The general decline in standards today

[sheeplady]

I find it amusing that you often hear the same things from the same people:
"These young people! They don't even want to move out of their parent's basement!"
"These young people! They expect to have a job that can support themselves!"
Which are contradictory...

I think everyone should be able to support themselves with a full time job. I believe that the working class should be able to support themselves and their families at a decent level. I believe that every child should be given every opportunity to finish public school and not be forced out to work at age 16. I believe no one should go hungry, particularly not children or working adults. I believe everyone should have healthcare attached to a job or not. I don't think anyone should live in homes that should be condemned, in their cars, or on the street. I also don't believe that people should have to live in constant fear that they are a single event- getting sick and missing work, for instance- from losing what little they have.

I make no excuses for feeling that people should be given opportunities in life. Every adult who is working full time should be able to put a roof over their head, food on their table, and not live in constant fear. I think they are entitled to be sheltered, fed, have their health taken care of, have a public education, and feel reasonably secure. I think that the acceptability of people going hungry, un-sheltered, un-educated, and in unstable jobs is disgusting. I think having access to food, shelter, and education are basic human rights.

 

[sheeplady]

Just perspective.

So, for perspective:
1. What's your age?
2. What's your education level?
3. Are your parents deceased? What age were you when they died?
4. Have you ever been homeless?
5. Have you ever been in such a financial state you've considered bankruptcy?

Since you keep demanding that another person share their age (and they've already volunteered most of the information above), how about you share your personal information so we can understand your perspective as well?

 

[jamespowers]

You need a degree in something useful. What have you got?

A degree in Corporate Finance with a minor in Economics. Totally useless. :rofl:

 

[scottyrocks]

Schooling is an interesting situation, at least in America. These are generalizations. I am speaking from observations in my own neck of the woods - the NYC metro area.

Children from families with higher incomes do better because a) the family lives well, b) the child sees the value and normalcy of work, education, and how they relate, c) others in their social circle experience the same. They do better in school, and there is money for more resources such as tutoring, if needed. In fact, tutoring for the SATs is almost mandatory around here. It is so popular that it part of the landscape that most teens accept if they are in that successful frame of mind to begin with. Yes, there are outliers, as there are in every situation.

Contrarily, children from low(er) income neighborhoods do less well. Most of the neighborhood either doesn't value education, or does, but people's behaviors send a contrary message. Kids look up to the role models they see the most - the unemployed, low-pantsed street thug (or street thug look). Lots of unemployment. Lots of 'weird' behavior on the street in front of the bodega by people who, in other places, would be at work. Lots of blame pinned on everyone else after they've gone through, and effed up in, school, probably based on that they saw growing up. 'The world owes me!' It's a vicious cycle.

Unfortunately, this attitude has spread up through the social classes, as well. There are factors for this, but the main one, imo, is beyond the scope and desirability of this forum.

And then there's schooling itself. We have public, private, and now charter. They are always compared, but they all have different sets of rules and circumstances.

Who goes to private schools? The well-off, generally. And there are expectations that are generally lived up to, if a private school is to stay in business. Everyone, including the child, knows what's what.

Charter schools are public schools but with important differences. They can cap enrollment. Parents who send their kids there know that there are tests to get in, and that certain behavioral and performance standards must be met or they can be released. And where do they go when they are released?

They go back to a public school, which are quickly becoming the dumping grounds for the lowest performing, for whatever reason - ability, background, behavior, etc.

Education is a complex system that cannot be slapped down with one blanket statement, as it so often is these days. Much of the reason for the issues it faces today are 'uncomfortable' to talk about in today's PC society where telling the truth gets one branded any number of things depending on who is listening.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

A degree in Corporate Finance with a minor in Economics. Totally useless. :rofl:

Economics: The Dismal Science.

 

[Matt Crunk]

I don't know if this has been touched on in this thread or not, but one thing that's a sure sign of our times that I don't believe existed (nor was there much need for it) in the Golden Era, was tamper-proof mechanisms on just about all food, beverages, and over-the-counter medications.

 

[jamespowers]

Economics: The Dismal Science.

Tell me what you want the numbers to say and I will make them say it.

 

[vitanola]

Tell me what you want the numbers to say and I will make them say it.

A veritable numeric Torquemada!

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Never took a class in Economics, Econ 101 was always full. I never thought of it as a Science with a correct answer. Accounting yes, Economics nope.

later y'all

 

[HudsonHawk]

So, for perspective:
1. What's your age?
2. What's your education level?
3. Are your parents deceased? What age were you when they died?
4. Have you ever been homeless?
5. Have you ever been in such a financial state you've considered bankruptcy?

Since you keep demanding that another person share their age (and they've already volunteered most of the information above), how about you share your personal information so we can understand your perspective as well?

I haven't demanded anything, so get off your high horse. I asked a question in response to a comment put out for discussion. But since you asked (though I'm certain you don't really care):

1. I'm 46
2. I have a Master's Degree
3. Both of my parents are still living
4. Yes, I've been homeless
5. Yes, I been completely destitute to the point where I couldn't buy food and was not able to eat everyday.

 

[Sylvesterd]

It is hard to know how people thought or said years ago in private. Today we have Facebook and blogs such as this that will give future generations closer look at our thoughts and ideas.

However, a few things to ponder.

Previous generations had to deal with two world wars and other military conflict with mandatory military service.

Food was always that plentiful.

Medical care didn't always help. Consider Spanish flu of 1918

We don't have to deal with these things today but it seems people 35 still complain about their lives




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[Sylvesterd]

I meant to say in previous post that food wasn't always that plentiful as it is today


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[sheeplady]

I haven't demanded anything, so get off your high horse. I asked a question in response to a comment put out for discussion. But since you asked (though I'm certain you don't really care):

1. I'm 46
2. I have a Master's Degree
3. Both of my parents are still living
4. Yes, I've been homeless
5. Yes, I been completely destitute to the point where I couldn't buy food and was not able to eat everyday.

Given your background, do you not have sympathy for people who are facing similar circumstances that you once did and therefore cannot eat or have shelter? Or do you believe that food and shelter are not basic rights? Why have you stated that no one is entitled to having those basic things- i.e. get someplace in life/ be self-supporting if they are under 40?

Really, it's sounds like you're taking a basic statement- someone being able to support themselves- and thinking that people are entitled to want to be able to do that under 40. If you have children, I certainly hope you haven't raised them to believe that they cannot support themselves before age 40 and aren't planning on supporting them until then. Really, you know nothing of someone's circumstances and are taking a simple statement that they are having difficulty supporting themselves and turning it into an entitled attitude just because they haven't reached an arbitrary age.

If somebody at age 41 was complaining about not being able to put food on their table or shelter over their head, is it less entitled than someone saying that at age 39?

ETA: I am very glad to hear that you are a success story given your background. Don't ever assume someone doesn't care- I am sure that when you were homeless, hungry, and down and out- lots of people surprised you with how much they cared. And I am sure, given your background, you must be extremely charitable and kind with your success. Remember to always put your money to charity first- then your bills. There are always people who need it much more than you.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Given your background, do you not have sympathy for people who are facing similar circumstances that you once did and therefore cannot eat or have shelter? Or do you believe that food and shelter are not basic rights? Why have you stated that no one is entitled to having those basic things- i.e. get someplace in life/ be self-supporting if they are under 40?

Really, it's sounds like you're taking a basic statement- someone being able to support themselves- and thinking that people are entitled to want to be able to do that under 40. If you have children, I certainly hope you haven't raised them to believe that they cannot support themselves before age 40 and aren't planning on supporting them until then. Really, you know nothing of someone's circumstances and are taking a simple statement that they are having difficulty supporting themselves and turning it into an entitled attitude just because they haven't reached an arbitrary age.

If somebody at age 41 was complaining about not being able to put food on their table or shelter over their head, is it less entitled than someone saying that at age 39?

ETA: I am very glad to hear that you are a success story given your background. Don't ever assume someone doesn't care- I am sure that when you were homeless, hungry, and down and out- lots of people surprised you with how much they cared. And I am sure, given your background, you must be extremely charitable and kind with your success. Remember to always put your money to charity first- then your bills. There are always people who need it much more than you.

Much to address later, but I think you fundamentally misunderstand my comments. It's not that people shouldn't be able to support themselves, it's about tempering expectations. I'll respond more later.

 

[vintageTink]

I'm in that 'missing a lot of family events' crowd. If there's work available for me, you can bet I'm at work. I go in early, stay late, come in on the weekends. Money is good and the more I have the better of a life that I can build for myself.

Maybe I should send my sister-in-law your way.

I don't know why... I guess it's difficult for me.
We sat down in the pub, I ordered and my friend said "Nothing, thank you"
What to do?
I buy her a drink - what about the next time.. or the next one? [huh]


My shifts starts at 7:00 AM.
I'm with you on the early rising - however, I live 15 minutes on foot away from my workplace. The benefit of life in a small town.


Here, you've mentioned one of my greatest fears. This new age of "work-till-you-drop" has produced the Bosses with Phones - and no sense of personal time of their employees. :doh:

:eusa_clap

 

[Matt Crunk]

No one is "entitled" to anything except the freedom to tend to their own needs. But in a country that's as prosperous as the United States likes to claim to be: food, shelter, and basic health care should be available to anyone who needs it.

1. I'm 47
2. I've had some college, but no degree.
3. My father passed when I was 21; My mother when I was 35.
4. Never been homeless, but have sometimes been only a paycheck or two away.
5. I have at times been "rolling pennies for ramen noodles" broke.

 

[jamespowers]

A veritable numeric Torquemada!

The Grand Inquisitor of Economics.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Care to elaborate?

Maybe I should send my sister-in-law your way.

I'm hoping that if I work hard now, I can retire early enough to actually enjoy my retirement, not spend it in a home.

Tom,
Just make sure you don't miss out on everyday life while your acquiring money for "someday" life.

 

[GHT]

I'm in that 'missing a lot of family events' crowd. If there's work available for me, you can bet I'm at work. I go in early, stay late, come in on the weekends. Money is good and the more I have the better of a life that I can build for myself.

Tom, at 22, I was doing exactly the same. Graduated with a business degree at 21, and by 22 I was on the management greasy pole. I worked every available hour, chased every single pound. And did so, for twenty years. It took the death of someone very close to realise that work and money are not the ultimate goals in life.

Along with my wife, who was grieving as much as me, we discovered a social life, friends, good people. Those that cared for you and weren't phased by your material possessions, the money you earned or your status in society.

With age comes experience, and as I have said to you before, I really do wish you well, but do temper your willingness to work, with those who love you. If you are good at what you do, people and customers will accept no for an answer. As in: "No, I am not working on Sunday, but if you come back on Monday....... People only go elsewhere when the service level is poor, most folks that I know, prefer to wait and get the best.

Answer me this, have you ever seen, on a headstone in a cemetery, "I wished I had spent more time in the office." ?

By the way, i am loving the sub thread going between VC & James.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I figure it's better to do it now, than be doing it like some of the guys at work are now, in their fifties. I wanna be slowing down by then.

I have my parents and siblings, but outside that most of my family and me are pretty distant from one-another. It makes working so much a lot easier, especially considering how much my family works, as well. My father and brother run a business, my mom works more hours at the plant than I do and my sister works full time and has a newborn.

I did have a social life once-upon-a-time, but all my friends have found special someones and settled down. That kinda killed that off and just left more time to work.

Tom, at 22, I was doing exactly the same. Graduated with a business degree at 21, and by 22 I was on the management greasy pole. I worked every available hour, chased every single pound. And did so, for twenty years. It took the death of someone very close to realise that work and money are not the ultimate goals in life.

Along with my wife, who was grieving as much as me, we discovered a social life, friends, good people. Those that cared for you and weren't phased by your material possessions, the money you earned or your status in society.

With age comes experience, and as I have said to you before, I really do wish you well, but do temper your willingness to work, with those who love you. If you are good at what you do, people and customers will accept no for an answer. As in: "No, I am not working on Sunday, but if you come back on Monday....... People only go elsewhere when the service level is poor, most folks that I know, prefer to wait and get the best.

Answer me this, have you ever seen, on a headstone in a cemetery, "I wished I had spent more time in the office." ?