The fall of proper restaurant service.

[$ally]

OK, so, last night during a romantic dinner, I gagged on a lemon seed from my drink, right in front of my date. I excused myself to the powder room, where I could openly hack like a cat with a hairball. Pardon my inappropriately graphic description. I eventually swallowed the seed, so I hope I don't start sprouting. That's the second time this month.
Then I thought, wow, I don't know how to save face from this one. I just had to go with it, handling a blundering moment that never should have happened. My date was a complete gentleman as always.
I will no longer take a lemon wedge with my water, in order to be a true lady. There was a day when the help in upscale establishments removed the seeds. I've noticed that most restaurants no longer put the lemon half (to accompany shellfish) in cloth either. So it squirts and drops seeds. Rarely a finger bowl to be seen. Incomplete place settings. Don't culinary schools teach etiquette any longer? I can only be so refined without the proper tools.

 

[Diamondback]

Depends on the restaurant, probably--I wouldn't know too much about "fine dining" as my usual places are either in the Shari's/Denny's/Shoneys/IHOP class or are local mom 'n' pop places, so maybe I'm just used to a lower standard.

There's also probably been some "simplification" of policies, practices and procedures at higher-end places to shave labor expenses. ([voice=MBA stuffed-shirt]"Gotta maximize that profit-to-revenue ratio, you know!"[/voice] Hopefully my being an ex-business major won't be considered an "unforgivable sin"...)

 

[Undertow]

Yeah, I know what you mean in cutting corners. Honestly, in today's society, service is 50% of what determines my desire to return to a restaurant. They may have great food and great ambience, but I've totally stopped going to about three nice restaurants in town because they had consistently lousy service.

It's one thing to be picky about your food and require expensive dining. It's another thing to simply have poor service. Poor service can ruin a great meal.

 

[staggerwing]

Am I the only one that's noticed waiters no longer come over and discreetly inguire if everything is ok? Now, even in upscale places, they wait until you have a mouthful of food, then shout "How's it tastin' guys?" Good grief. I usually retort, "It ain't tastin' anything. It's dead."

 

[Diamondback]

Staggerwing, I've noticed that too--not just making that inquiry, but any question is ALWAYS timed for right when you've just taken in a big mouthful of chow.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Our experience is usually pretty good...

...Our local places usually have pretty good service. About the worst we usually see is when you get the young person in training. Some of the local, single location places are quite good.

 

[Undertow]

Yeah, I think that's just laziness on their part. They're required to ask so they buzz right by as soon as you've taken your first or second bite, get it out of the way and then *bam* they're gone.

In my experience, after the first question, you're lucky to get your water refilled.

 

[Starius]

I must be lucky for that in my neck of the woods, I can't say I have any complaints in service at the local restaurants I visit.

 

[panamag8or]

I ate lunch at a place yesterday, and the service was good. The server helped me with recommendations, brought my food promptly, and knew better than to interrupt my meal with the "How is it" query. She could tell I liked it, because I hardly came up for air. She waited until she dropped off the check (which was after I finished my meal, but before I had to ask for it) to ask me how my meal was. As a result, I left her a sizable tip... nearly half my bill.

This is not the norm where I live, as most servers are college students, and consider you to be an inconvenience or an interruption in their cell phone conversation.














BTW: this wasn't at some snooty restaurant, it was at a drugstore lunch counter/fountain. With service like that, no wonder they have been in business for 70 years.

 

[carter]

Originally posted by $ally
Don't culinary schools teach etiquette any longer?

Most service personnel are not trained in culinary schools. They are trained where they work. The length and complexity of their training will vary (widely) depending on the establismen's training curriculum.
The finer points of dining have, unfortunately, all but disappeared in many, but not all, establishments. As has been observed, much of this is due to cost-saving measures.
My advice is to find an establishment that meets or exceeds your standards and then frequent it. Hopefully, this will help them stay in business.
Finally, the dumbing down of the dining experience is a result of the American public being willing to accept a lesser standard of service than one would have expected in the past. We get what we are willing to accept.

 

[panamag8or]

Most service personnel are not trained in culinary schools. They are trained where they work. The length and complexity of their training will vary (widely) depending on the establismen's training curriculum.
The finer points of dining have, unfortunately, all but disappeared in many, but not all, establishments. As has been observed, much of this is due to cost-saving measures.
My advice is to find an establishment that meets or exceeds your standards and then frequent it. Hopefully, this will help them stay in business.
Finally, the dumbing down of the dining experience is a result of the American public being willing to accept a lesser standard of service than one would have expected in the past. We get what we are willing to accept.

This all goes hand-in-hand with the general decline in the standards of the diners, as well.

 

[John in Covina]

It seems to me that there should be some info available. When i worked for JC Pennys in the Shoe dept i got to see a video about sales service and how to properly measure feet with the Brannick Device. (They said seated not standing by the way.) It seems to me that the chain restaurants could have a video for their employees.

 

[carter]

It seems to me that the chain restaurants could have a video for their employees.

Some do and some do not. It all depends on the chain.

 

[Diamondback]

I must be lucky for that in my neck of the woods, I can't say I have any complaints in service at the local restaurants I visit.

I can pretty much say the same thing--complaint usually means no second visit, and the folks at my usual place take pretty good care of me. (Then again, I also have platinum-customer status AND the manager asks me for advice on some things... lol )

 

[Tango Yankee]

She waited until she dropped off the check (which was after I finished my meal, but before I had to ask for it)

It's funny, the differences between cultures. Here in the US the check gets brought to you without you asking for it (usually) and often is slapped down on the table with the food. When stationed over in Europe I was told that it would be considered rude of the waitstaff to bring you your bill before you asked for it--like they were shoving you out the door. Of course, back here in the US that's exactly what they're doing--gotta turn those tables, get you out and someone else in.

Finally, the dumbing down of the dining experience is a result of the American public being willing to accept a lesser standard of service than one would have expected in the past. We get what we are willing to accept.

And I'm sure that someone has or will do a study linking that trend directly to the introduction and proliferation of fast food establishments, where you are expected to stand in line to order and pay for your food, usually get your own drink, wait for your tray of food to be handed to you to carry to your table, you collect your own condiments, straws, napkins (serviette) and then, after you've unwrapped and eaten your food, they expect you to clean up after yourself--bus the table, dispose of the trash, return the tray. No wonder waitstaff in "full service" restaruants get testy when you expect them to do that stuff-they don't think it's their job any more.

Cheers,
TOm

 

[Starius]

And I'm sure that someone has or will do a study linking that trend directly to the introduction and proliferation of fast food establishments, where you are expected to stand in line to order and pay for your food, usually get your own drink, wait for your tray of food to be handed to you to carry to your table, you collect your own condiments, straws, napkins (serviette) and then, after you've unwrapped and eaten your food, they expect you to clean up after yourself--bus the table, dispose of the trash, return the tray. No wonder waitstaff in "full service" restaruants get testy when you expect them to do that stuff-they don't think it's their job any more.

Cheers,
TOm

You know, now that I think about it. I have friends, good respectable friends, who prefer to go to fast food restaurants because they don't like to even go to a place where they may have to wait for a table. We went to a place once and waited for a free table for 5 minutes and then one of them couldn't wait any longer so we went to a Arbys or something. I was rather surprised at the sudden change of plans. I have no problem waiting at a place for a decent meal.

 

[Tomasso]

stand in line to order and pay for your food, usually get your own drink, wait for your tray of food to be handed to you to carry to your table, you collect your own condiments, straws, napkins (serviette) and then, after you've unwrapped and eaten your food, they expect you to clean up after yourself--bus the table, dispose of the trash, return the tray.

That describes the Chipotle Mexican Grill that I ate at the other day. They also had a tip jar prominently displayed at the register. lol

 

[carter]

Originally Posted by Tango Yankee
It's funny, the differences between cultures. Here in the US the check gets brought to you without you asking for it (usually) and often is slapped down on the table with the food. When stationed over in Europe I was told that it would be considered rude of the waitstaff to bring you your bill before you asked for it--like they were shoving you out the door. Of course, back here in the US that's exactly what they're doing--gotta turn those tables, get you out and someone else in.

This is a perfect example of poor management coupled with training so poorly that potential profit, not to mention guest satisfaction, goes right out the window.
Imagine how much more revenue there is per guest when the server sells an after-dinner cocktail, cup of coffee, and dessert to a guest. Trust me, on an incremental basis it can be LARGE. Any restauranteur with half a brain knows the value of SALES and UPSELLING.
Now add the value of a satisfied guest who leaves with a positive attitude. The repeat business, word-of-mouth referrals, etc. are invaluable. It costs a lot less to create a loyal patron than it does to advertise for new ones. But, once you lose someone's patronage, you also lose all those intangible benefits as well. And...they potentially incur some negative word-of-mouth advertising as well. These are the "costs" that many in the business fail to consider. And people wonder why so many new restaurant ventures fail annually. This isn't the only reason, but it can be a contributing factor.
My advice to the "Let's turn 'em and burn 'em." folks in the food service industry is to keep it up. Hopefully they'll be out of business while the folks who really care about guest satisfaction are still going strong.

 

[beaucaillou]

Having worked in fine dining establishments for the past 7 years, I have to say that to most guests the finer points of service and dining are completely lost. Often when one of my servers offers a black napkin to a guest wearing black slacks, the guest looks up, confused, and says "...why?" Or often guests will use all of their coursed silver just to eat an amuse bouche (this happens); then you really have to wonder at the state of modern diners.

That said, I think that what is being defined in this thread as a "nicer" establishment, is entirely relative. I can think of a good number of national, corporate high-end fish houses and steak houses that still provide classically styled service. I can also think of a good number of privately owned high-end establishments that consider points of service that most guests are unfamiliar with/uncertain how to interpret.

The art of srvice is dying you say? I say the art of dining is dying.
But not entirely, on either front.

 

[$ally]

That said, I think that what is being defined in this thread as a "nicer" establishment, is entirely relative. I can think of a good number of national, corporate high-end fish houses and steak houses that still provide classically styled service. I can also think of a good number of privately owned high-end establishments that consider points of service that most guests are unfamiliar with/uncertain how to interpret.
The art of srvice is dying you say? I say the art of dining is dying.
But not entirely, on either front.

Very good points!
It was the poor presentation that disappointed us most.
Our next romantic dinner out will be here (where we've always had a wonderful experience): http://www.chart-house.com/menu.html
Although fine dining is special occasion date night, I prefer to stay home and cook most regular nights. I don't always have time to create a masterpiece.