The general decline in standards today

[ChiTownScion]

Good old San Antonio, home of my wife's family. Spent 20 years there, one weekend.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Speaking of declining standards, what is it with the American tendency to turn battlefields into tourist traps? I can understand a museum or an educational facility, but the idea of camera-snapping vacationers wandering around striking poses and eating hot dogs, and buying bumper stickers and t-shirts and key chains and other shoddy trinkets has always left me ice cold.

Even the Russians are getting in on the act now -- you can get an all-inclusive three day tour of Stalingrad, including restaurant vouchers for "Russian, Cossack, Ukrainian, Italian, German, Indian or Tatar cuisine." What, no McDonaldski?

 

[dh66]

Speaking of declining standards, what is it with the American tendency to turn battlefields into tourist traps? I can understand a museum or an educational facility, but the idea of camera-snapping vacationers wandering around striking poses and eating hot dogs, and buying bumper stickers and t-shirts and key chains and other shoddy trinkets has always left me ice cold.

Even the Russians are getting in on the act now -- you can get an all-inclusive three day tour of Stalingrad, including restaurant vouchers for "Russian, Cossack, Ukrainian, Italian, German, Indian or Tatar cuisine." What, no McDonaldski?

All the 'McDonaldskis' were shuttered in a tit-for-tat response to all the western sanctions imposes after all the shenanigans in Ukraine.

Otherwise I'm sure they'd be in on the action.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Speaking of declining standards, what is it with the American tendency to turn battlefields into tourist traps? I can understand a museum or an educational facility, but the idea of camera-snapping vacationers wandering around striking poses and eating hot dogs, and buying bumper stickers and t-shirts and key chains and other shoddy trinkets has always left me ice cold.

It depends upon the battlefield and the adjoining town. Gettysburg has always been notorious: the "General Pickett Buffet" always rankled me. But they finally did bring down that ugly observation tower a few years ago when the land was purchased by the NPS. The battlefield itself is free from commercial intrusion- as is any owned by the National Park Service.

And Sharpsburg, Maryland is still relatively free of any commercial hoopla that would detract from a visit to Antietam. In many areas (northern Virginia and the sites of the various battles of the Atlanta Campaign, for example), suburban sprawl have destroyed more battlefield sites than cheesy tourist gimmicks.

I gain more spiritual enrichment from walking a Civil War battlefield than listening to a thousand sermons from some pulpit screamer could ever accord me. Coming from Maine as you do, I'd especially recommend that, one day, you witness a sunset on a clear autumn day from Little Round Top, Gettysburg: what was accomplished there on July 2, 1863, by a depleted Maine regiment, out of ammunition and under the command of a college professor turned lieutenant colonel, will live in the annals of American history as much as Valley Forge or Omaha Beach. The "ghost tours" and t shirt shops in town can't diminish that experience one iota.

 

[pawineguy]

Speaking of declining standards, what is it with the American tendency to turn battlefields into tourist traps? I can understand a museum or an educational facility, but the idea of camera-snapping vacationers wandering around striking poses and eating hot dogs, and buying bumper stickers and t-shirts and key chains and other shoddy trinkets has always left me ice cold.

It depends upon the battlefield and the adjoining town. Gettysburg has always been notorious: the "General Pickett Buffet" always rankled me. But they finally did bring down that ugly observation tower a few years ago when the land was purchased by the NPS. The battlefield itself is free from commercial intrusion- as is any owned by the National Park Service.

And Sharpsburg, Maryland is still relatively free of any commercial hoopla that would detract from a visit to Antietam. In many areas (northern Virginia and the sites of the various battles of the Atlanta Campaign, for example), suburban sprawl have destroyed more battlefield sites than cheesy tourist gimmicks.

I gain more spiritual enrichment from walking a Civil War battlefield than listening to a thousand sermons from some pulpit scream could ever afford me. Coming from Maine as you do, I'd especially recommend that, one day, you witness a sunset on a clear autumn day from Little Round Top, Gettysburg: what was accomplished there on July 2, 1863, by a depleted Maine regiment, out of ammunition and under the command of a college professor turned lieutenant colonel, will live in the annals of American history as much as Valley Forge or Omaha Beach. The "ghost tours" and t shirt shops in town can't diminish that experience one iota.

+1, I get chills at Gettysburg, and mostly from the events on Little Round Top. That one action potentially changed the course of the war, certainly helping to shorten it. I do believe that by Gettysburg, Chamberlain was a newly minted full Colonel. His life was certainly one of the greatest lived of his generation, and if it wasn't true it would be too unbelievable as fiction.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

All the 'McDonaldskis' were shuttered in a tit-for-tat response to all the western sanctions imposes after all the shenanigans in Ukraine.

Otherwise I'm sure they'd be in on the action.

Я люблю это*

*I'm Lovin' It

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'd hope at least he'd be offended by the German restaurant.

 

[2jakes]

Good old San Antonio, home of my wife's family. Spent 20 years there, one weekend.

I haven't been down there in years. About the only thing that I remember besides
the "obvious"...is the Majestic theater which is still there.
The original Woolworth's, Neisner's, Joske's & restaurants have all vanished. Taken over by the fast-food
chains, tourist traps & parking lots.

 

[Harp]

+1, I get chills at Gettysburg, and mostly from the events on Little Round Top. That one action potentially changed the course of the war, certainly helping to shorten it. I do believe that by Gettysburg, Chamberlain was a newly minted full Colonel. His life was certainly one of the greatest lived of his generation, and if it wasn't true it would be too unbelievable as fiction.

I'd hope at least he'd be offended by the German restaurant.

Chamberlain was a splendid officer, the model of the citizen-soldier. :eusa_clap

__________________

Naturlich, aber Ich glaube nicht.

 

[Stearmen]

That was the U.S. Army added the parapet in the 1850s.

Yes, but the Texan did the demolition on the rest of the Alamo, and almost steam rolled the rest. We like to think that past generations were more sympathetic to old buildings, but that is actually a pretty new concept. I guise, we should be glad that any of it survived!

 

[Stearmen]

Speaking of declining standards, what is it with the American tendency to turn battlefields into tourist traps? I can understand a museum or an educational facility, but the idea of camera-snapping vacationers wandering around striking poses and eating hot dogs, and buying bumper stickers and t-shirts and key chains and other shoddy trinkets has always left me ice cold.

It depends upon the battlefield and the adjoining town. Gettysburg has always been notorious: the "General Pickett Buffet" always rankled me. But they finally did bring down that ugly observation tower a few years ago when the land was purchased by the NPS. The battlefield itself is free from commercial intrusion- as is any owned by the National Park Service.

And Sharpsburg, Maryland is still relatively free of any commercial hoopla that would detract from a visit to Antietam. In many areas (northern Virginia and the sites of the various battles of the Atlanta Campaign, for example), suburban sprawl have destroyed more battlefield sites than cheesy tourist gimmicks.

I gain more spiritual enrichment from walking a Civil War battlefield than listening to a thousand sermons from some pulpit screamer could ever accord me. Coming from Maine as you do, I'd especially recommend that, one day, you witness a sunset on a clear autumn day from Little Round Top, Gettysburg: what was accomplished there on July 2, 1863, by a depleted Maine regiment, out of ammunition and under the command of a college professor turned lieutenant colonel, will live in the annals of American history as much as Valley Forge or Omaha Beach. The "ghost tours" and t shirt shops in town can't diminish that experience one iota.

As much as every one here hates the 60s, that is when preservation really took off. I can understand that it was hard to preserve Revolutionary battle fields, the towns had to grow, but, by the 1950s, you would think they would know! I suppose, the WWII Veterans were tired of war, so they had little sympathy for battle fields, better to look at new houses for families!

 

[Stearmen]

Speaking of the decline of civilization! I was in line at a convenience store behind a pretty big younger man, when this little skinny old man wearing droopy pants, gold chains and backwards hat started yelling at the young guy, telling him not to call him a liar, all the time waving his hands like a Hip Hop teenager. I am sure the guy was probably younger then me, even though he looked to be 90. I hope he was just off his meds, we were all standing around dumbfounded and laughing after he left. He drove by me slow and flipped me off, I laughed at him, which made him madder, I could not hold it in any longer, I yelled to him, grow up!

 

[ChiTownScion]

As much as every one here hates the 60s, that is when preservation really took off. I can understand that it was hard to preserve Revolutionary battle fields, the towns had to grow, but, by the 1950s, you would think they would know! I suppose, the WWII Veterans were tired of war, so they had little sympathy for battle fields, better to look at new houses for families!

The centennial certainly did rekindle a lot of interest in the Civil War and the modern battlefield preservation movement. The effort to preserve continues through the efforts of such groups as the Civil War Trust and the Association for the Preservation of Civil War Sites. They've done extraordinary work, not only through the outright acquisition of land, but in creating conservation easements where a local owner wants to retain ownership but is sympathetic to the need of preserving the land from development.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Yes, but the Texan did the demolition on the rest of the Alamo, and almost steam rolled the rest. We like to think that past generations were more sympathetic to old buildings, but that is actually a pretty new concept. I guise, we should be glad that any of it survived!

Well, much of the compound was demolished by the Mexican Army shortly after the famous battle. Santa Anna didn't want the Texans to be able to use it as a fort again, should they regain control.

But you bring up a good point about old buildings and historical sites. Obviously, the people of the time didn't think of it as historical, it was just an old stone mission with no roof that was falling apart. It wasn't until the 20th Century that people started to think of it as important historically and preservation efforts began. I'm sure it was that way with many sites, and there are many buildings that didn't survive that we'd love to still have around today.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The problem with preservation is that there has to be a use for the building once it's preserved. A lot of historic structures get demolished simply because nobody can think of any practical use for them once they've lost their primary function. We had a glorious granite post office in the middle of town here, built in 1873, that people dearly loved. But the Government decided it was too small and built a new post office/Federal building across the street. So what do you do with a nineteenth-century three-story granite building in 1970? You tear it down for a parking lot, of course.

This still goes on today. Tiger Stadium in Detroit stood abandoned for ten years while people argued about what to do with it, and it finally got torn down, leaving nothing behind but a flagpole and a big vacant lot, and people are still debating what to do with it.

 

[HudsonHawk]

This still goes on today. Tiger Stadium in Detroit stood abandoned for ten years while people argued about what to do with it, and it finally got torn down, leaving nothing behind but a flagpole and a big vacant lot, and people are still debating what to do with it.

The Astrodome in Houston has been sitting there empty for 15 years now, and the county refuses to do anything with it. Some people want it preserved (because a building built in 1965 is a major historical landmark, apparently), but no one can figure out what to do with it or wants to pay for it. It's also going to cost money to tear it down, and nobody want to pay for that either. So it sits there and rots. It's a rat-infested crumbling pile of rubble, and if people really cared about it, they'd let it die an honorable death. But they don't. So it rots in place.

 

[LizzieMaine]

They ought to just part it out and sell it to the Mexican League, like they did with Colt Stadium.

 

[Harp]

This still goes on today. Tiger Stadium in Detroit stood abandoned for ten years while people argued about what to do with it, and it finally got torn down, leaving nothing behind but a flagpole and a big vacant lot, and people are still debating what to do with it.

People are debating what to do with Detroit.

 

[jamespowers]

The Astrodome in Houston has been sitting there empty for 15 years now, and the county refuses to do anything with it. Some people want it preserved (because a building built in 1965 is a major historical landmark, apparently), but no one can figure out what to do with it or wants to pay for it. It's also going to cost money to tear it down, and nobody want to pay for that either. So it sits there and rots. It's a rat-infested crumbling pile of rubble, and if people really cared about it, they'd let it die an honorable death. But they don't. So it rots in place.

Kind of like the Roman Colosseum did for a thousand years as earthquakes damaged it and thieves stole the stone from it. It still stands----in the middle of traffic. lol lol

 

[jamespowers]

People are debating what to do with Detroit.

It can't be that bad---oh wait: