The general decline in standards today

[bburtner@moran]

Sorry about your friend LizzieMaine,but it has and alway`s will be an evil world we live in that`s just a fact,it was no better 50 or 500 years ago!

 

[LizzieMaine]

All I can say is that in the world I was born into, the odds against an intelligent small-town girl destroying herself with drugs were far, far greater than they are today. Think about it.

 

[sheeplady]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it isn’t pot or coke or any of the street drugs that’s the problem right now. It is prescription drugs.

Its ironic and sad. Some of the most vocal antidrug advocates I know don’t think twice about what’s in their bathroom medicine cabinets. They come home and immediately drop fifteen or twenty mg of oxycontin for their “back pain”. Then they follow up with a big ol’ highball or two while they watch the evening news. And they cry and whine and moan…and blame everyone and his cat…when precious Junior thinks its cool to get high.

AF

If they're dropping that many milligrams and are functional, they've been addicted a long time ago.

That's something I greatly fear because, as it is, I have a very low threshold for pain under normal circumstances. Sadly, many people will fall into that trap because when we were growing up doctors were a class of people that we were taught to trust and respect.

If you don't use painkillers (or even over the counter pain medicine, like ibuprofen), it's likely that you would need such a low dose that it wouldn't matter, because you'll be a "lightweight." I've been on oxycotin twice in my life (both for "major" surgery- one of the surgeries I was given morphine in my IV before I was sent home to lower my 190/120 blood pressure due to pain). I was able to take half to a third of the dose of oxy prescribed for half the time I was told to take it. I was hesitant to take it given the fact it makes me feel awful, but it's important to keep the cycle of pain down, because if you let the pain break through, you'll need more and need it longer. The thing is that after a major surgery you will have pain, but you shouldn't be in so much pain that you can't sleep, eat, etc. That's why you take the smallest dose you can, you set a limit for how long you're going to take it, and you buy a good pill cutter so you can decrease your dose on your own.

 

[bburtner@moran]

Well looking back into the 19th century many people were addicted to morphine,it was in many, many over the counter potions!Also the domestic violence from alcohol abuse!

 

[LizzieMaine]

The morphine addicts of the 19th century were people who developed a dependency on the drug after being over-treated with it for medical reasons. They weren't seeking it out for purposes of "mind expansion," and it wasn't something that was administered in a social setting to "get high." It wasn't culturally accepted, and there weren't organized bands of addicts marching in the street in favor of making it more available. Addiction was something tobe battled, not encouraged. It was considered a loathsome plague to be eradicated, not glamorized.

My friend was checked into a mental hospital last night. Two weeks ago she was talking about going back to school to get her Masters.

 

[sheeplady]

The morphine addicts of the 19th century were people who developed a dependency on the drug after being over-treated with it for medical reasons. They weren't seeking it out for purposes of "mind expansion," and it wasn't something that was administered in a social setting to "get high." It wasn't culturally accepted, and there weren't organized bands of addicts marching in the street in favor of making it more available. Addiction was something tobe battled, not encouraged. It was considered loathsome, not glamorized.

My friend was checked into a mental hospital last night. Two weeks ago she was talking about going back to school to get her Masters.

Now they are much, much more careful about the use of painkillers in the hospital setting. I know that you hear all sorts of stories about physicians who are "pill dealers" and I think that some of them absolutely are. My aunt (who is heavily addicted to a ton of things) certainly works the pharmacies and her and her father's doctors and she deals with some pretty immoral ones to get what she gets. But in my experience most of the doctors and nurses I have met are very careful about over prescribing. But some of this might be because I'd go running and screaming from any doctor's office who offered me pills when I didn't need them and wasn't ok with me taking a lesser dose (without good reason).

Sorry to hear your friend was checked into a mental health facility last night. There are plenty of people who come back from that sort of thing, so I hope you know there is a a lot of hope for her. I know that there is a lot of research that suggests that drugs can trigger genetic tendencies for mental illness that are already present in someone's family history (such as bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.), but the good news is that many people go on to live very successful lives even with major psychiatric illness.

 

[Atticus Finch]

If they're dropping that many milligrams and are functional, they've been addicted a long time ago.

Yes, they actually do. In fact, a twenty, by itself, won't get a hardcore pill head to first base. Just ask Rush Limbaugh. And, yes, they are addicted. But many of them will condemn a street user to being burned at the stake for tooting a tenth of a gram of flake. Again, just ask Rush Limbaugh.

AF

 

[Widebrim]

Sorry about your friend LizzieMaine,but it has and alway`s will be an evil world we live in that`s just a fact,it was no better 50 or 500 years ago!

Evil has always existed, yes, but to therefore say that the world has never been "better," is not valid, if that is what you are actually implying. Wars have always been the bane of humanity, that is true, but even so, there have been various periods of a relatively "Pax Romana." As regards the manifestation of individual evil, that has, during certain eras, been curtailed. When the state, often aided by civic and religious leaders (and I'm not speaking of a pseudo- or actual theocracy), sets up and consistently implements just but effective laws and punishments, visible evil and its effects diminish. It doesn't fail to exist, but at least it does not manifest itself as overtly.

 

[Gene]

Well this thread is enough to make me leave the Lounge, and shoot I just came back too. [huh]

I'll leave you with this:

"Prohibition is a failure as anyone can see
For whiskey is sold in every town in the good ol' USA
Oh, the policeman will arrest you, he'll lock you up in jail
He'll drink up all your liquor, and turn you out on bail.

I'm going back to Georgia, to join the drinking clan
Where whiskey is made of Red Seal Lye and sold in old tin cans
Where the men they drink and gamble, and the women quarrel and fight
And the saloons they run wide open, and a man's killed every night.

Oh the moonshiners in the mountains, they operate the stills
They're true blue to each other, what they say they'll do, they will
They all carry six-shooters, shotguns and bowie knives
And the man who tries to raid them is sure to lose his life.

Oh the city dude he makes home brew, most anyone can learn
He takes a can of old malt syrup and an old-fashioned churn
He adds a cake of yeast or two and he lets it work and foam
And a bottle or two on a Saturday night, he'll sing 'My Home Sweet Home'.

Oh at the next election, I'm sure you all will see
We'll have light wines and good ol' beer in 1933
And if we do not get it, I'm tellin' you and you
We'll make our own home liquor, and drink our old home brew."

 

[LizzieMaine]

When the state, often aided by civic and religious leaders (and I'm not speaking of a pseudo- or actual theocracy), sets up and consistently implements just but effective laws and punishments, visible evil and its effects diminish. It doesn't fail to exist, but at least it does not manifest itself as overtly.

Too often "it's always been like this" is used as an excuse by a society too weak and craven and spineless to fight back, too pasty-faced and lily-livered to stand up and stare evil in the eye. "Just leave me alone with my iPhone and my Hulu and my legalized dope, that's all I ask, don't make me question my beliefs, don't make me, god forbid, actually have to buck the tide, don't make me have to take an unpopular stand. People might not like me, it might not be any funnnnnnnn, I might lose money, I might get hurrrrrrrrrrrt."

Well,that might be good enough for the "Enlightened" 21st Century but it isn't good enough for me, and it isn't good enough for a lot of other people. If it's "always been like this," then maybe all that means is that we're long overdue for a change.

This is going to be my last post on the Lounge for a while. I have some more important things to do.

 

[jamespowers]

Too often "it's always been like this" is used as an excuse by a society too weak and craven and spineless to fight back, too pasty-faced and lily-livered to stand up and stare evil in the eye. "Just leave me alone with my iPhone and my Hulu and my legalized dope, that's all I ask, don't make me question my beliefs, don't make me, god forbid, actually have to buck the tide, don't make me have to take an unpopular stand. People might not like me, it might not be any funnnnnnnn, I might lose money, I might get hurrrrrrrrrrrt."

Well,that might be good enough for the "Enlightened" 21st Century but it isn't good enough for me, and it isn't good enough for a lot of other people. If it's "always been like this," then maybe all that means is that we're long overdue for a change.

:clap:

 

[AmateisGal]

Too often "it's always been like this" is used as an excuse by a society too weak and craven and spineless to fight back, too pasty-faced and lily-livered to stand up and stare evil in the eye. "Just leave me alone with my iPhone and my Hulu and my legalized dope, that's all I ask, don't make me question my beliefs, don't make me, god forbid, actually have to buck the tide, don't make me have to take an unpopular stand. People might not like me, it might not be any funnnnnnnn, I might lose money, I might get hurrrrrrrrrrrt."

Well,that might be good enough for the "Enlightened" 21st Century but it isn't good enough for me, and it isn't good enough for a lot of other people. If it's "always been like this," then maybe all that means is that we're long overdue for a change.

This is going to be my last post on the Lounge for a while. I have some more important things to do.

LizzieMaine for president!

Seriously. You need to write a book. You know how to tell it like it is and this world needs that.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Too often "it's always been like this" is used as an excuse by a society too weak and craven and spineless to fight back, too pasty-faced and lily-livered to stand up and stare evil in the eye. "Just leave me alone with my iPhone and my Hulu and my legalized dope, that's all I ask, don't make me question my beliefs, don't make me, god forbid, actually have to buck the tide, don't make me have to take an unpopular stand. People might not like me, it might not be any funnnnnnnn, I might lose money, I might get hurrrrrrrrrrrt."

Well,that might be good enough for the "Enlightened" 21st Century but it isn't good enough for me, and it isn't good enough for a lot of other people. If it's "always been like this," then maybe all that means is that we're long overdue for a change.

This is going to be my last post on the Lounge for a while. I have some more important things to do.

+ :eusa_clap

 

[CharleneC]

The morphine addicts of the 19th century were people who developed a dependency on the drug after being over-treated with it for medical reasons. They weren't seeking it out for purposes of "mind expansion," and it wasn't something that was administered in a social setting to "get high." It wasn't culturally accepted, and there weren't organized bands of addicts marching in the street in favor of making it more available. Addiction was something tobe battled, not encouraged. It was considered a loathsome plague to be eradicated, not glamorized.

My friend was checked into a mental hospital last night. Two weeks ago she was talking about going back to school to get her Masters.

Ever heard of an opium den?

 

[vintageTink]

I see the government being blamed for a community's lack of willpower, illegitimacy rate, illiliteracy rate, drug use, drug dealing, violent crime (rape, robbery, murder), and all sorts of ills they have chosen and foisted on themselves.
No government forced a community to do those things. To say that some unseen force compelled an entire community to do these things for over 50 years is to say that that community is weak, stupid, and ineffective. You are excusing bad behaviors and choices. You are letting the criminal elements off the hook by saying it's no fault of their own, some big bad government made them do it and they're too gullible and dumb to choose otherwise.
I lived in the ghetto. The things they do are their own choice.
Take responsibility for your own actions. Stop blaming other people.
I have no love for the government. But people make their own choices.

Lizzie, I pray your friend recovers.

I live in WA, a state that has legalized marijuana. And the recreational use of it seems to have multiplied exponentially. I have no problem with it if used with a doctor's supervision, under a doctor's care, for a specific reason. But the hippies and hipsters aren't using it for pain management.

 

[martinsantos]

An interesting discussion.

Crime, drugs, etc, always existed. But long time ago they were exceptions. And a behavior that everybody didn't think correct. That's why cocaine and marijuana were legal until 20s/30s - at least here in Brazil, don't know when in USA) but just few folks used them.

I'm really tired to see people thinking that bad behavior (violence, drugs, etc) is fine, glamurous, etc.

 

[martinsantos]

An interesting discussion.

Crime, drugs, etc, always existed. But long time ago they were exceptions. And a behavior that everybody didn't think correct. That's why cocaine and marijuana were legal until 20s/30s - at least here in Brazil, don't know when in USA) but just few folks used them.

I'm really tired to see people thinking that bad behavior (violence, drugs, etc) is fine, glamurous, etc.

 

[Feraud]

An interesting discussion.

Crime, drugs, etc, always existed. But long time ago they were exceptions. And a behavior that everybody didn't think correct. That's why cocaine and marijuana were legal until 20s/30s - at least here in Brazil, don't know when in USA) but just few folks used them.

I'm really tired to see people thinking that bad behavior (violence, drugs, etc) is fine, glamurous, etc.

This is an important distinction that many people tend to overlook. It is relevant in the U.S. with the trend of legalizing marijuana use for recreational purposes. There is a desperate grasp to justify recreational use for the majority with historical use in the minority.

What is very unfortunate is the viewing of bad behavior as common and acceptable. I've encountered a lot of people who don't hold themselves or anyone else to any type of standard. Bad behavior is merely justified.

 

[jamespowers]

This is an important distinction that many people tend to overlook. It is relevant in the U.S. with the trend of legalizing marijuana use for recreational purposes. There is a desperate grasp to justify recreational use for the majority with historical use in the minority.

What is very unfortunate is the viewing of bad behavior as common and acceptable. I've encountered a lot of people who don't hold themselves or anyone else to any type of standard. Bad behavior is merely justified.

Sociologists point out that there are cycles. That people of different generations go through ups and downs. Unfortunately every up never reaches the high standard that once preceded the low. You have sort of a ratcheting down effect until something drastic happens to return it to high standards. Events like the Great Depression was one of those. We seem to be pretty far down the cycle so far. A return to standards would be nice to see in the next generation.....but I don't see it yet.

 

[vintageTink]

Depends on how you define the next generation. If that means people in their 20's or teens, forget it! Lol