The Evolution From “Need” To “Want”

[Edward]

Personally i don't care about social status or the fact that these things are expensive, if anything i am actually a bit embarrassed by the cost of some of them...
For me the constant quest for the next jacket is a fun mix of obsessive compulsive personality, addiction, and a "collector mind" that i don't fully understand yet.

A lot of what I see in folks who spec, buy and quickly sell on jackets reminds me of the vintaged car scene: for a lot of guys there, it's all about building the car, getting it 'right'.... and once it's had a couple of seasons where all it needs is driven, they get mored and want the next project. Difference there being most of the car guys get back what they spent or more!

Edit: according to Freud, collecting is linked to loss of bowel control as a child, and "collectors are trying to gain back control of their bowels"...
Not sure how i feel about that!

Meh. Freud was impotent and had a screwed up relationship with his mother. He was in no position to be telling us what's wrong with us.

If there's anything to do with social status , I imagine it's really small. Like less than 1% of the whole equation. The members here don't seem to be after that at all.

I don't get the impression there are many here who seek the 'approval' of the herd, though that can happen just as easily within niche communities as with the mainstream.

I'm weird. My whole thing is paranoia over the idea of globalization, collapsing economies, and the eventual dissolution of artisinal goods. Or prices going up, which they sure are. Hence the need to collect asap. But as I said, I don't "need" jackets. But they do make me feel better!

I do believe there's a lot to be said for supporting local, niche makers, keeping individuality and creativity alive and reducing airmiles (as distinct from the 'Buy X, Salute The Flag' mentality).

The need / want thing is interesting, really. To some extent, if we all went purely utilitarian, we'd all be wearing the same modern wonder-fabric onesie in either Winter or Summer weight. Most of us in these parts, however, also care what we look like. Some folks have one look that they see as 'them', while others of us seek more variety. I've seen both in leather jackets- the guys who seek a dozen different looks, and the guys who have a dozen near identical jackets. As long as its not taking over to an unhealthy degree (I have some experience of having a hoarding problem, though not so much in relation to jackets),I see no big deal.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I don't get the impression there are many here who seek the 'approval' of the herd, though that can happen just as easily within niche communities as with the mainstream.

Yes. But I think the way it can work more often in niche communities is as a variation of virtue signalling - I am better than the unsophisticated mall shoppers who wear sloppy, tasteless and modern dross, while I wear tasteful and infinitely superior period suits/leather jackets/hats.

 

[zebedee]

It's amusing that durable, well-made things (which you should, presumably, only need one or two of, for long periods) can become addicting acquisitions. Perhaps that is part of what causes the irritation. You have too many of these things and they don't shine in use.

 

[Edward]

Yes. But I think the way it can work more often in niche communities is as a variation of virtue signalling - I am better than the unsophisticated mall shoppers who wear sloppy, tasteless and modern dross, while I wear tasteful and infinitely superior period suits/leather jackets/hats.

You'll certainly find that in pockets of the vintage thing, most especially, in my experience, among folks who seek an active return to an imagined perfect era, "before women and ethnics got uppity".

 

[TheMarriedHermit]

What I'd like to know is, why the want?

It's not a want; it's a psychological necessity we inherited from our hunting and gathering ancestors. Women did the gathering, and if you watch them shop you'll see that they browse through every shelf and rack as though looking through the bushes and undergrowth for mushrooms and berries. Men were the hunters--we tracked and followed and brought the game down. Every once in a while we feel the ancient urge to hunt and to drag that hide home.

 

[DaveProc]

For me, it is a mix of want and need. I grew up in an old thrifty New England family and purchases of "want" were frowned upon as either unnecessary expenses or attempts at being "flashy" . You bought good quality sturdy items that you needed or you had them passed down until they wore out, they were purely utilitarian. As I have gotten older and made my way in the world and worked hard for what I have all of my unique purchases are a reflection of this, some are utilitarian fitting a need and also a want, for example Red Wing or White's boots, which I trust will be well made, sturdy and long lasting while fitting a specific style or aesthetic I am looking for. Others are purely out of want, I work hard for my money and will damn-well be spending on what ever I am obsessed with at the time, preferring an retro style that it well crafted or a vintage item that is well crafted and fits a specific look I like, for example many styles of modern retro and vintage hats, or leather or tweed jackets that sit in my closet.

 

[Sloan1874]

I think it's interesting how people view owning multiple versions of a design. It's like people who own a dozen A-2s or seven Cafe Racers. My other half thinks the idea of owning more than one version of a jacket is weird, especially when it comes to A-2s. Personally, I think there's enough variation in cut, colour and details to justify up to three without seeming to have the multiples of the same jacket.

 

[Monitor]

Personally, I think there's enough variation in cut, colour and details to justify up to three without seeming to have the multiples of the same jacket.

Agreed, though some people genuinely don't, or rather can't see it that way. I had many cafe racer jackets that were, in my opinion, profoundly different in both color and details, yet still many people around me would think it's all the same jacket that I always had. Whenever I would present my new CR acquisition to some of my friends, they would often comment "That's the one without the collar, I've seen it already!". . .

 

[Sloan1874]

I think it comes down to how somebody views the jacket. If they think an A-2 is a simple brown jacket with a shirt collar, knits and patch pockets, and that's an end to it, then to own more than one is probably a waste of time. Once you start to appreciate the different cuts of the various contracts, the presence or absence of collar stands, collar and pocket shapes, colours etc, you realise that there's a world of difference between a late war Aero and say a pre-War Werber.

 

[zebedee]

I don't own more than one type of any jacket- I'd be in real trouble if I started down that path...

 

[ton312]

Lately I'm struggling to understand why I own any leather jacket. And even more so why I continue to want them. When the weather finally gets cold enough for them I still push the limit of wearing just a t shirt as far as I can. If its over 40 degrees I have a very hard time justifying a jacket at all. Then there's that guy that wears shorts year round. Thankfully, I'll never be that guy...but we aren't that different. It's just he has crocs and I don't. If I lived anywhere that never saw a real winter there's no way I'd even give a jacket a second thought. I'm also a natural born sweater. I do love the look and feel of them. And prancing around indoors with them on. Then when it's gets real and I need them...f that thing...

 

[Seb Lucas]

I think it comes down to how somebody views the jacket. If they think an A-2 is a simple brown jacket with a shirt collar, knits and patch pockets, and that's an end to it, then to own more than one is probably a waste of time. Once you start to appreciate the different cuts of the various contracts, the presence or absence of collar stands, collar and pocket shapes, colours etc, you realise that there's a world of difference between a late war Aero and say a pre-War Werber.

I think that's how any kind of fanatical interest or chronic enthusiasm works. People who are into trains for instance, really get into every variety of the diesel electric, from a tiny variation in the lights, to a subtle difference in the windows. The civilian just sees trains. Quite properly, I suspect. Some of us are jacket spotters.

 

[ton312]

Some of us are jacket spotters.

Fixation is a strange phenomenon I guess. Somehow jackets seem really strange to me. Can't wrap my brain around it. I say this as a card carrying, flag toting, victim.

 

[Sloan1874]

I've never owned tried wearing various types of trains, so I couldn't comment on that. I have however owned and worn various contracts of A-2s that were were different colours, lengths and fits, and I could pick them out of a line-up easily!

 

[navetsea]

It's not a want; it's a psychological necessity we inherited from our hunting and gathering ancestors. Women did the gathering, and if you watch them shop you'll see that they browse through every shelf and rack as though looking through the bushes and undergrowth for mushrooms and berries. Men were the hunters--we tracked and followed and brought the game down. Every once in a while we feel the ancient urge to hunt and to drag that hide home.

I don't know about dragging any hide home, but
I do like to track that shipped parcel closely silently, and once it fell on my hand, I stab it, cut it, disembowel it mercilessly, with serrated car key to inflict maximum pain.

 

[TheMarriedHermit]

I don't know about dragging any hide home, but
I do like to track that shipped parcel closely silently, and once it fell on my hand, I stab it, cut it, disembowel it mercilessly, with serrated car key to inflict maximum pain.

It's alright as long as you don't cackle maniacally while you do all that. That would be crossing the line into some mighty dark territory.

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[Superfluous]

I think that's how any kind of fanatical interest or chronic enthusiasm works. People who are into trains for instance, really get into every variety of the diesel electric, from a tiny variation in the lights, to a subtle difference in the windows. The civilian just sees trains. Quite properly, I suspect. Some of us are jacket spotters.

Exactly. I am a fan of Panerai watches. Most people perceive all Panerais as looking identical, and cannot distinguish one model from another. I see vast differences between the individual models.

I am definitely a jacket spotter . . . and a watch spotter . . . sports car spotter . . . I could continue ad nauseam. I need therapy!

 

[Sloan1874]

One of my small ambitions is to own a Panerai watch. I know nothing about watches, beyond the basic stuff, but I really love the way they look.

 

[jonesy86]

Between handymike’s hunting and gathering screen grabs of jackets, and Seb’s jacket spotting I just may survive the winter.


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[Edward]

Those Paneris look nice, but oh, my, the price! If I was ever going to sink serious money into a watch, a Tudor Submariner would appeal; solid, high quality, nice - all the design of the Rolex but without the baggage of the Rolex brand. Which, yes, I know it'as intended to be the budget version of, but still it has an allure for me that the Rolex doesn't. Thisside of a lottery win, though, I'm happy with my Invicta take on the style. More likely, at some point if I can bring myself to pump several hundred into a watch it'll be one of the automatic versions of the Hamilton Ventura. I like the Ventura's style, but for a long time they were off my radar as I don't like battery-powered or quartz timepieces. Then they introduced a mechanical version. This has a strong appeal for me - ticks my mechanical box, I love the design.... and there's a certain appeal to the oddity of taking what was the first electronic watch on the market and reworking it with the kind of movement it was designed to replace.

As to different jacket types.... I think you're either a person to whom certain details matter, or you're not. To my mother, cars are 'a red one' or 'a blue one' and such; two cars the same colour are more or less wholly interchangeable to her. Of course, we're all detail oriented about something or other. I see difference in leather jackets, boots, most clothes that drive Herself up the wall; on the other hand, some years ago I saw a couple of Sex PIstols gigs where Goldie was the support act. Goldie does electronic dance music (drum and bass? Jungle? Some one of the subdivisions anyhow). For me it was thirty minutes of the same bass riff with some bleeps, but I'm sure to somebody into it it's wholly different and I'm just some old fart who doesn't get it (which is probably as it should be, really). I do tend to find that when it comes to collecting, there is a classic gender split. In the music world, it was always known as "boy collecting" and "girl collecting". Girl collecting: 'I love this band, I have all their albums. Except that last one - I didn't like it.' Boy collecting: 'I have all the albums. Six copies of each, including this very rare version - look, see there's only a side A on the record. Twelve hundred of these were made and most were sent back to be replaced, but I kept these six as collector's pieces... Oh, no, I never listen to that other one, because it's rubbish - that was their last album. I have all three formats on which it was released in my collection....' Autism is not entirely a male condition, but it's notable that the vast, vast majority of cases are male.

In terms of how we justify things, the guitar world is always good for a laugh. A lot of guys there will blow on endlessly about how they 'need' a dozen different styles of guitars with different pickups, woods, details, to create their (I kid you not) "palette of sound".... and then they plug them in to a dozen different pedals to change the sound, and crank the amplifier to extreme distortion so every single one of them sounds exactly the same....