cultist-of-the-individual, taking anyone down a peg who shows any sign of self-regard, positive or not, and then feeling they rank higher on the human scale for it.

Oh, and the people who rank them higher for it.