The Flat Head's Double Rider Jacket ($2k): A Steal?

[ponchovia85]

Recently copped the jacket for $2,000 USD- was a sale special from R&H. Like the jacket a lot but just curious from people if they think that is a big steal and would keep or continue to look at other jackets like RM or other top brands?

 

[Cheech]

That's a nice discount from the retail price, but I'm not sure how many will characterize $2k USD as a steal, even for a new Japanese repro. That is not to say that many of us haven't spent that money on jackets new or old--it's just that I wouldn't feel like I was being done a favor with that price.

There have been a few recent threads on Flat Head leather jacket offerings lately. In my opinion, they source the nicest Shinki, at least compared to the handful of RMC and Himel jackets that I've owned. Their stitching, though not particularly dense or extraordinary, tends to be very neat. Where they fall flat in most people's eye's is how they fit. The shoulders tend to be quite wide relative to the chest circumference, and the sleeves typically feel short if you're over 6 feet tall, even in the larger sizes. Flat Head jackets seem to be suited for thin folks with long torsos and wide shoulders.

They come up used not too infrequently albeit not as much as RMC jackets. There's currently a Flat Head cross-zip for sale here on the Classifieds for $1500, which seems like a very fair price. Given how quickly they patina and their retail price, I would be more inclined to buy used, if I were in the market.

As much as I loved the Flat Head cafe racer that I briefly owned, it really wasn't practical for me given the way it fit me. If I stood still, it appeared to fit me to a tee. That was out the window once I reached forward even in the slightest bit. As such, I ended up selling it. That said, that leather was so nice that I still consider looking for another.

After trying out multiple RMC jackets and an Iron Heart cafe racer, I've finally settled on a RMC J-22. The fit is better than anything else I've tried, and I like the design a bit more than Flat Head's offerings. The Shinki is very nice--glossy and grainy--although I sill prefer that of the Flat Head's.

In any case, if the Flat Head cross-zip is one that you hang onto, you can justify the money spent. After all, what's $2k vs $1.5k over the course of a lifetime? It's if you ultimately sell it that that $2k will feel like it could have gone to a better cause. That said, post up some pics, and show us how it fits, or provide a review. For your sake, I hope you have better luck in the fit department than many of us have had!

 

[Bfd70]

First, buy other brands if you want, but maybe just enjoy your FH. Regarding the price it may be a steal for Brand new but You’ll find most high end jackets show up on the second hand market. If you are a common size and have patience that’s where the real bargains are. For instance there is currently a FH double rider in the classifieds here for $1500.
oops you beat me To it by seconds

 

[ponchovia85]

That's a nice discount from the retail price, but I'm not sure how many will characterize $2k USD as a steal, even for a new Japanese repro. That is not to say that many of us haven't spent that money on jackets new or old--it's just that I wouldn't feel like I was being done a favor with that price.

There have been a few recent threads on Flat Head leather jacket offerings lately. In my opinion, they source the nicest Shinki, at least compared to the handful of RMC and Himel jackets that I've owned. Their stitching, though not particularly dense or extraordinary, tends to be very neat. Where they fall flat in most people's eye's is how they fit. The shoulders tend to be quite wide relative to the chest circumference, and the sleeves typically feel short if you're over 6 feet tall, even in the larger sizes. Flat Head jackets seem to be suited for thin folks with long torsos and wide shoulders.

They come up used not too infrequently albeit not as much as RMC jackets. There's currently a Flat Head cross-zip for sale here on the Classifieds for $1500, which seems like a very fair price. Given how quickly they patina and their retail price, I would be more inclined to buy used, if I were in the market.

As much as I loved the Flat Head cafe racer that I briefly owned, it really wasn't practical for me given the way it fit me. If I stood still, it appeared to fit me to a tee. That was out the window once I reached forward even in the slightest bit. As such, I ended up selling it. That said, that leather was so nice that I still consider looking for another.

After trying out multiple RMC jackets and an Iron Heart cafe racer, I've finally settled on a RMC J-22. The fit is better than anything else I've tried, and I like the design a bit more than Flat Head's offerings. The Shinki is very nice--glossy and grainy--although I sill prefer that of the Flat Head's.

In any case, if the Flat Head cross-zip is one that you hang onto, you can justify the money spent. After all, what's $2k vs $1.5k over the course of a lifetime? It's if you ultimately sell it that that $2k will feel like it could have gone to a better cause. That said, post up some pics, and show us how it fits, or provide a review. For your sake, I hope you have better luck in the fit department than many of us have had!

Thanks Cheech, appreciate the detailed feedback. I agree, no one should characterize $2k as steal really just compared to new, was the best entry point considering the tier of jackets I look for. I feel if I got my hands on a RM to try on I would probably go for one. Re: used, for RM, its just I've seen them re-sale for $2K+. I have see them for that price used for TFH so will check out the classifieds. So far, it has been the best jacket (fit wise) for me, and I do have wide shoulders considering my height and weight average so the size 38 fits me almost tailored. I live in LA so not sure what store carries RM to go and try on.

 

[ponchovia85]

That's a nice discount from the retail price, but I'm not sure how many will characterize $2k USD as a steal, even for a new Japanese repro. That is not to say that many of us haven't spent that money on jackets new or old--it's just that I wouldn't feel like I was being done a favor with that price.

There have been a few recent threads on Flat Head leather jacket offerings lately. In my opinion, they source the nicest Shinki, at least compared to the handful of RMC and Himel jackets that I've owned. Their stitching, though not particularly dense or extraordinary, tends to be very neat. Where they fall flat in most people's eye's is how they fit. The shoulders tend to be quite wide relative to the chest circumference, and the sleeves typically feel short if you're over 6 feet tall, even in the larger sizes. Flat Head jackets seem to be suited for thin folks with long torsos and wide shoulders.

They come up used not too infrequently albeit not as much as RMC jackets. There's currently a Flat Head cross-zip for sale here on the Classifieds for $1500, which seems like a very fair price. Given how quickly they patina and their retail price, I would be more inclined to buy used, if I were in the market.

As much as I loved the Flat Head cafe racer that I briefly owned, it really wasn't practical for me given the way it fit me. If I stood still, it appeared to fit me to a tee. That was out the window once I reached forward even in the slightest bit. As such, I ended up selling it. That said, that leather was so nice that I still consider looking for another.

After trying out multiple RMC jackets and an Iron Heart cafe racer, I've finally settled on a RMC J-22. The fit is better than anything else I've tried, and I like the design a bit more than Flat Head's offerings. The Shinki is very nice--glossy and grainy--although I sill prefer that of the Flat Head's.

In any case, if the Flat Head cross-zip is one that you hang onto, you can justify the money spent. After all, what's $2k vs $1.5k over the course of a lifetime? It's if you ultimately sell it that that $2k will feel like it could have gone to a better cause. That said, post up some pics, and show us how it fits, or provide a review. For your sake, I hope you have better luck in the fit department than many of us have had!

 

[ponchovia85]

First, buy other brands if you want, but maybe just enjoy your FH. Regarding the price it may be a steal for Brand new but You’ll find most high end jackets show up on the second hand market. If you are a common size and have patience that’s where the real bargains are. For instance there is currently a FH double rider in the classifieds here for $1500.
oops you beat me To it by seconds

Point taken, maybe I should be happy with this and enjoy it. Has been a "journey" getting to this point as I went thru 3 years of finding one I would be happy with. Will check out the $1500 one. I do want to know how a RM would compare to this fit and feel wise but Cheech gave a pretty good comparison of that.

 

[Marc mndt]

Their stitching, though not particularly dense or extraordinary, tends to be very neat.

Seriously? I'd say from all the high end (expensive might be a better word) makers TFH is the absolute worst in terms of neatness. (Not saying they're all like this, but I've seen many bad ones)

 

[Bfd70]

Scrutinizing stitches closely would take all of the joy out of jackets for me.

 

[ponchovia85]

Hey @Marc mndt what’s your opinion on the stitching here?

 

[Marc mndt]

Scrutinizing stitches closely would take all of the joy out of jackets for me.

That may be so, but if someone calls TFH's stitching neat, having a closer look at their stitching is the natural thing to do.

 

[Cheech]

I'll concede the point on stitching to @Marc mndt. He's definitely more knowledgeable than me in this regard and probably most all regards when it comes to leather jackets. I only have the one Flat Head jacket as experience. I'm also referencing memories of when Flat Head was more highly regarded here. (All of the main brands become a focal point of criticism here at some point.)

All of that side, your jacket fits you really well, @ponchovia85, at least as far as I can tell from the photos. That's no small feat! I'm afraid that I don't know if/where you can get your hands on RMC jackets locally. AFAIK, Standard & Strange is the closest stockist. I will say that, if you're a size 38 in Flat Head, you're probably pretty close to that in most RMC models. Moreover, if you look on Japan's Yahoo Auction site, you will find used RMC jackets in that size range all day for sometimes extraordinary prices.

 

[Bfd70]

That may be so, but if someone calls TFH's stitching neat, having a closer look at their stitching is the natural thing to do.

Wasn’t a shot at you. Just a personal ethos.

 

[Aloysius]

Scrutinizing stitches closely would take all of the joy out of jackets for me.

I agree but the the people who usually do that make a cult of the objective superiority of Japanese made products, so it’s mildly entertaining to see the same analysis turned onto them. (I think stitch counting and such are generally pointless.)

 

[Cheech]

Although I'm no stitch counter, I can definitely appreciate that the flaws that Mark pointed out in those Flat Head examples pale in comparison to the flaws that I've personally seen in my Aero and Johnson Leather jackets as well as Vansons that I've handled/owned. That doesn't preclude my interest in them. Heck, I've got a new Aero on the way via Thurston Bros. Of course, the OP expressed interest in how his Flat Head might differ from, say, an RMC, so it's only fair to point out how Flat Head compares to other like Japanese products, as Mark did.

I do think that we tend to go through phases of intense and perhaps undeserved praise for some makers in tandem with focused scrutiny of others. In the years that I've followed this forum, I've seen that happen with Lost Worlds, Aero, Diamond Dave, Goodwear, Eastman, Himel, and Flat Head, to name a few. As a guitar enthusiast, I see a parallel tendency within that community, too. Just the other night, I was reading about a guy who makes boutique resonators up in Michigan. I had bought one from him about 5 years ago, back when he was a one-man show and the darling of a certain subset of musicians. The guitar was magnificent, although it had a couple of very minor flaws. I ended up selling it a couple of years later, not because it wasn't an incredible instrument, but because I didn't want $3k tied up in a guitar that I could really only play slide on. Unfortunately, I only go $2k in the sale. Now, they go for twice that. As it turned out, the post that I had read centered on one customer's dissatisfaction with the quality of the guitar that he had waited nearly a year for. Was his experience revealing of the maker, or was it anomalous? I don't know, but he certainly planted a seed of doubt that was borne forward by other members of the forum.

My feeling is that, when you buy a luxury product, the value should be something that you can internalize as intrinsic to that product. Thus, if the market turns and devalues your product, you do not perceive a loss in value. When I look to buy jackets, my top priorities are function, style, fit, cost, materials (including leather), and construction (including stitching quality), roughly in that order. As it turns out, my biggest concern over building a house of cards vis a vis my wardrobe is not that I will learn that I've invested in price-inflated, poorly stitched jackets--my disposable income will constrain the degree of such an outcome. It's that my style will change, much as when I lost my shirt selling that resonator.

 

[Hh121]

https://www.reddit.com/r/RedWingShoes/comments/sn40aj